Silverstone rail link - spur off of HS2?

[zwk500]

As for a rail link, is it really needed? At most, there is 5 busy weekends, with F1 and MotoGP drawing the big crowds, and the BTCC and BSB championships attracting about 35-40000 on race days. I'm not sure what size crowds you get for other events, but some of them will be tiny.

No, given that a significant part of the crowd would choose to drive anyway due to the nature of the event, and the helicopter crowd wouldn't dream of crowding onto a packed train. I lived in MK for about 5 years and the British GP was the only event that had even a modest local impact.

There's an extremely distant chance that if construction costs could be kept low a case could be made for Banbury-Brackly-Towcester-Northampton, which could include a Silverstone station that was provided with 12-car platforms, but in reality the race day public transport demand could likely be met more cost-effectively by setting up shuttle buses to Northampton, MKC and Banbury stations to complement all the P&R shuttles that were in operation (as already suggested).

 

[SynthD]

There are coaches from six stations and another six locations. Distribution is key, not a single point of failure.

As a community, we shouldn't be telling $Billion organisations who are prepared to spend £lots not to spend money on railway infrastructure!

The track owner, British Racing Drivers' Club, isn't a billion dollar organisation.

 

[mike57]

Looking at the cost and difficulties in building new lines it will never happen. Anything associated with HS2 will be jinxed from the start, and the nearest currently operational railway is probably the WCML just north of Milton Keyens at ~8 miles as the crow flies. Assume you could build it at £30m per mile, thats £240m, it just isnt going to happen.

 

[zwk500]

There are coaches from six stations and another six locations. Distribution is key, not a single point of failure.

Agreed

The track owner, British Racing Drivers' Club, isn't a billion dollar organisation.

No, but F1 is. And the BRDC is in a lot better position to be funding multi-million pound investment than, say, a county council. The British GP alone makes up about half of the BRDC's revenue each year, and the current F1 contract has a £30m/yr race fee paid by the BRDC to F1 for the next 10 years, so it's clearly worth a lot to them.
However, Silverstone Circuits Ltd (the operating company for the circuit) reported revenue of £96m and profit of £16m last year. https://warrenmenezes.substack.com/p/silverstone-circuit-secures-161m. If the circuit is only making £16m profit a year in a good year, they'll not be funding a rail line completely independently any time soon. The best that could be hoped for would be a contribution towards additional infrastructure at a hypothetical Towcester or Silverstone station if a line was ever built.

 

[4SubAsociation]

This took a while to write as I had to reference a few things

So building a rail link to Silverstone. Building a new circuit will probably cost more.

If you where to say hypothetically build a new circuit where there is good transport link already there is a very obvious issue in that people probably live there and the cost would be astronomical.

The video I have linked to is in America, but the point stands. This happened when land zoning around race track and potentially could of closed the circuit.

In the UK several race tracks have closed in the last ten years including Wimbledon, Arena Essex and Rockingham (Rockingham was built in the late 90s and did not last).

So could a existing circuit be upgraded? They tried at Donnington in the mid 2000s but this collapsed as they could not raise the money. As for other tracks they would be too small and with current F1 cars some would be close to lapping a circuit in 1min or less (see -

), have noise restrictions (brands hatch can only operate the GP circuit on certain days of the year, castle coombe has 100db noise limit), no space to expand (brands hatch that is the case) and have to be rated grade 1 fia standard (Silverstone is the only one, Donnington and brands is grade 2, Rockingham formerly)

 

[InTheEastMids]

I thought this was an interesting part of the country to get my crayons out for. I'd echo the issue that a Silverstone link would be virtually unused until the point when you had an event and it'd need to be like the SWR Metro operation for Twickenham match days. The problem is I think that it's hard to envisage enough demand from places like Brackley to justify a new railway.

To get year-round demand up for an HS2 station, I think it's, at minimum, new city at least the size of Milton Keynes, completely infilling the area between Brackley and Silverstone (plus A43 capacity upgrades and perhaps a new trunk road from A5 at Old Stratford to the M40 J11. None of this will be popular.

For convention rail, less development would presumably do e.g. Developing Whittlebury Park and the entire area north of the circuit enclosed by the A43/A413 might get to something similar to Brackley (plus customers from Towcester). This scale of development will not be popular either.

Where I got to with my crayoning around this area is the need to be really clear about what a railway would be for and what it is not for.
Without building something that looks like the pre-Beeching network, I couldn't see how to develop a single line that serves all of Silverstone/Towcester, Buckingham and Brackley whilst providomg both East-West connectivity (in particular to MK) as well as some kind of direct London option via e.g. Bicester or Aylesbury. It can't be all things to all people.

If somebody gave me £billions and told me I had to build something in the area, my vibes-based analysis would lead to (i) new-build Banbury - Brackley - Buckingham - Winslow EWR (ii) extra chord to allow Buckingham-Aylesbury and (iii) upgrade around Bletchley/MKC because all this means perhaps 8tph each way at Bletchley Upper and ~6 of those will be going to/from MKC.
Race-day buses to Silverstone from Brackley perhaps.

