Waterloo and City line sponsorship

[bluegoblin7]

Ultimately it depends on what form the sponsorship takes, but if it involves renaming the line or station then it makes it less accessible. We’ve seen it with some of the station brand activations previously, and also some of the takeovers that happen on the mainline for certain national events.

Not all disabilities are visible: it’s obviously not going to affect someone with a physical disability, but could easily have an impact on someone with a mental illness, neurodivergence and more. It can also impact some sight loss conditions where people rely on pattern recognition for wayfinding. Removing familiarity is a retrograde step and does make transport less accessible - despite the protestations of those who think it’s fun or cutesy.

Of course, there is no indication on what form a brand activation on the Waterloo & City line might take - or even if it will happen at the moment - but it is understandable that those who are already nervous travellers, or need more support to travel around the network, are concerned. A new moquette or a relivery is unlikely to have any major impact (and, as mentioned, it’s been done before - the Yellow Pages C stock is probably the most infamous) but wider changes - which are hinted at in the TfL press release - are rightly cause for concern.

Unfortunately, with the organisation have to continue to find recurring savings year on year just to keep services running - see the furore about increased graffiti - there is likely to be more and more of this. The only viable, alternative solution is to restore some level of public grant funding to TfL - again, the only major public transport system in the world to not get central support.

 

[Russel]

How would it impact people though?

My point exactly, it seems to be more of a political point scoring type of comment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2025 ==

Ultimately it depends on what form the sponsorship takes, but if it involves renaming the line or station then it makes it less accessible. We’ve seen it with some of the station brand activations previously, and also some of the takeovers that happen on the mainline for certain public holidays.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that names won't be changed.

 

[frankmoh]

Ultimately it depends on what form the sponsorship takes, but if it involves renaming the line or station then it makes it less accessible. We’ve seen it with some of the station brand activations previously, and also some of the takeovers that happen on the mainline for certain public holidays.

I don't understand how renaming the station would make it less accessible? I do assume you mean this for neurodivergent people though because obviously a sponsor removing step-free access would be very bad publicity.

 

[Class15]

How does this make it less accessible to neurodivergent people?

I’m asking a genuine question as I don’t quite understand.

 

[rebmcr]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that names won't be changed.

I have no internal information, but I would bet good money that the intended concept for this project is to render it somewhat like:

"The ACME™ Waterloo and City Line"

or

"The Waterloo and City Line by ACME™"

Whether that constitutes a 'name change' is left as an exercise for the reader.

 

[Thirteen]

Ultimately it depends on what form the sponsorship takes, but if it involves renaming the line or station then it makes it less accessible. We’ve seen it with some of the station brand activations previously, and also some of the takeovers that happen on the mainline for certain national events.

Not all disabilities are visible: it’s obviously not going to affect someone with a physical disability, but could easily have an impact on someone with a mental illness, neurodivergence and more. It can also impact some sight loss conditions where people rely on pattern recognition for wayfinding. Removing familiarity is a retrograde step and does make transport less accessible - despite the protestations of those who think it’s fun or cutesy.

Of course, there is no indication on what form a brand activation on the Waterloo & City line might take - or even if it will happen at the moment - but it is understandable that those who are already nervous travellers, or need more support to travel around the network, are concerned. A new moquette or a relivery is unlikely to have any major impact (and, as mentioned, it’s been done before - the Yellow Pages C stock is probably the most infamous) but wider changes - which are hinted at in the TfL press release - are rightly cause for concern.

Unfortunately, with the organisation have to continue to find recurring savings year on year just to keep services running - see the furore about increased graffiti - there is likely to be more and more of this. The only viable, alternative solution is to restore some level of public grant funding to TfL - again, the only major public transport system in the world to not get central support.

Looking at both stations, I wonder if exclusive branding on billboards at each station as well as on the trains themselves might be the best solution.

 

[Russel]

I have no internal information, but I would bet good money that the intended concept for this project is to render it somewhat like:

"The ACME™ Waterloo and City Line"

or

"The Waterloo and City Line by ACME™"

Whether that constitutes a 'name change' is left as an exercise for the reader.

Yeah maybe, as long as it isn't too intrusive, I don't have an issue with it.

If it generates money for TFL then go for it, I just hope they spend some of the income on employing a few more cleaners...

 

[frankmoh]

How does this make it less accessible to neurodivergent people?

I’m asking a genuine question as I don’t quite understand.

This question still remains unanswered

 

[rebmcr]

This question still remains unanswered

There is a good answer within post #31

 

[boiledbeans2]

I'm surprised the Trams can't have ad vinyls like they do with the buses.

[...]

There is a purple tram though - 2554.

Not my pic:

https://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/03/28/97/3289793_488a9737_original.jpg

 

[35B]

My point exactly, it seems to be more of a political point scoring type of comment.

It was, as it was from the leader of an opposition party (the LibDems) at City Hall criticising the current administration.

 

[transportphoto]

If this isn’t something for Have I Got News for You, I don’t know what is.

