Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[mansonlo49]

Does anyone know what the issue is how come there’s now 701 operating to reading since the ascot events last month? Thanks

 

[Goldfish62]

Does anyone know what the issue is how come there’s now 701 operating to reading since the ascot events last month? Thanks

That was a temporary arrangement for Royal Ascot only due to the heavy loadings.

 

[Stephen42]

Does anyone know what the issue is how come there’s now 701 operating to reading since the ascot events last month? Thanks

There hasn't been any issue raised, there is just no booked work to Reading in the current diagrams. One off events can pinch from other diagrams and/or rely on overtime to give more cover than would normally be available. There is a Reading diagram mentioned earlier on the thread, unclear when it will switch over especially as some of the original 14 not yet running.

Reading is partially covered by Farnham crews. Those crews are unlikely to be high up the training list as they don't cover much metro work aside from the Reading services. Rolling out 701s elsewhere should free up 458/4s and 450s for the Reading route reducing the 455 requirement.

 

[Goldfish62]

Rolling out 701s elsewhere should free up 458/4s and 450s for the Reading route reducing the 455 requirement.

Except 450s have moved from Reading services to the Kingston loop, for example.

 

[TEW]

Things may have changed, but based on the plan from a few months ago the next 3 diagrams to go over to 701 will include Reading.

 

[mansonlo49]

There hasn't been any issue raised, there is just no booked work to Reading in the current diagrams. One off events can pinch from other diagrams and/or rely on overtime to give more cover than would normally be available. There is a Reading diagram mentioned earlier on the thread, unclear when it will switch over especially as some of the original 14 not yet running.

Reading is partially covered by Farnham crews. Those crews are unlikely to be high up the training list as they don't cover much metro work aside from the Reading services. Rolling out 701s elsewhere should free up 458/4s and 450s for the Reading route reducing the 455 requirement.

So they’ve got a switch over of crew at Farnham is that means this?

 

[swtrains]

Today's testing (701028):

5T97 - Clapham Yard - Waterloo - goes to Waterloo, then down to Epsom, reverses and heads back to Waterloo.
5T98 - Waterloo - Waterloo - goes to Chessington South, reverses and heads back to Waterloo.
5T99 - Waterloo - Clapham Yard - goes to Guildford via Woking, reverses, and heads back to the Yard, finishing at around 5PM.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q63600/2025-07-08/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q63599/2025-07-08/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q63598/2025-07-08/detailed

 

[Flange Squeal]

So they’ve got a switch over of crew at Farnham is that means this?

No - it means Farnham drivers and guards work a number of Waterloo to Reading services. As the majority of staff at that depot haven’t yet been trained on 701s, then you can’t easily change a diagram that they work part of over to 701s as they won’t be able to work it. Diagrams would need to be carefully chosen so that over the course of the day the journeys on them are driven/guarded by depots that have a higher percentage of staff trained up. Obviously as more staff are trained up over time then this becomes easier.

 

[ctom_s]

Apologies if this has been covered already and I guess it's technically slightly off topic, but why are 455s being used on Waterloo to Reading whilst 450s are now running on suburban routes instead. Is it just certain diagrams were marked for 701s and the 701s aren't there yet so they have to use 455s? But if that's true then why not switch that 455 with a 450 running on a suburban route?

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Seems like the Windsor lines have slipped down the priority list. Not only are they not getting priority for 701s as they were getting at one point they are now getting short formed trains. Have they recovered less after COVID than the other routes? They always seem busy to me.

 

[mansonlo49]

No - it means Farnham drivers and guards work a number of Waterloo to Reading services. As the majority of staff at that depot haven’t yet been trained on 701s, then you can’t easily change a diagram that they work part of over to 701s as they won’t be able to work it. Diagrams would need to be carefully chosen so that over the course of the day the journeys on them are driven/guarded by depots that have a higher percentage of staff trained up. Obviously as more staff are trained up over time then this becomes easier.

