SailRail: How does the ferry leg interact with the NRCoT?

[purple-Azumas]

Let’s say I have a SailRail Advance from Rosslare to Cardiff, booked on the 08:15 ferry (arrives 11:45) and the 13:00 train (arrives 15:49). Now if the ferry was a train service and ran say 90 minutes late so that you miss the connection, it’s well understood (and indeed explicit in NRCoT 9.4) that you could catch the next Fishguard – Cardiff train (here it would be the 16:00) at no extra charge.

NRCoT 9.4: Where you are using a Ticket valid on a specific train service or train services (such as an “advance” Ticket) and you miss a service because a previous connecting train service was delayed, you will be able to travel on the next train service provided by the Train Company with whom you were booked without penalty.

Of course it would take a very brave guard to try and argue against it, but given that the ferry is not a ‘train service’ in the way that a layman would see it and the NRCoT doesn’t define ‘train service’, ‘train’ or anything else I could see which is relevant, would an automatic entitlement to use the 16:00 apply? In essence, at what point on the journey do you start being ‘the railway’s problem’ and the Conditions of Travel or PRO kick in?

Suppose instead of holding a SailRail Advance from Rosslare to Cardiff you held a SailRail Advance from Rosslare to Swansea and then a TfW Advance from Swansea to Cardiff, booked on the same trains, and suppose the ferry is 90 minutes late again. Are you allowed to automatically take the 16:00 all the way to Cardiff? Just to Swansea? Not at all? In essence, how does having ‘split tickets’ change any of the above?

And finally, what would happen the other way around, i.e. you had a SailRail Advance Cardiff – Rosslare (10:06 Cardiff – Fishguard, arriving 12:51 for the 14:00 ferry) and the train was 90 minutes late? Could you automatically take the next ferry and if so/not is that written anywhere? Would the answer be the same if you instead had split tickets, a TfW Advance from Cardiff to Swansea and a SailRail Advance from Swansea to Rosslare, but this time the Cardiff – Fishguard train is started short at Swansea?

Apologies for all the questions – just trying to figure out how it all works if things go wrong and there seems to be very little information written. Thanks in advance for any answers.

 

[drueberflug]

Part B of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) indicates that they may not be (fully) applicable to your journey.

These Conditions apply to travel within Great Britain only.

Transport for Wales have further interpreted this, stating that they only "apply to all domestic (non-international) journeys by scheduled passenger train services of the train companies on the railway network of Great Britain."

The "Uniform Rules concerning the Contract of International Carriage of Passengers by Rail" (CIV) are what will apply to your SailRail journey, hence SailRail tickets are (almost?) always explicitly issued as CIV tickets.

 

[yorkie]

Part B of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) indicates that they may not be (fully) applicable to your journey....

I would argue that any rights of this nature do not need to be explicitly defined as permissible in the NRCoT; for example, consumer rights do not have to be detailed in the terms of any particular contract to apply, as they would apply regardless.

 

[Flying Snail]

Let’s say I have a SailRail Advance from Rosslare to Cardiff, booked on the 08:15 ferry (arrives 11:45) and the 13:00 train (arrives 15:49). Now if the ferry was a train service and ran say 90 minutes late so that you miss the connection, it’s well understood (and indeed explicit in NRCoT 9.4) that you could catch the next Fishguard – Cardiff train (here it would be the 16:00) at no extra charge.



Of course it would take a very brave guard to try and argue against it, but given that the ferry is not a ‘train service’ in the way that a layman would see it and the NRCoT doesn’t define ‘train service’, ‘train’ or anything else I could see which is relevant, would an automatic entitlement to use the 16:00 apply? In essence, at what point on the journey do you start being ‘the railway’s problem’ and the Conditions of Travel or PRO kick in?

Suppose instead of holding a SailRail Advance from Rosslare to Cardiff you held a SailRail Advance from Rosslare to Swansea and then a TfW Advance from Swansea to Cardiff, booked on the same trains, and suppose the ferry is 90 minutes late again. Are you allowed to automatically take the 16:00 all the way to Cardiff? Just to Swansea? Not at all? In essence, how does having ‘split tickets’ change any of the above?