Personally, I’d support the efforts to drive revenue to reinvest.

 

[frankmoh]

There is a good answer within post #31

OK this makes sense. HOWEVER the W&C line has 2 stops, I think you would know what you are getting into with that. Then again Bank station is a nightmare to walk around regardless of them changing its look.

 

[birchesgreen]

I would have thought Dynorod would be a good sponsor.

 

[whoosh]

The decision hasn't gone well with some at City Hall:

Exclusive: TfL sells sponsorship rights to whole Tube line in lucrative rebrand deal

Exclusive: Branding rights to entire line up for grabs in latest cash-generating initiative

www.standard.co.uk

I do wonder how some at City Hall suggests TfL grows their revenue without ad and sponsors? Also, TfL isn't a private company so the idea they're putting profit before people is daft.

The point being made here, is that some sponsorships have changed station names - or at least on some of the roundels. Old Street to Fold Street was one, for a Samsung phone.

Also, there is another thread on here, where 'We are Lewisham' and 'This is Croydon' had been placed on roundels at stations that were neither Lewisham or Croydon. The Croydon sign was actually one stop away at Norwood Junction.

The roundel was specifically designed, over 100 years ago, to stand out and give information against a backdrop of adverts. To sell it out as space for local council backslapping (We are Lewisham/This is Croydon) or PR stunts (Fold Street) goes against the reasons for it's conception. It should be sacrosanct space for the information it's intended for. Nothing else.

 

[frankmoh]

The point being made here, is that some sponsorships have changed station names - or at least on some of the roundels. Old Street to Fold Street was one, for a Samsung phone.

Also, there is another thread on here, where 'We are Lewisham' and 'This is Croydon' had been placed on roundels at stations that were neither Lewisham or Croydon. The Croydon sign was actually one stop away at Norwood Junction.

The roundel was specifically designed, over 100 years ago, to stand out and give information against a backdrop of adverts. To sell it out as space for local council backslapping (We are Lewisham/This is Croydon) or PR stunts (Fold Street) goes against the reasons for it's conception. It should be sacrosanct space for the information it's intended for. Nothing else.

Seems shockingly stupid to put "This is Croydon" on a station without Croydon in the name.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Seems shockingly stupid to put "This is Croydon" on a station without Croydon in the name.

It is.

I mentioned on the other thread a few months ago that I had to persuade someone who wanted West Croydon NOT to get off at Norwood Junction because that particular roundel was the one opposite the window...

 

[Tetchytyke]

The point being made here, is that some sponsorships have changed station names - or at least on some of the roundels. Old Street to Fold Street was one, for a Samsung phone.

The temporary changes are a problem because they are genuinely confusing, especially if English isn't your first language and you don't understand why the lame pun is so terribly funny.

Permanent changes I don't have an issue with. It doesn't matter if it is called the Findus Crispy Pancakes Line so long as it is consistently called that.

As for Frank Pick's thoughts on the matter, he was very very comfortable with Gillespie Road station having its name changed following pressure from a prominent local business.

 

[Andyh82]

I have no internal information, but I would bet good money that the intended concept for this project is to render it somewhat like:

"The ACME™ Waterloo and City Line"

or

"The Waterloo and City Line by ACME™"

Whether that constitutes a 'name change' is left as an exercise for the reader.

And if ACME is well known for using red as their corporate colour, what’s the chances that the line colour will be changed to red on the maps

For Red, read any colour other than the current Waterloo & City colour

 

[frankmoh]

And if ACME is well known for using red as their corporate colour, what’s the chances that the line colour will be changed to red on the maps

For Red, read any colour other than the current Waterloo & City colour

I would have thought they would use alternating red/turquoise for this example, like what's used for the current Tube map and Kensington Olympia with green and white.



(Don't ask me why I have used examples from a 1992 Tube map)

 

[bluegoblin7]

Dashed lines have a specific meaning - duplicating the style with an existing colour will cause confusion.

Likewise, a new colour for the line or a new style of line will also cause confusion even amongst regular users - all of the wayfinding needs updating. The same applies if the stations solely on the line are rebranded, but left alone on the other lines (eg Bank Central/Northern are unchanged but Bank becomes, say, ACME Bank, and likewise at Waterloo).

Indeed, a real world example is the Emirates Air-Line IFS Cloud Cable Car. Whilst the terminals and cars are bespoke branded, the majority of permanent signage and even things like car line diagrams (produced since the new sponsorship deal) all refer to the London Cable Car. And yes - it has led to some tourists believing that there are two cable cars.

All of this is why sponsorship involving changing names etc is absolutely making the line less accessible than it is at the moment.

 

[Falcon1200]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that names won't be changed.

The station names surely won't be changed, as Bank serves other lines as well as the W&C, and the major part of Waterloo is not even TfL's!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Whilst the terminals and cars are bespoke branded, the majority of permanent signage and even things like car line diagrams (produced since the new sponsorship deal) all refer to the London Cable Car. And yes - it has led to some tourists believing that there are two cable cars.