 

[edwin_m]

Whern't Chiltern talking at one time about extending north from Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Brackley? It's a relatively unpopulated area though, which is probably why both Silverstone and HS2 are there.

 

[BerkshireRails]

Whern't Chiltern talking at one time about extending north from Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Brackley? It's a relatively unpopulated area though, which is probably why both Silverstone and HS2 are there.

Yeah and then on to Rugby. I do see that route being a useful route.

 

[The Planner]

Whern't Chiltern talking at one time about extending north from Aylesbury Vale Parkway to Brackley? It's a relatively unpopulated area though, which is probably why both Silverstone and HS2 are there.

They looked at a lot of things that eventually sat on a too difficult pile.

 

[BerkshireRails]

They looked at a lot of things that eventually sat on a too difficult pile.

Hopefully post HS2 it is reconsidered as a way of improving the reach of the railway, with a 2tph London Marylebone to Rugby via Harrow-on-the-Hill, Aylesbury Vale Parkway and Brackley, with another 2tph doing London Marylebone to Milton Keynes Central via Harrow-on-the-Hill and Aylesbury Vale Parkway. With maybe a link to Buckingham, Silverstone and Towcester.

 

[The Planner]

Hopefully post HS2 it is reconsidered as a way of improving the reach of the railway, with a 2tph London Marylebone to Rugby via Harrow-on-the-Hill, Aylesbury Vale Parkway and Brackley, with another 2tph doing London Marylebone to Milton Keynes Central via Harrow-on-the-Hill and Aylesbury Vale Parkway. With maybe a link to Buckingham, Silverstone and Towcester.

Its not going to happen, this was back in the day when Chiltern had a long franchise and some free reign to suggest this sort of thing, even if it was incredibly remote of happening. There is next to zero chance of any reopening of the GCR. Rugby is vastly quicker via the WCML.

 

[redreni]

The correct solution for big events like this, imho, is lots of buses and coaches, running from railway stations, park & rides and even from bus & coach stations in major towns and cities. And crucially, make it so private cars have to pay a lot of money to queue to get in the car parks but the buses and coaches do not, because some of the access roads are reserved for public transport (and team personnel, sponsors etc).

And stop the nonsense where, when you buy a ticket, the website tries to sell you a car park ticket (whether on-site or park & ride) when it should be asking where you'll be travelling from and offering you suitable public transport options.

What you can't really justify is a lot of infrastructure for an event that happens once a year (subject to contract with F1).

 

[swt_passenger]

Yeah and then on to Rugby. I do see that route being a useful route.

Chiltern were required to come up with a longish list of possible improvements or extensions, the one which was subsequently chosen (with DfT’s agreement), was redoubling from a new junction south of Bicester through to Oxford. AIUI all the other listed proposals such as Rugby Parkway then lapsed, assumed never to be revisited.

 

[BerkshireRails]

Chiltern were required to come up with a longish list of possible improvements or extensions, the one which was subsequently chosen (with DfT’s agreement), was redoubling from a new junction south of Bicester through to Oxford. AIUI all the other listed proposals such as Rugby Parkway then lapsed, assumed never to be revisited.

They should be reviewed again to see if any other ones should be restored.

The correct solution for big events like this, imho, is lots of buses and coaches, running from railway stations, park & rides and even from bus & coach stations in major towns and cities. And crucially, make it so private cars have to pay a lot of money to queue to get in the car parks but the buses and coaches do not, because some of the access roads are reserved for public transport (and team personnel, sponsors etc).

And stop the nonsense where, when you buy a ticket, the website tries to sell you a car park ticket (whether on-site or park & ride) when it should be asking where you'll be travelling from and offering you suitable public transport options.

What you can't really justify is a lot of infrastructure for an event that happens once a year (subject to contract with F1).

Just because it is once a year shouldn't stop you from investing, as you should build a line to Buckingham, which might as well be extended to Silverstone, with Buckingham being the main reason and Silverstone being a secondary reason for the construction of the line.

 

[JamesT]

Just because it is once a year shouldn't stop you from investing, as you should build a line to Buckingham, which might as well be extended to Silverstone, with Buckingham being the main reason and Silverstone being a secondary reason for the construction of the line.

To Buckingham from where? If you’re going to Silverstone then presumably we’re looking at a North-South alignment?

 

[BerkshireRails]

To Buckingham from where? If you’re going to Silverstone then presumably we’re looking at a North-South alignment?

From Claydon most likely.

 

[Zomboid]

Just because it is once a year shouldn't stop you from investing

No, but it does limit the magnitude of what investment is sensible to somewhere short of a the kind of massive railway station and new lines which would be needed to serve it.

 

[Falcon1200]

Just because it is once a year shouldn't stop you from investing,

Just because it is once a year is exactly why 'you' should not be investing! - It is simply not justifiable. And anyway, did the transport arrangements over the weekend not actually work OK?

