Faded barcode All Line Rail Rover

[Jan Mayen]

I have an All Line Rail Rover. The barcode has faded so that ticket barriers don't even read it, let all reject it (which most do, of course). Is it still valid? Can I get a free replacement?
Any advice appreciated.

 

[OscarH]

I believe a ticket office should be able to issue a replacement, but you probably want to get this done before the barcode fades anymore. Replacing it without a scannable barcode might be harder

 

[Haywain]

I believe a ticket office should be able to issue a replacement, but you probably want to get this done before the barcode fades anymore. Replacing it without a scannable barcode might be harder

I'm not sure they would be able to - I don't think a TIS is likely to have an option to issue a replacement, and they certainly can't backdate a 'new' issue.

 

[OscarH]

I'm not sure they would be able to - I don't think a TIS is likely to have an option to issue a replacement, and they certainly can't backdate a 'new' issue.

Ah I thought it would be similar to faded seasons, though looking at the docs even those look like an absolute nightmare

 

[bkhtele]

I would take a sceen shot of it before it fades any more. Some/most tocs can check the ticket from the ticket no adjacent to the bar code using thier mobile scanners, if it is readable & staff know how!

 

[Flying Snail]

I would take a sceen shot of it before it fades any more. Some/most tocs can check the ticket from the ticket no adjacent to the bar code using thier mobile scanners, if it is readable & staff know how!

I assume the OP is talking about the magstripe on a CCST ticket not the "printed" text or an aztec code.

I wouldn't worry about it, having used them in the past the general usefulness of the barcode was approx one barrier use, following that they just refused to work any gateline. A CCST ticket of any type does not require the magstripe to be readable for it to be valid which is just as well as there would be a lot of people with invalid tickets.

Can ALRs be fulfilled as e-tickets? Maybe those would have a better chance of opening barriers, or maybe not as Interrail/Britrail aztec codes are almost universally refused at gatelines as well.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Just to clarify, my ALR does not have a magstripe. It is the barcode that had stopped working. Even on train checks don't work anymore. It's just visual checks now.

 

[Flying Snail]

Just to clarify, my ALR does not have a magstripe. It is the barcode that had stopped working. Even on train checks don't work anymore. It's just visual checks now.

Edit: sorry, brain-fart, I get you now.

Ticket offices replacing faded season tickets is hardly unknown so possibly one can swap this for you.

I'd be wary that the rest of it doesn't fade soon, the tickets are thermal printed so heat/pressure rather than friction makes them fade. If this one is already going then most likely the printer didn't heat the ticket enough to begin with to properly burn it in

 

[Jan Mayen]

I don't know the correct name, but it was printed at a ticket office on paper. It's larger than credit card size, about twice as large.

 

[Starmill]

Edit: sorry, brain-fart, I get you now.

Ticket offices replacing faded season tickets is hardly unknown so possibly one can swap this for you.

I'd be wary that the rest of it doesn't fade soon, the tickets are thermal printed so heat/pressure rather than friction makes them fade. If this one is already going then most likely the printer didn't heat the ticket enough to begin with to properly burn it in

The ticket clerk wouldn't be able to rely on a formal process to reissue a faded rover as Haywain has already pointed out that there isn't one.

Therefore the most likely answer is simply a "Sorry there's nothing I can do for you, just continue to travel with the ticket".

I'm sure that a possibility to reissue the rover and retain the old one exists but would require a little creativity. A ticket office supervisor may be more willing to assist with that, especially if you can speak to one at the same company as the machine that issued the original. Or alternatively even they may not be able to assist.

If the OP can't get anyone to assist, and they're unlucky enough to experience fading to the point of illegibility before the ticket is used up, they are likely to be refused travel by the gateline staff somewhere. I would be extremely disappointed if anyone tried to charge a penalty fare or a report for prosecution in these circumstances, but there are unfortunately revenue staff out there who will see that as perfectly fair. No doubt a small number would claim the customer were travelling on a piece of blank ticket roll and never bought any ticket. I that scenario they would have no choice but to purchase new tickets and submit a claim to the company that sold the original. However, we can hope it doesn't actually fade any further before travel with it is at an end.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

Can ALRs be fulfilled as e-tickets?

