Why didn't the ticket machine find "St Pancras"?

[frankmoh]

Today I tried to buy a ticket between St Pancras and Stratford International. Dunno why. The thing is though, I couldn't. The ticket machine would physically not let me search up St Pancras station.

The ticket machine would also not let me search up St Pancras in general, even though it has Southeastern services stopping at it and I was at a Southeastern station.

Why though?

 

[Hadders]

Were you trying to do this at St Pancras or somewhere else using 'tickets from another station'? You might've needed to use London Terminals rather than ST Pancras.

In any case, a paper ticket for this journey is normally more expensive. Oyster or contactless will be cheaper unless the journey is between 16:00-19:00 and you have an appropriate railcard.

 

[frankmoh]

Were you trying to do this at St Pancras or somewhere else using 'tickets from another station'? You might've needed to use London Terminals rather than ST Pancras.

In any case, a paper ticket for this journey is normally more expensive. Oyster or contactless will be cheaper unless the journey is between 16:00-19:00 and you have an appropriate railcard.

I was doing it at my local station, well away from Zone 1. I don't know why they couldn't just let you search up St Pancras and have it redirect to London Termini.

I just wanted to see how much a ticket would cost between the two stations because on the Southeastern map it says "Specific fares apply on this route."

 

[Hadders]

BRfares.com is better for looking up fares than faffing around with a ticket machine.

 

[frankmoh]

BRfares.com is better for looking up fares than faffing around with a ticket machine.

I'm sure it is. I don't even know why I wanted to get a paper ticket between the two stations. Maybe HS1 just deserves it.

How old are those ticket machines anyway? Those fading LCD screens have got to be at least 2010, if not before.

 

[bcarmicle]

Did you try entering "London St Pancras" rather than "St Pancras" (or vice versa)? That would be my guess as to what went wrong; you never know which one it'll want.

 

[frankmoh]

Did you try entering "London St Pancras" rather than "St Pancras" (or vice versa)? That would be my guess as to what went wrong; you never know which one it'll want.

I think that may be it. You'd think it would be just "St Pancras" given how its Southeastern. I wonder where the non-London St Pancras is then.

 

[Haywain]

I think that may be it. You'd think it would be just "St Pancras" given how its Southeastern. I wonder where the non-London St Pancras is then.

The station’s name is London St Pancras International. It seems reasonable to expect that it will be used in that form.

 

[zero]

I think that may be it. You'd think it would be just "St Pancras" given how its Southeastern. I wonder where the non-London St Pancras is then.

Well next time you pass that type of machine again, see if you need to enter London Cannon St or if it just accepts Charing Cross (not the Glasgow one )

 

[Starmill]

You'd think it would be just "St Pancras" given how its Southeastern. I wonder where the non-London St Pancras is then.

If you try the Southeastern website, it won't accept just St Pancras on its own, but helpfully, if you type that in and press enter, it will auto complete you to the full name of the station. This is the same to all of the London Terminals stations with London prefixes, you can try at https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/

 

[PeterC]

The station’s name is London St Pancras International. It seems reasonable to expect that it will be used in that form.

How many non rail fans in southern England will think of it as anything the than just "St Pancras"?

 

[styles]

How many non rail fans in southern England will think of it as anything the than just "St Pancras"?

Not even that, but even I find it a (minor) pet peeve when websites do this. If I want to select Euston, I should be able to get there by just typing Eust and then it appears in the list (ok actually because the station code is EUS this one often works fine). People searching for Waterloo are probably quite likely to just start typing Waterloo, rather than London Waterloo.

It's not the biggest issue in the world, but it's a simple UX task to improve.

Plus if this turns out to be the reason @frankmoh couldn't get a ticket, then even seasoned rail enthusiasts are caught out by it.

 

[dastocks]

I had a similar issue last week buying a ticket from the south coast. After a few attempts I went for London Bridge as a destination knowing that I have been issued a London Thameslink ticket in the past. It was only then that I was able to choose between London Bridge or London Thameslink.

A couple of hours later I downloaded the SNCB mobile app, registered and purchased a ticket to get me from Brussels Midi to Antwerp. It was so simple and easy ...

 

[TheTallOne]

I had the same issue last year trying to buy a ticket to Waterloo.

Ended up having to buy the ticket at the counter. How's that for progress eh!

It would be much easier if it let you search for Waterloo and then substitute that for London Stations.

How am I to know what London Stations means (and that it even exists!).

 

[AlterEgo]

I had the same issue last year trying to buy a ticket to Waterloo.

Ended up having to buy the ticket at the counter. How's that for progress eh!

It would be much easier if it let you search for Waterloo and then substitute that for London Stations.

How am I to know what London Stations means (and that it even exists!).

Surely the destination it’s looking for is London Waterloo? It will sell you a ticket to London Terminals, but you need to input the name of the station correctly first. I agree this is a big UI problem though, it’s really not acceptable.

 

[Hadders]

A couple of hours later I downloaded the SNCB mobile app, registered and purchased a ticket to get me from Brussels Midi to Antwerp. It was so simple and easy ...

Did you search for Midi? Or Brussels?....

 

[dastocks]

Did you search for Midi? Or Brussels?....

Brussels, and then selected Midi/Zuid from a drop-down list. Midi also gets you there (in french, as Brux.-Midi), Zuid finds a very long list (mostly Tram stops) but the Flemish Brus,-Zuid is probably in the list somewhere.

 

[talldave]

I had a similar issue last week buying a ticket from the south coast. After a few attempts I went for London Bridge as a destination knowing that I have been issued a London Thameslink ticket in the past. It was only then that I was able to choose between London Bridge or London Thameslink.

A couple of hours later I downloaded the SNCB mobile app, registered and purchased a ticket to get me from Brussels Midi to Antwerp. It was so simple and easy ...