Thanks for the detail

 

[Goldfish62]

Apologies if this has been covered already and I guess it's technically slightly off topic, but why are 455s being used on Waterloo to Reading whilst 450s are now running on suburban routes instead. Is it just certain diagrams were marked for 701s and the 701s aren't there yet so they have to use 455s? But if that's true then why not switch that 455 with a 450 running on a suburban route?

An example being the all-day weekday diagram including 2C12. Until the timetable change this was long term 450. This was swapped to 455 with the May timetable change, while inner suburban services saw a significant increase in 450 diagrams.

There obviously must be a logic to this, but I can't think what it is.

 

[wokspotter]

No - it means Farnham drivers and guards work a number of Waterloo to Reading services. As the majority of staff at that depot haven’t yet been trained on 701s, then you can’t easily change a diagram that they work part of over to 701s as they won’t be able to work it. Diagrams would need to be carefully chosen so that over the course of the day the journeys on them are driven/guarded by depots that have a higher percentage of staff trained up. Obviously as more staff are trained up over time then this becomes easier.

What exactly is the logic behind Farnham drivers and guards working the Waterloo to Reading diagrams?Do they have to travel all the way to Waterloo to do this?

 

[ctrh136]

Seems like the Windsor lines have slipped down the priority list. Not only are they not getting priority for 701s as they were getting at one point they are now getting short formed trains. Have they recovered less after COVID than the other routes? They always seem busy to me.

Seems like the Windsor diagrams are getting the 458/4s.
Which post has the list of current and upcoming 701 diagrams?

 

[mansonlo49]

0V76 didn’t went to Bicester today, but 5Q76 operated , hauled by 69013, now at Oxford

 

[Goldfish62]

Seems like the Windsor diagrams are getting the 458/4s.
Which post has the list of current and upcoming 701 diagrams?

A couple of Reading 450 diagrams moved over to 458/4 in May, together with a Windsor diagram which was previously a 701.

I imagine the 458/4s won't start being replaced with 701s until the 455s are fully eliminated.

 

[alanc]

0V76 didn’t went to Bicester today, but 5Q76 operated , hauled by 69013, now at Oxford

69013 came down to Bicester yesterday, now taking 701024 to Wimbledon

 

[swr444]

What exactly is the logic behind Farnham drivers and guards working the Waterloo to Reading diagrams?Do they have to travel all the way to Waterloo to do this?

there are or were a couple of late night readings which then leave empty from reading and go to Farnham (reversing at ascot) to stable overnight.

 

[Goldfish62]

there are or were a couple of late night readings which then leave empty from reading and go to Farnham (reversing at ascot) to stable overnight.

I don't believe they've run for a few years. Two pairs of units are stabled at Reading overnight (something only introduced post-Covid) and the others run back to Staines and beyond.

I'm surprised Farnham crews are trained on 455s.

 

[mansonlo49]

69013 came down to Bicester yesterday, now taking 701024 to Wimbledon

thanks

 

[TEW]

I don't believe they've run for a few years. Two pairs of units are stabled at Reading overnight (something only introduced post-Covid) and the others run back to Staines and beyond.

I'm surprised Farnham crews are trained on 455s.

There's still one which runs back to Farnham, although it runs in service as the 2352 Reading to Ascot then 0024 Ascot to Farnham. Often when there are events on at Twickenham and additional trains to and from Reading the stock will come from Farnham Depot too.

 

[Goldfish62]

There's still one which runs back to Farnham, although it runs in service as the 2352 Reading to Ascot then 0024 Ascot to Farnham. Often when there are events on at Twickenham and additional trains to and from Reading the stock will come from Farnham Depot too.

Thanks for the correction / clarification.

 

[Flange Squeal]

What exactly is the logic behind Farnham drivers and guards working the Waterloo to Reading diagrams?Do they have to travel all the way to Waterloo to do this?