There's been lots of talk of this, and obviously a standard has existed for Plusbus and cycle reservations to be fulfilled to eticket for quite a few years now. At least Plusbus has now been rolled out. But I'm not aware of one for rangers and rovers - unless anyone knows better?

 

[Flying Snail]

The ticket clerk wouldn't be able to rely on a formal process to reissue a faded rover as Haywain has already pointed out that there isn't one.

Therefore the most likely answer is simply a "Sorry there's nothing I can do for you, just continue to travel with the ticket".

I'm sure that a possibility to reissue the rover and retain the old one exists but would require a little creativity. A ticket office supervisor may be more willing to assist with that, especially if you can speak to one at the same company as the machine that issued the original. Or alternatively even they may not be able to assist.

If the OP can't get anyone to assist, and they're unlucky enough to experience fading to the point of illegibility before the ticket is used up, they are likely to be refused travel by the gateline staff somewhere. I would be extremely disappointed if anyone tried to charge a penalty fare or a report for prosecution in these circumstances, but there are unfortunately revenue staff out there who will see that as perfectly fair. No doubt a small number would claim the customer were travelling on a piece of blank ticket roll and never bought any ticket. I that scenario they would have no choice but to purchase new tickets and submit a claim to the company that sold the original. However, we can hope it doesn't actually fade any further before travel with it is at an end.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

It would be extremely unfair to label a gateline assistant/guard/revenue as the problem in the scenario of a passenger presenting a blank piece of ticket roll and claiming it to be one of the most unrestricted tickets on the network. Are you seriously suggesting that all blank bits of thermal paper presented for travel be assumed to be such?

The fault here is far higher up with people who have overseen the introduction of these substandard ticket systems and apparently haven't bothered to put any system of redress in for customers put through no fault of their own in the inevitable situation where these tickets fade away while still in use.

 

[eta]

I don't know the correct name, but it was printed at a ticket office on paper. It's larger than credit card size, about twice as large.

Sounds like a Paper Roll Ticket (PRT), or possibly one of the newer variations on the theme of barcode-only paper tickets.

There's been lots of talk of this, and obviously a standard has existed for Plusbus and cycle reservations to be fulfilled to eticket for quite a few years now. At least Plusbus has now been rolled out. But I'm not aware of one for rangers and rovers - unless anyone knows better?

The encoding is the same for paper tickets with a barcode and for e-tickets, but policies might prevent retailers issuing the latter. I'm a bit hazy on the details, but I remember the barcode for rovers not being particularly interesting; they usually just put the rover's NLC in the origin and destination fields or something like that.

 

[crablab]

There's been various debates about what actually constitutes a valid eTicket, which is somewhat applicable to a PRT which is effectively an extension of that (ie. an eTicket printed on some paper, not necessarily even orange paper!). As eTickets can be presented in various forms, it is unsatisfactory that the NRCoT does not clearly set out what must be presented to constitute an "eTicket", with a minority of TOCs having vague policies instead.

If the Aztec is still readable enough, the data encoded in it can be retrieved (for example, via https://eta.st/tickets, which will also decode the payload) and the OPs phone can render a less corrupted version of the original Aztec with the original payload unmodified, to be displayed alongside the paper version for ease of scanning and passage through gatelines.

That is, in my opinion, the most pragmatic solution - scan the Aztec, retrieve the payload and reproduce the Aztec on your phone. I accept the railway may beg to differ.

The payload is an encrypted and signed blob which can be validated by those with suitable device. It is irrefutable proof (unless the railway loses the private keys) of possession of a valid ticket. The device presenting it is fairly irrelevant in my opinion; the scan history is intended to prevent misuse.

 

[eta]

If the Aztec is still readable enough, the data encoded in it can be retrieved (for example, via https://eta.st/tickets [...])

(If you do try this, scan the barcode with a different app and then paste its contents into that website; the barcode scanner on the website itself is not the best, especially for faded barcodes.)