Surely you should have searched for London London Bridge??!!

Seriously though, it's quite frankly pathetic that this far into the 21st century you can't enter "pancras" and get an immediate hit. TfL are just as useless as the TOCs and judging by the admonishing "you should be using London ...." responses on here, the industry just doesn't care that it's stuck in the dark ages. See it, Suck It Up, Ain't ever going to be sorted....

 

[Starmill]

Not even that, but even I find it a (minor) pet peeve when websites do this. If I want to select Euston, I should be able to get there by just typing Eust and then it appears in the list (ok actually because the station code is EUS this one often works fine). People searching for Waterloo are probably quite likely to just start typing Waterloo, rather than London Waterloo.

It's not the biggest issue in the world, but it's a simple UX task to improve.

Plus if this turns out to be the reason @frankmoh couldn't get a ticket, then even seasoned rail enthusiasts are caught out by it.

In Southeastern's case just typing in "Waterl" or "Eust" does bring up the correct suggestion immediately on the website. However it sounds like the ticket machine input is far less useful. The S&B software if it was one of those is very dated nowadays.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==

Surely you should have searched for London London Bridge??!!

Seriously though, it's quite frankly pathetic that this far into the 21st century you can't enter "pancras" and get an immediate hit. TfL are just as useless as the TOCs and judging by the admonishing "you should be using London ...." responses on here, the industry just doesn't care that it's stuck in the dark ages. See it, Suck It Up, Ain't ever going to be sorted....

Just Pancras on its own and then enter does work on the Southeastern website, at least. The machines are not great for user interface at all though

 

[styles]

In Southeastern's case just typing in "Waterl" or "Eust" does bring up the correct suggestion immediately on the website. However it sounds like the ticket machine input is far less useful. The S&B software if it was one of those is very dated nowadays.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==


Just Pancras on its own and then enter does work on the Southeastern website, at least. The machines are not great for user interface at all though

Yeah I find most operator websites are fine these days.

Realtimetrains only seemed to recently do text matches on anything other than the start of the station name. Unless I'm imagining it, you needed to put in 'London K' to get to Kings Cross. Now it appears to have some odd logic because if you type 'Kings ', it will show Kings Langley, Kings Lynn, Kings Norton, Kings Nympton, Kings Park - makes sense, all ABC ordered. If you type 'Kings C', then it shows London Kings Cross.Of course if you type 'London K', it comes up straight away.

Edit: I realise now this is a result of 'London Kings Cross' coming after 'Kings _' in ABC order, doh! Though this one is odd:


Confusingly, London St Pancras International on RTT is in merely as 'St Pancras International', so if you search for 'London' or even 'London St' it won't come up.

One minor aside on this is I find that the search relying on correct punctuation (or lack thereof) a bit over an oversight. RTT and Southeastern both required "Kings Cross", but I can imagine some people trying "King's Cross", and it doesn't work.

 

[OscarH]

Surely you should have searched for London London Bridge??!!

Seriously though, it's quite frankly pathetic that this far into the 21st century you can't enter "pancras" and get an immediate hit. TfL are just as useless as the TOCs and judging by the admonishing "you should be using London ...." responses on here, the industry just doesn't care that it's stuck in the dark ages. See it, Suck It Up, Ain't ever going to be sorted....

Indeed, even on ancient hardware you could do that kind of matching instantaneously.

Ranking those after finding them is a more interesting problem - my favourites are Ford (surfacing many things ending ford with more passengers), and another favourite is Pic surfacing Pickford Bus above Manchester Piccadilly

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Ranking those after finding them is a more interesting problem - my favourites are Ford (surfacing many things ending ford with more passengers), and another favourite is Pic surfacing Pickford Bus above Manchester Piccadilly

'Pickering Bus', surely?

 

[OscarH]

'Pickering Bus', surely?

Oops, that's an embarrassing typo!

 

[Haywain]

Though this one is odd:

What is odd about that? Fenny Stratford is on top because it's a direct match for the three letter code for that station.

 

[styles]

What is odd about that? Fenny Stratford is on top because it's a direct match for the three letter code for that station.

Yes but then why is London Fenchurch Street before Church Fenton?

 

[TUC]

The station’s name is London St Pancras International. It seems reasonable to expect that it will be used in that form.

There is no reason to expect customers to know the official name of a station, especially not when it is in a non-standard format as compared to other London station names. It would be a very simple, customer-friendly approach to allow several different options within the menu, reflecting the most likely terms to be used.

 

[Haywain]

especially not when it is in a non-standard format as compared to other London station names.

What is non-standard about it compared with London Waterloo, London Liverpool Street, London Fenchurch Street etc

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==

Yes but then why is London Fenchurch Street before Church Fenton?

No idea.

 

[OscarH]

Yes but then why is London Fenchurch Street before Church Fenton?

People typing fen are probably more likely to be looking for Fenchurch Street than Church Fenton to be fair

 

[cool110]

It would be much easier if it let you search for Waterloo and then substitute that for London Stations.

Not if you want the Merseyrail Waterloo

 

[maniacmartin]

If it was an S&B machine, then you need to prefix it with "London" because S&B machines anchor the substring search to the start of the string, unlike most ticket booking websites. It has caught me out before.
Others that are hard to find are Travelcards. Sometimes you need to search "London Zones", sometimes "Zones" etc depending on which website or TVM you are using.

Some websites inventing "London Stations" to mean "London Terminals" is also confusing. I'm sure a lay person could interpret it to be any station in Zones 1-6 or similar. There have been moves to fix other misleading group names though - e.g. What was "Croydon Stations" now often prints as "East or West Croydon" which makes it much clearer that South Croydon is not one of the stations in the group.

At least the confusing situation of St Pancras having different codes for the domestic and international platforms is no more.