 

[BerkshireRails]

Just because it is once a year is exactly why 'you' should not be investing! - It is simply not justifiable. And anyway, did the transport arrangements over the weekend not actually work OK?

It is just like the Olympic games which happens rarely however when does happen major investments are made in public transport. Silverstone races supports the case for opening a line to Buckingham and Silverstone.

 

[zwk500]

It is just like the Olympic games which happens rarely however when does happen major investments are made in public transport. Silverstone races supports the case for opening a line to Buckingham and Silverstone.

The Olympic games is almost always followed by massive housing development of the Athlete's village. Unless you are proposing a new Silverstone garden town, the case for building a railway line for, in effect, 1 race a year, will remain abysmally poor.

 

[Zomboid]

It is just like the Olympic games which happens rarely however when does happen major investments are made in public transport. Silverstone races supports the case for opening a line to Buckingham and Silverstone.

It really doesn't.

A line to Buckingham etc needs to be viable for the 362 days a year when the F1 circus is not at Silverstone.

 

[Acfb]

I doubt this idea is feasible. I haven't been to the racecourse itself although my cousin used Silverstone Golf Club for the wedding reception.

I don't know what proportion of Silverstone visitors use coaches etc as opposed to their own cars. Does anyone have the data?

 

[Bald Rick]

The correct solution for big events like this, imho, is lots of buses and coaches, running from railway stations, park & rides and even from bus & coach stations in major towns and cities. And crucially, make it so private cars have to pay a lot of money to queue to get in the car parks but the buses and coaches do not, because some of the access roads are reserved for public transport (and team personnel, sponsors etc).

Which is precisely what happens! the parking cost is astronomical, yet most people still do it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It really doesn't.

A line to Buckingham etc needs to be viable for the 362 days a year when the F1 circus is not at Silverstone.

The only line that would be viable from Buckingham would be one to MK, really. For London commuting most people would drive to Bletchley, MKC or Aylesbury Vale Parkway to avoid changing trains. (Or Bicester North, but the fares are a fair way higher unless going to Brum).

I think the best you would be likely to get would be a shuttle bus to Winslow station. Perhaps could be funded in conjunction with the uni. What's viable could be informed by what ends up happening to the X5 post East West Rail opening.

 

[Benjwri]

It is just like the Olympic games which happens rarely however when does happen major investments are made in public transport. Silverstone races supports the case for opening a line to Buckingham and Silverstone.

The Olympics was a national event, and was funded by the government. Hence rail upgrades were also funded by the government. As mentioned by other posters there was a significant business case from other beneficiaries. Take a trip on a train to Stratford, they are very well used every day of the year, it has become a destination in its own right.

The Olympics was just an excuse to fund existing projects. Do you really think Silverstone will generate sufficient passengers every day of the year to justify a railways existence?

If there really was need for a railway line then the circuit should make significant contribution to its existence, proportional to the benefit to their circuit compared to the other areas served (i.e. a very larger proportion), just how developments such as Battersea Power Station have.

 

[Falcon1200]

It is just like the Olympic games which happens rarely however when does happen major investments are made in public transport. Silverstone races supports the case for opening a line to Buckingham and Silverstone.

The situation around Stratford (East London) is rather different from that around Buckingham and a rarely-used racecourse in Northamptonshire, and the traffic demands are therefore also hugely greater at the former.

 

[John R]

Which is precisely what happens! the parking cost is astronomical, yet most people still do it.

If you park at the satellite sites and get the bus in it’s not unreasonable for a big event, and in my experience it works reasonably well.

Having been to F1 races in Barcelona and Budapest last year the public transport options were slow and involved a lot of walking and queuing. In both cases it took between 2 1/2 to 3 hours from the city centre to actually sitting down in my seat and vice versa. I’m not looking forward to Monza in that respect either.

So I think you have to recognise that long journeys and queuing comes with the territory when it comes to F1, unless you have a street circuit or as in Montreal where it is very close to the centre. But even there having waited 45 mins after the race to set off, it still took 90 mins to get back to the hotel.

 

[frankmoh]

Brands Hatch doesn't even have a railway station, and that's in the Southeast just 3 miles away from Farningham Road Station. I'm surprised nothing was built back in the 60s-80s when the track used to host F1. If there isn't a normal "slow" rail station to a race track then there is no chance at all that a spur off of HS2 will be built.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regard to HS2 this is one good example of something an M25 Parkway might have been good for, in conjunction with a large fleet of coaches and through bookings?

 

[zwk500]

With regard to HS2 this is one good example of something an M25 Parkway might have been good for, in conjunction with a large fleet of coaches and through bookings?

Silverstone is a decent distance from the M25, it would be a slog up the busiest section of the M1. It's one thing an EWR/HS2 interchange that some called for might have been good for, as the coach shuttle would be more or less up and down the A43. However that would still have been an exceptionally poor reason to build such a station.