In addition to @swr444 comment about past greater numbers of early morning empties from Farnham Shed to Reading and late night ones back (bearing in mind before Feltham opened, Farnham was one of the easiest places to reach with toilet emptying facilities and siding capacity so a good place for units to start/end their days), there are also the weekday peak services that provide through commuter services for Frimley, Camberley and Bagshot to London.

The logical place for stock for these services to start is Farnham Shed. It could be argued there’s no need for Farnham crew to sign Ascot to Reading, as Woking crews also have route knowledge to work these services without signing Reading as well, but Farnham crews signing Ascot to Reading also makes it a lot easier for stock for extra Twickenham rugby and Ascot horse racing services to run up from the Shed empty to Reading to start there, rather than relying solely on London crews and depots to supply all the extra crews and stock. That would likely rely on an even greater amount of voluntary overtime working if all the extra work had to be covered by a fewer spread of crew, which can’t be guaranteed, and stock. Farnham are the only depot that can get a train from the Shed there to Reading, as no other depot signs both Ascot to Farnham and Ascot to Reading.

I'm surprised Farnham crews are trained on 455s.

Signing 455s makes it a lot easier to keep route knowledge of the Guildford ‘New Line’ between Surbiton and Guildford via Cobham. That can prove a handy diversion option for when an incident or engineering work affects the mainline, as Haslemeres they’re working can then simply divert to avoid Woking and their Altons divert after Surbiton via Cobham then reverse at Guildford to reach Aldershot and beyond.

I believe certain link(s) at Fratton retain route knowledge of the New Line with a few Portsmouth services that run that way and skip Woking, but I’m not sure more services avoiding Woking and/or regular Altons diverting via Guildford and Cobham would prove particularly popular with passengers!

 

[Goldfish62]

In addition to @swr444 comment about past greater numbers of early morning empties from Farnham Shed to Reading and late night ones back (bearing in mind before Feltham opened, Farnham was one of the easiest places to reach with toilet emptying facilities and siding capacity so a good place for units to start/end their days), there are also the weekday peak services that provide through commuter services for Frimley, Camberley and Bagshot to London.

The logical place for stock for these services to start is Farnham Shed. It could be argued there’s no need for Farnham crew to sign Ascot to Reading, as Woking crews also have route knowledge to work these services without signing Reading as well, but Farnham crews signing Ascot to Reading also makes it a lot easier for stock for extra Twickenham rugby and Ascot horse racing services to run up from the Shed empty to Reading to start there, rather than relying solely on London crews and depots to supply all the extra crews and stock. That would likely rely on an even greater amount of voluntary overtime working if all the extra work had to be covered by a fewer spread of crew, which can’t be guaranteed, and stock. Farnham are the only depot that can get a train from the Shed there to Reading, as no other depot signs both Ascot to Farnham and Ascot to Reading.


Signing 455s makes it a lot easier to keep route knowledge of the Guildford ‘New Line’ between Surbiton and Guildford via Cobham. That can prove a handy diversion option for when an incident or engineering work affects the mainline, as Haslemeres they’re working can then simply divert to avoid Woking and their Altons divert after Surbiton via Cobham then reverse at Guildford to reach Aldershot and beyond.

I believe certain link(s) at Fratton retain route knowledge of the New Line with a few Portsmouth services that run that way and skip Woking, but I’m not sure more services avoiding Woking and/or regular Altons diverting via Guildford and Cobham would prove particularly popular with passengers!

Thanks - really interesting stuff.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

In addition to @swr444 comment about past greater numbers of early morning empties from Farnham Shed to Reading and late night ones back (bearing in mind before Feltham opened, Farnham was one of the easiest places to reach with toilet emptying facilities and siding capacity so a good place for units to start/end their days), there are also the weekday peak services that provide through commuter services for Frimley, Camberley and Bagshot to London.