 

[Starmill]

There is nothing to suggest that the opinion of any front line staff will have shifted. A harcore will still consider that only an "original" is valid for travel, according to their own personal moveable feast of what does and doesn't count as original, which isn't something I'd be the first bit prepared to defend. As crablab rightly points out there's no definition provided whatsoever. Even among staff who don't take this view, there are lots who will argue that anything presented without legible text, that is to say, including an Aztec code by itself, is by definition not valid for travel. Again the NRCoT is totally silent on this.

I personally don't think there's any chance that the perception among some front line staff that something without legible text, defined narrowly as legible and understandable without the aid of computer systems, will be changing any time soon. Even if the NRCoT were in fact changed, some would absolutely not accept Aztec codes by themselves without further information.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

the scan history is intended to prevent misuse

The issue is of course that the scan history is considered by some people to be unfit for purpose. Now my view is that's their own fault at the end of the day, but my view doesn't change much. Ticketkeeper devices seem to work very reliably with it. Some others are very unlikely to show up consistently or find others. I myself had a Seven Day Season which had almost 100 scan records on it scanned by a Masabi device that found one single scan only - the one other Masabi handheld device it had been seen by onboard a CrossCountry train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

The encoding is the same for paper tickets with a barcode and for e-tickets, but policies might prevent retailers issuing the latter. I'm a bit hazy on the details, but I remember the barcode for rovers not being particularly interesting; they usually just put the rover's NLC in the origin and destination fields or something like that.

Indeed, but the standard for the Aztec code isn't really the important part, the reason they couldn't be issued is because there wasn't a standard for print layout.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

It would be extremely unfair to label a gateline assistant/guard/revenue as the problem in the scenario of a passenger presenting a blank piece of ticket roll and claiming it to be one of the most unrestricted tickets on the network. Are you seriously suggesting that all blank bits of thermal paper presented for travel be assumed to be such?

I'm suggesting that any penalty fare or prosecution in this scenario would be very plainly unlawful, without a doubt. If you read my post I made that pretty clear. I make no further comments on who is or isn't "the problem" as you put it. Ultimately who is or isn't the problem is also irrelevant to the OP.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2025 ==

(If you do try this, scan the barcode with a different app and then paste its contents into that website; the barcode scanner on the website itself is not the best, especially for faded barcodes.)

From the OP's description it sounds like the code is too far gone to read using any kind of device. Unfortunately that's very much not unheard of. Perhaps they ought to give it a try.

 

[jpl]

I assume the OP is talking about the magstripe on a CCST ticket not the "printed" text or an aztec code.

I wouldn't worry about it, having used them in the past the general usefulness of the barcode was approx one barrier use, following that they just refused to work any gateline. A CCST ticket of any type does not require the magstripe to be readable for it to be valid which is just as well as there would be a lot of people with invalid tickets.

Can ALRs be fulfilled as e-tickets? Maybe those would have a better chance of opening barriers, or maybe not as Interrail/Britrail aztec codes are almost universally refused at gatelines as well.

During my eight day Britrail trip in autumn 2024 the aztec opened barriers everywhere around England and Scotland but not in Newcastle. With my experience I would not say Britrail is universally refused. It opens majority of the barriers now. It works also in Kings Cross lounge where they read aztecs.

However, Interrail is different and I believe it is currently not working on barriers anywhere in the UK.

But ALRs issued as e-tickets might work well as Britrail.

 

[Starmill]

There is an Interrail api that is used by some ticketkeeper devices to confirm that a ticket was issued by Interrail. I don't think it can confirm if it's in date, and it definitely can't confirm what countries it's valid for travel in or if the journey has been input to the log (albeit the final requirement is quite a joke for on train staff to actually verify, given it can be freely amended, and clearly isn't even possible to encode in the barcode anyway, but that's what the Interrail conditions say you must do). An Interrail pass generally will open the NS ticket gates, at least a certain number of times.

 

[Haywain]

I don't know the correct name, but it was printed at a ticket office on paper. It's larger than credit card size, about twice as large.

Focussing on your specific problem, when does the ALR expire?

 

[Jan Mayen]

Focussing on your specific problem, when does the ALR expire?