And finally, what would happen the other way around, i.e. you had a SailRail Advance Cardiff – Rosslare (10:06 Cardiff – Fishguard, arriving 12:51 for the 14:00 ferry) and the train was 90 minutes late? Could you automatically take the next ferry and if so/not is that written anywhere? Would the answer be the same if you instead had split tickets, a TfW Advance from Cardiff to Swansea and a SailRail Advance from Swansea to Rosslare, but this time the Cardiff – Fishguard train is started short at Swansea?

Apologies for all the questions – just trying to figure out how it all works if things go wrong and there seems to be very little information written. Thanks in advance for any answers.

The split-ticket scenario is largely theoretical as the zonal sail-rail fare structure make any split very unlikely to be cheaper.

You can use these tickets the same as regular railway "advances", I would say that for a longer journey with more connections/options the more expensive (approx £6) Sailrail Standby is a much more flexible ticket with no stupid booked train restrictions and well worth the extra few quid.

For travel from Ireland then you also have the option of purchasing from the ferry companies (and Irish Rail) in Ireland, the tickets they issue have no such restrictions.

The ferry companies do not use or have access to the railway booking system for the Fishguard or Holyhead routes and have no interest in the railway restrictions or bookings, once you have a valid rail/sail ticket for their route they will accept it.

I would strongly suggest not missing the ferry as the next one is not for c12 hours at Fishguard, The connection from the train has some slack and the ferry staff will hold boarding to close to departure for a late train, if coming from further away leave some room for connections and if it is likely you will miss the Fishguard train seek assistance sooner rather than later. A taxi will get you to the ferry from Swansea in less than 90mns.

 

[yorkie]

If the journey involves a change, specify additional interchange time at any change locations.

Split tickets are no issue, but I advise having a through itinerary.

 

[purple-Azumas]

The "Uniform Rules concerning the Contract of International Carriage of Passengers by Rail" (CIV) are what will apply to your SailRail journey, hence SailRail tickets are (almost?) always explicitly issued as CIV tickets.

Thank you - I'd sort of half clocked this but had assumed it was just a rail thing rather than applying to the ferry travel too. That said, I couldn't see anything which specifically addresses missed connection: Article 32 §1* talks about providing accommodation if you can't complete the journey that day. The best I could find is Article 6 §1* which says that 'the carrier shall undertake to carry the passenger [...] to the place of destination' which I suppose implicitly says that taking the next train is okay even if it's not spelt out, which makes me think a little bit that

I would argue that any rights of this nature do not need to be explicitly defined as permissible in the NRCoT

is probably the best answer that there is, though I'm always worried I'll find someone who doesn't want to be reasonable and I'd like to be able to at least point to something that vaguely backs me up.

* For the record, quotes as follows:

CIV: Article 6 §1 By the contract of carriage the carrier shall undertake to carry the passenger as well as, where appropriate, luggage and vehicles to the place of destination and to deliver the luggage and vehicles at the place of destination

CIV: Article 32 §1 The carrier shall be liable to the passenger for loss or damage resulting from the fact that, by reason of cancellation, the late running of a train or a missed connection, his journey cannot be continued the same day, or that a continuation of the journey the same day could not reasonably be required because of given circumstances. The damages shall comprise the reasonable costs of accommodation as well as the reasonable costs occasioned by having to notify persons expecting the passenger.

 

[yorkie]

...is probably the best answer that there is, though I'm always worried I'll find someone who doesn't want to be reasonable and I'd like to be able to at least point to something that vaguely backs me up...

If you buy the tickets from our ticketing site, then we will back you up in the event of a dispute, especially if the journey was bought as a through journey.

I'm aware of occasions where people bought through the forum site/Trainsplit and were then mistreated by a train company, but the matter was escalated, and a successful outcome was obtained for the customer.

 

[purple-Azumas]

Of course, and thank you @Flying Snail and @yorkie for the advice - I know I'm being a little bit silly with this example but I'm just trying to figure out how it all works as it feels much more complicated than just sticking in GB.

If I could ask one more question, is there any difference to the above if we're talking about the Cairnryan - Belfast or Heysham - Douglas ferriees and SailRail tickets further inland? The first one is obviously UK - UK so my reading is that CIV doesn't apply but I'm not sure what the status of the Isle of Man is for the second one. I guess either way it doesn't really matter because of the common sense point above but equally I can't see why the ferry company would have to accept you if there were say train delays. Again, I appreciate it's mostly accademic as you wouldn't want to miss the boat without good reason.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

Ah, sorry - cross post. Think the above probably answers it.