The logical place for stock for these services to start is Farnham Shed. It could be argued there’s no need for Farnham crew to sign Ascot to Reading, as Woking crews also have route knowledge to work these services without signing Reading as well, but Farnham crews signing Ascot to Reading also makes it a lot easier for stock for extra Twickenham rugby and Ascot horse racing services to run up from the Shed empty to Reading to start there, rather than relying solely on London crews and depots to supply all the extra crews and stock. That would likely rely on an even greater amount of voluntary overtime working if all the extra work had to be covered by a fewer spread of crew, which can’t be guaranteed, and stock. Farnham are the only depot that can get a train from the Shed there to Reading, as no other depot signs both Ascot to Farnham and Ascot to Reading.

Signing 455s makes it a lot easier to keep route knowledge of the Guildford ‘New Line’ between Surbiton and Guildford via Cobham. That can prove a handy diversion option for when an incident or engineering work affects the mainline, as Haslemeres they’re working can then simply divert to avoid Woking and their Altons divert after Surbiton via Cobham then reverse at Guildford to reach Aldershot and beyond.

I believe certain link(s) at Fratton retain route knowledge of the New Line with a few Portsmouth services that run that way and skip Woking, but I’m not sure more services avoiding Woking and/or regular Altons diverting via Guildford and Cobham would prove particularly popular with passengers!

Thank you indeed. I was going to answer some of these points earlier today, but other (private) matters took me away from my screen. Thank you for explaining what was part of (my) bread and butter back in the day. For those who have worked the planning side of the overall picture, these things are a no brainer, although (understandably) those outside of planning may only be aware of a portion of why things are done as they are, and that includes crews themselves, who will be well aware of the reasons for this or that at their own depot, but not necessarily aware of issues applying to other depots.
Knowledge of certain depots by crews other than those based there (as you mention) can be a problem when it comes to service provision, but a judgement has to be taken. Where there are no depot drivers, the main line driver has to work the entire move(s), which in some cases can take them out of action (ie in relation main line work) for long periods of time. It is a very mixed and complicated jigsaw, as some on here will know.

But this is going in to another general planning scenario matter, so I will leave it there.

 

[markle]

deleted

 

[TEW]

The first proper Reading diagram should go over to 701 from next week, replacing an 8-455 diagram.

2C07 0550 Waterloo to Reading
2C18 0739 Reading to Waterloo
2C21 0920 Waterloo to Reading
2C32 1109 Reading to Waterloo
2C35 1250 Waterloo to Reading
2C46 1439 Reading to Waterloo
2C49 1620 Waterloo to Reading
2C60 1809 Reading to Waterloo
2C63 1950 Waterloo to Reading
2C74 2139 Reading to Waterloo
2O75 2330 Waterloo to Kingston

 

[swr444]

The first proper Reading diagram should go over to 701 from next week, replacing an 8-455 diagram.

2C07 0550 Waterloo to Reading
2C18 0739 Reading to Waterloo
2C21 0920 Waterloo to Reading
2C32 1109 Reading to Waterloo
2C35 1250 Waterloo to Reading
2C46 1439 Reading to Waterloo
2C49 1620 Waterloo to Reading
2C60 1809 Reading to Waterloo
2C63 1950 Waterloo to Reading
2C74 2139 Reading to Waterloo
2O75 2330 Waterloo to Kingston

Great news! Funny that on the July LTPs it’s showing as a 458 still. Hopefully the 0526 goes over soon

 

[TEW]

Great news! Funny that on the July LTPs it’s showing as a 458 still. Hopefully the 0526 goes over soon

The 0526 should be the next diagram so shouldn't be too long.

 

[MasterPhillips]

Great news! Funny that on the July LTPs it’s showing as a 458 still. Hopefully the 0526 goes over soon

Funnily enough yesterday 2 458/5s were operating a diagram in place of 2 458/4s. There was also a 4 car 455 running, hopefully this will happen less if there is a 701 in the mix.

Edit: looks like the 4 car 455 was switched out for the 10 car 458/5 at Waterloo around 1300.