Expies Saturday 12 July.
I did actually scan the barcode on Sunday, as a result of reading something on a thread here so somewhere. Sadly, I cannot find the scan on my phone, or the thread I was reading. The scan worked, and I was able to read all the ticket info on my phone. If only I could retrieve it

 

[transportphoto]

Expies Saturday 12 July.
I did actually scan the barcode on Sunday, as a result of reading something on a thread here so somewhere. Sadly, I cannot find the scan on my phone, or the thread I was reading. The scan worked, and I was able to read all the ticket info on my phone. If only I could retrieve it

This is great, the ability to scan your own ticket using open source decoders, but I don’t understand how it’s going to help you during a ticket inspection. I don’t envy your position with such an expensive ticket!

 

[WestAnglian]

I have an All Line Rail Rover. The barcode has faded so that ticket barriers don't even read it, let all reject it (which most do, of course). Is it still valid? Can I get a free replacement?
Any advice appreciated.

I'm surprised the barriers even worked. I had a rover in May and no barrier ever opened for me.

 

[crablab]

but I don’t understand how it’s going to help you during a ticket inspection

As I said above: scan Aztec, retrieve payload, generate new Aztec on phone which can be scanned.

Will probably require some explanation too.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Went to the ticket office where I purchased the ALR, asking if they could help.
They didn't think they could, but to their credit, said they would look into it and would call me.
Fingers crossed

 

[transportphoto]

As I said above: scan Aztec, retrieve payload, generate new Aztec on phone which can be scanned.

Will probably require some explanation too.

Hmm. Okay. I think I agree with other posters that this isn’t yet covered for in the terms and conditions (e.g. the NRCOT). We’re stuck in the past whereby a paper ticket has to be in its present form (in an inspectable condition).

 

[Haywain]

Went to the ticket office where I purchased the ALR, asking if they could help.
They didn't think they could, but to their credit, said they would look into it and would call me.
Fingers crossed

In the meantime, take a photo of the whole ticket before it fades any further.

 

[styles]

I'd definitely take plenty of photos of it before anything else.

Seems absurd to me that such an expensive and unrestricted ticket is printed on the same paper designed for single use tickets, which is really all it's good for.

Does also make me wonder - can you buy ALRs on board trains? I'm not sure that ticket seller would appreciate carrying £1450 cash for the rest of their shift!

 

[Haywain]

Seems absurd to me that such an expensive and unrestricted ticket is printed on the same paper designed for single use tickets, which is really all it's good for.

7-day seasons can also be issued on PRT stock. In my experience, it's reasonably durable if looked after.

 

[transportphoto]

Does also make me wonder - can you buy ALRs on board trains? I'm not sure that ticket seller would appreciate carrying £1450 cash for the rest of their shift!

Yes, you can. It’ll be printed on Paper Roll Ticket much like any other ticket.

Some mobile ticket issuing systems have a maximum card transaction amount lower than this - the get around is breaking it into a few transactions of lower amounts.

TOCs often provide an opportunity to pay in cash mid-shift.

I doubt a commission earning (where commission is a percentage of value of ticket sold) colleague would say no to selling this ticket… assuming they know how to work the Rovers menu.

 

[Jan Mayen]

In the meantime, take a photo of the whole ticket before it fades any further.

Thanks for the suggestion. Photo taken.
I've also managed to create an Aztec code using the data I've retrieved earlier this week. However. I've decided against trying to use a homemade code to travel.
Has anyone any suggestions on how I can store an All Line Rover when it's issued on PRT, bearing in mind it invariably won't work barriers?

 

[OscarH]

The encoding is the same for paper tickets with a barcode and for e-tickets, but policies might prevent retailers issuing the latter. I'm a bit hazy on the details, but I remember the barcode for rovers not being particularly interesting; they usually just put the rover's NLC in the origin and destination fields or something like that.

Yeah the encoding is boring and the same, the non-rollout is entirely down to fraud concerns due to the fact scan rates are pretty dire in most of the country.

PRT is allowed because it's deemed "controlled stock" because of the orange and green. Whether that makes sense is a discussion for another thread (and also whether that makes sense with more TVMs printing on plain paper, or printing eTickets instead of PRT)