TfL made an absolute horlicks of the branding change on the Dangleway, mostly because they struggled to actually find a replacement sponsor to Emirates and there was a gap between the end of the Emirates deal and the start of the IFS Cloud deal.

So some signage came out as London Cable Car and TfL were left to choose between IFS Cloud Cable Car and London Cable Car for the subsequent signage.

I can't help but think London Cable Car by IFS Cloud would have worked better, but given TfL were struggling to find anyone to stump up the cash maybe TfL didn't have a choice.

All of that might be a warning for the sponsorship of the W&C. Companies weren't falling over themselves to sponsor the Dangleway. Would sponsorship of the W&C be much more attractive?

 

[Thirteen]

TfL made an absolute horlicks of the branding change on the Dangleway, mostly because they struggled to actually find a replacement sponsor to Emirates and there was a gap between the end of the Emirates deal and the start of the IFS Cloud deal.

So some signage came out as London Cable Car and TfL were left to choose between IFS Cloud Cable Car and London Cable Car for the subsequent signage.

I can't help but think London Cable Car by IFS Cloud would have worked better, but given TfL were struggling to find anyone to stump up the cash maybe TfL didn't have a choice.

All of that might be a warning for the sponsorship of the W&C. Companies weren't falling over themselves to sponsor the Dangleway. Would sponsorship of the W&C be much more attractive?

The Cable Cars aren't really a form of transport with regular commuters whereas the W&C has millions of commuters per day who could be advertised to. I think a high end company would sponsor the W&C.

 

[edwin_m]

The temporary changes are a problem because they are genuinely confusing, especially if English isn't your first language and you don't understand why the lame pun is so terribly funny.

Permanent changes I don't have an issue with. It doesn't matter if it is called the Findus Crispy Pancakes Line so long as it is consistently called that.

As for Frank Pick's thoughts on the matter, he was very very comfortable with Gillespie Road station having its name changed following pressure from a prominent local business.

Trouble is it can't be permanent. The sponsorship has to be subject to specific payment terms, which might be extendable but if the sponsor doesn't want to continue or just stops paying then the line has to transition to a new sponsor or, if none can be agreed, revert to standard TfL branding. If the sponsor thinks their handiwork will remain in place even if they stop paying, then what's the incentive to pay?

So whoever works these things out at TfL needs to ensure that the payment covers the initial re-brand, any extra ongoing costs of keeping it during the franchise period, but also an allowance for returning it to standard afterwards. Plus of course a hefty contribution to TfL's coffers. All this needs to be contractually enforced so if the sponsor walks away part way through then TfL finances are still net positive, so the payment to revert to TfL branding probably needs to be up front in case the sponsor disappears or defaults during the term of the agreement.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Trouble is it can't be permanent.

It doesn’t need to be permanent so long as it is for a decent chunk of time, rather than a fortnight like it has been with the station re-brandings.

I definitely agree with your other points, and that will be where TfL’s due diligence will be so important. It would also make it more sensible to go with “Waterloo and City Line presented by Findus Crispy Pancakes” rather than the “Findus Crispy Pancakes Line”.

From what I can see, at the minute it is just about TfL exploring if they can do it and, if they can, whether it’s worth doing it. Be interesting to see what they decide. The W&C isn’t a core part of the network but it’s more important than the Dangleway.

 

[Lockwood]

Can I revisit a question I approached earlier?

How long did it take the Boris bikes to change colour? I think the Barclays to Santander switch was fairly quick, but I'm not a daily visitor to London, so from my perspective it may have been a faster change.

Was that sponsorship change quicker and smoother than the dangleway?

 

[Russel]

Can I revisit a question I approached earlier?

How long did it take the Boris bikes to change colour? I think the Barclays to Santander switch was fairly quick, but I'm not a daily visitor to London, so from my perspective it may have been a faster change.

Was that sponsorship change quicker and smoother than the dangleway?

Interesting question and one I'd be interested in knowing the answer to as well.

Given the number of Boris bikes, one would assume it would take quite some time.

 

[Tetchytyke]

How long did it take the Boris bikes to change colour? I think the Barclays to Santander switch was fairly quick, but I'm not a daily visitor to London, so from my perspective it may have been a faster change.

It was relatively quick, but it was months rather than weeks.

Was that sponsorship change quicker and smoother than the dangleway?

The issue with the Dangleway was simply that they didn't have a replacement sponsor when the Emirates contract came to an end. And it wasn't from the lack of effort on TfL's part to find a new one.

So they had to rebrand it twice- once to get rid of the Emirates branding and then, separately, to put the IFS Cloud branding in place.

 

[thomalex]

Can I revisit a question I approached earlier?

How long did it take the Boris bikes to change colour? I think the Barclays to Santander switch was fairly quick, but I'm not a daily visitor to London, so from my perspective it may have been a faster change.

Was that sponsorship change quicker and smoother than the dangleway?

Must admit given the prevalence of Lime I can see the Boris Bikes being retired over the next few years.