Reminder that your railcard is about to expire?

[Howardh]

I bought my three-yr railcard online with my email address, it expires next year so I must remember to put that on the calendar. But made me wonder, do you get an e-mail reminder to renew, as I do with insurance etc?

 

[robbeech]

I bought my three-yr railcard online with my email address, it expires next year so I must remember to put that on the calendar. But made me wonder, do you get an e-mail reminder to renew, as I do with insurance etc?

Sometimes, sometimes not, it depends on who you bought it from and whether it works.

Your best bet is to assume you won’t get one and fend for yourself on it by doing exactly as you say and putting a note / reminder in your calendar.

 

[jfollows]

I bought my three-yr railcard online with my email address, it expires next year so I must remember to put that on the calendar. But made me wonder, do you get an e-mail reminder to renew, as I do with insurance etc?

Don’t rely on it, no. I use an electronic calendar so I put the expiry date in it when purchased.

 

[Howardh]

Thanks, on the calendar it goes next year then!

Please remind me, when's the earliest I can apply for a new one? Think my first was 4 weeks in advance but memory fades!

 

[jfollows]

Renew or Replace - Senior Railcard

www.senior-railcard.co.uk

30 days before expiry

 

[Gloster]

I use a paper Senior Railcard. I didn’t get a reminder this year, but got one last year. Last year the postal reminder arrived a couple of days after I had renewed, but that might be Royal Mail. Perhaps this year’s reminder is still in the post: it is only two months since it ran out…

 

[Howardh]

I use a paper Senior Railcard. I didn’t get a reminder this year, but got one last year. Last year the postal reminder arrived a couple of days after I had renewed, but that might be Royal Mail. Perhaps this year’s reminder is still in the post: it is only two months since it ran out…

Unreliable then! Hopefully when I re-apply my card comes on time. Be an interesting senario if I've paid for, but not received, my new card when the old one runs out. I hope the receipt will be enough if challenged?

 

[simonw]

I get reminders regularly. It may depend on which boxes you do/don't tick.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I hope the receipt will be enough if challenged?

Not sure it would be. (i.e. Railcard applied for, not yet received).

 

[Howardh]

I get reminders regularly. It may depend on which boxes you do/don't tick.

Thanks - I'm bound not to have ticked any boxes r/e receiving offers, marketing and so on!

 

[Adam Williams]

My own stance is that an expiry notification is not marketing (it's a service email), and it's entirely unreasonable to make receiving an expiry warning a condition of opting into marketing.

 

[simonw]

My own stance is that an expiry notification is not marketing (it's a service email), and it's entirely unreasonable to make receiving an expiry warning a condition of opting into marketing.

I would imagine the advice is that as such an email or message is likely to reference renewal it's classified as marketing.

 

[Adam Williams]

I would imagine the advice is that as such an email or message is likely to reference renewal it's classified as marketing.

If you're not trying to upsell the renewal or including an offer ("20% off if you renew now!") then I fundamentally disagree, and find it hard to see how it could be classified as anything but a service message. I would characterise such advice as poor advice.

The flip side of this is that if you're saying it is marketing, you're depriving everyone who's not opted into marketing from a very important warning related to the status of their Railcard and a reminder that they can be prosecuted if they travel without an in-date Railcard.

 

[Watershed]

If you're not trying to upsell the renewal or including an offer ("20% off if you renew now!") then I fundamentally disagree, and find it hard to see how it could be classified as anything but a service message. I would characterise such advice as poor advice.

The flip side of this is that if you're saying it is marketing, you're depriving everyone who's not opted into marketing from a very important warning related to the status of their Railcard and a reminder that they can be prosecuted if they travel without an in-date Railcard.

There is a fine line between a service email (e.g. "your Railcard expires on X date, please note you cannot travel on discounted tickets after this day") and a marketing email (e.g. "click here to renew your Railcard").

 

[simonw]

If you're not trying to upsell the renewal or including an offer ("20% off if you renew now!") then I fundamentally disagree, and find it hard to see how it could be classified as anything but a service message. I would characterise such advice as poor advice.

The flip side of this is that if you're saying it is marketing, you're depriving everyone who's not opted into marketing from a very important warning related to the status of their Railcard and a reminder that they can be prosecuted if they travel without an in-date Railcard.

No one is going to send an email that just says your railcard expire dd/mm/yyyy if they are in the business of selling railcards. They will always try and sell you a new one.

 

[Adam Williams]

There is a fine line between a service email (e.g. "your Railcard expires on X date, please note you cannot travel on discounted tickets after this day") and a marketing email (e.g. "click here to renew your Railcard").

I agree you need to use some common sense here, but I don't believe that including a link to manage a subscription automatically makes the email a marketing email.

Clearly there's some logic that should be applied (does the email try to convince the customer to renew by extolling the virtues of paying for another year of one-third-off discounted tickets? Is there a special offer that applies if the customer renews now? Is the bulk of the text discussing the implications of the Railcard expiring?), and I'd expect the ICO to use their brains a bit here.

They will always try and sell you a new one.

There's "trying to sell the customer a new one" and giving them a free choice for what they decide to do with their railcard (abandon it entirely, or commit to another year). Those things are different, IMO.

And if you've provided a good service during the last year of providing the Railcard, the service should sell itself.

 

[simonw]

I agree you need to use some common sense here, but I don't believe that including a link to manage a subscription automatically makes the email a marketing email.

Clearly there's some logic that should be applied (does the email try to convince the customer to renew by extolling the virtues of paying for another year of one-third off discounted tickets? Is there a special offer that applies if the customer renews now? Is the bulk of the text discussing the implications of the Railcard expiring?), and I'd expect the ICO to use their brains a bit here.


There's "trying to sell the customer a new one" and giving them a free choice for what they decide to do with their railcard (abandon it entirely, or commit to another year). Those things are different, IMO.

And if you've provided a good service during the last year of providing the Railcard, the service should sell itself.

We will have to agree to disagree as I see all this as marketing.

 

[Adam Williams]

We will have to agree to disagree as I see all this as marketing.

Try being less cynical one day, you'll be happier!

 

[simonw]

Try being less cynical one day, you'll be happier!

Hardly being a cynic, just experienced in the world of business. Anyway, moving on and back in the real world.

 

[Adam Williams]

experienced in the world of business

Not every business is there to and squeeze money out of its customers at every single opportunity.

 

[Jimini]

I buy mine direct. Four weeks out, I got this email:

Hi Jim,

Your Network Railcard expires on 21 June 2025.

After this date you will no longer be able to get 1/3 off rail travel.

You don't need to wait for your Railcard to expire. When you renew online your new Railcard will be valid from the day after your current one ends.

RENEW NOW​

…and then this one on the day it expired:

Hi Jim,

Your Network Railcard expired today.

From now on you can no longer get 1/3 off rail travel.

You can still renew by logging into your account and clicking ‘Renew’ next to your Railcard. Please note: if you choose to get a plastic card, it can take up to five days to arrive by post.

RENEW NOW​

Worked well for me — I did have a reminder in my calendar as a failsafe, but quite happy with that concise messaging.

 

[Watershed]

I agree you need to use some common sense here, but I don't believe that including a link to manage a subscription automatically makes the email a marketing email.

If it's a subscription service then I think that changes the position somewhat, since if you don't need to renew you presumably need to actively cancel.

 

[styles]

I buy mine direct. Four weeks out, I got this email:



…and then this one on the day it expired:



Worked well for me — I did have a reminder in my calendar as a failsafe, but quite happy with that concise messaging.

I think the wording of these strikes the right balance and would be covered by the 'legitimate interest' 'lawful basis' for processing.

It is worth noting that direct marketing is specifically listed as a potential legitimate interest.

I think most people who have railcards would agree that a reminder email about their railcard expiry would be a good use of their data processing. Tagging on a sentence about renewing it is hardly a serious misuse of their data.

In fact I would suggest the ORR would be pretty unhappy about not reminding people that their railcards are expiring, and would agree that adding a renewal link and two sentences stating the railcard can be renewed online in advance, is not really disobeying a customer's request to not receive marketing.

There are other examples of this for what it's worth, e.g. here's Royal Mail (with whom I opt out of marketing comms):

Your Redirection ends soon​

Dear XXX, We wanted you to know that your Redirection service ends on XX/YY/ZZZZ. When this service ends, any mail addressed to you at your old home will not be redirected to your new home. Should you wish to renew your Redirection service, you can do so online. You’ll need the information below when you log in via royalmail.com/renewal. We need at least 5 working days' notice to arrange your renewal to ensure there is not a break in service to your Redirection. If you have renewed your Redirection during the last few days, please ignore this email. Your online reference number: XXXXXXXXX Your online renewal code: XXXX

​ Renew my Redirection now​

Now I'm not suggesting Royal Mail never get anything wrong, but I think if the ICO were concerned about tagging a renewal option link onto the end of a reminder that an important service ends soon is an issue, they would've had words with Royal Mail, Railcards, etc.

If a subscription is set to auto-renew, you pretty much have to provide reminders about renewals under DMCC 2024 (the relevant provisions of which come into force in spring 2026). Nothing in these updated regs prohibit adding some marketing, so long as the other conditions are met and the reason for contact is about renewal/expiry. The consequences have to be explained in simple terms, so it can't just be a single line of reminder text in a body of 8 paragraphs of marketing. If Railcards were a subscription model, I'd think the wording of the above emails would comply with the new rules.

 

[davews]

I am now on my fifth 3-year senior rail card (!). Each time 30 days before expiry I got an email reminding me to renew.

 

[contrex]

I use a paper Senior Railcard. I didn’t get a reminder this year, but got one last year. Last year the postal reminder arrived a couple of days after I had renewed, but that might be Royal Mail. Perhaps this year’s reminder is still in the post: it is only two months since it ran out…

Same here, except that I buy annual ones in person at whatever station happens to be convenient. It has the renewal date in bloody great big characters across the front, and I get it out for a look everytime I plan a rail journey (about three or four times a month) or need to buy a ticket. It is prominently within my vision when I get it out for a ticket inspection. It lives in a little 3-card wallet supplied by Bristol Temple Meads ticket office, which also has a place for my bus pass. So not much excuse for not being aware. My daughter has just reminded me not to be too smug because there are people with dyspraxia, ADHD, limited vision, who lead busy lives, or who are just plain forgetful, who might slip up.

 

[Gloster]

Same here, except that I buy annual ones in person at whatever station happens to be convenient. It has the renewal date in bloody great big characters across the front, and I get it out for a look everytime I plan a rail journey (about three or four times a month) or need to buy a ticket. It is prominently within my vision when I get it it out for a ticket inspection. It lives in a little 3-card wallet supplied by Bristol Temple Meads ticket office, which also has a place for my bus pass. So not much excuse for not being aware. My daughter has just reminded me not to be too smug because there are people with dyspraxia, ADHD, limited vision, who lead busy lives, or who are just plain forgetful, who might slip up.

I also buy an annual card over the counter at Ryde Esplanade. When buying a ticket I always hold the card up in front of the window so that they can see the date, but I think that they do normally ask people to show the card just to check it is in date, possibly because of the large number of oldies on the island.

 

[fandroid]

I also buy an annual card over the counter at Ryde Esplanade. When buying a ticket I always hold the card up in front of the window so that they can see the date, but I think that they do normally ask people to show the card just to check it is in date, possibly because of the large number of oldies on the island.

That's normal procedure at any ticket office.

Senior Railcards are not the only Railcards, as is obvious when searching for the correct one out of a long list when purchasing tickets online.