Railcard fraud

[isukzw]

Thank you for confirming.

It is important you reply to the letter. I would recommend you send a reply that includes the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

I would also be careful to avoid incriminating yourself further, however I would apologise for the listed incidents on the sheet (provided they are all correct).

I would avoid giving too much of a sob story as the companies are used to receiving these and it is unlikely to make a difference to the outcome of the case.

Please upload a draft of your response to the forum so we can recommend any changes to make before you send it.

I am writing in response to your recent letter outlining the journeys I made using an expired railcard. I would like to sincerely apologise for my actions during this period. I fully acknowledge that I travelled without a valid railcard on the dates listed in your notice, including the journey on 17th February and the other occasions you have detailed.



I deeply regret my failure to renew my railcard on time and the fact that I continued to travel without checking its validity. This was a serious lapse of judgment on my part and I accept full responsibility for it. I have purchased a new valid railcard, which I have attached as proof.



I have learned a valuable lesson from this experience and I fully understand the seriousness of travelling without a valid ticket. I am determined never to repeat this mistake.



I respectfully ask that you allow me to settle this matter without it proceeding to court. I am willing to pay the outstanding fares for all the journeys made during this period, as well as any reasonable administrative costs your company has incurred in dealing with this case.



I genuinely regret my actions and I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience and extra work this has caused for your staff. I hope you will accept my offer to settle this directly and allow me the opportunity to make amends without the need for further legal action.



Thank you for taking the time to read my statement and for considering my request.

 

[AlterEgo]

Other than the first letter from *Northern* (a second train company is involved which I'm not sure has been picked up on) - have you head anything from them? Or paid anything to them?

 

[isukzw]

I am writing in response to your recent letter outlining the journeys I made using an expired railcard. I would like to sincerely apologise for my actions during this period. I fully acknowledge that I travelled without a valid railcard on the dates listed in your notice, including the journey on 17th February and the other occasions you have detailed.





I also want to apologise for not paying the original penalty fares when they were issued. I regret not resolving this matter sooner and for any additional time and resources this has caused your team.





Since then, I have purchased a new valid railcard, which I have attached as proof. I have learned an important lesson from this experience and I fully understand the seriousness of what I did. I assure you it will not happen again.





I respectfully ask that you allow me to settle this matter without it proceeding to court. I am willing to pay the outstanding fares for all the journeys made during this period, as well as any reasonable administrative costs your company has incurred in dealing with this case.





Once again, I am truly sorry for my actions and the inconvenience I have caused. I hope you will accept my offer to resolve this directly and allow me the chance to make amends.





Thank you for considering my statement and request.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2025 ==

Other than the first letter from *Northern* (a second train company is involved which I'm not sure has been picked up on) - have you head anything from them? Or paid anything to them?

Northern

Other than the first letter from *Northern* (a second train company is involved which I'm not sure has been picked up on) - have you head anything from them? Or paid anything to them?

I got an email from northern saying they’ve canceled the decision of a penalty fare and may consider legal action. The letter from tranpennie express was the letter that listed all the times travelled

 

[AlterEgo]

I got an email from northern saying they’ve canceled the decision of a penalty fare and may consider legal action.

When was this, and did you make any reply?

Show us the email, with your details removed.

Thus has the potential to make your situation very complicated.

 

[isukzw]

When was this, and did you make any reply?

Show us the email, with your details removed.

Thus has the potential to make your situation very complicated.

It came in with the letter from transpennie express

 

[Hadders]

I'm confused as to exactly what has happened here.

I can see letters from both Northern and Transpennine Express. There seems to have been three incidents where you were caught:

There was an incident involving Northern on 9th May where your details were taken
There was an incident with Transpennine Express on 17th February, again details seem to have been taken
I can also see that Northern issued you with a Penalty Fare on 30th April but have cancelled this because it has not been paid and are now pursuing the matter in others ways (presumably through the courts)

Frankly, your going to find it very difficult to keep all of this out of court. Given the number of incidents involved I think it might be best to engage a solicitor specialising in rail fare evasion. Be aware that this will be very expensive given that you're dealing with two different train companies.

 

[AlterEgo]

It came in with the letter from transpennie express

In the same envelope? Surely not - they are separate companies.

Also, please answer the questions people ask you here. Did you make any reply? If so, what did you say? Did you pay Northern anything?

 

[isukzw]

In the same envelope? Surely not - they are separate companies.

Also, please answer the questions people ask you here. Did you make any reply? If so, what did you say? Did you pay Northern anything?

Hello, no different letters, I haven’t replied to any yet, I just saw the mail yesterday

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2025 ==

Hello, no different letters, I haven’t replied to any yet, I just saw the mail yesterday

I haven’t made any payment as yet, do you think I should call northern this morning? Appealing to allow me pay the fine even if the option has been closed

 

[dosxuk]

I haven’t made any payment as yet, do you think I should call northern this morning? Appealing to allow me pay the fine even if the option has been closed

I think, frankly, you've buried your head in the sand too long for you to be able to unpick this by yourself. This isn't going to go away by paying a couple of penalty fares, even if for some reason they would let you pay them after they'd been cancelled. That TPE suspect around 100 other cases of fare evasion means it's only a matter of time before Northern also discover the same thing - and if both of them are demanding payment for all previous occasions this could get very expensive to sort out.

It's somewhat surprising you were offered three penalty fares for the same offence. That you then decided not to pay any of them - and then compounded that failure to pay with an obvious lie - they will be able to see when you bought your new railcard just as easily as you can - and know straight away that it wasn't valid when you were stopped - just beggars belief in all honesty. A question sometimes asked on these pages is "how far should offending go before an out-of-court settlement isn't offered?" and it seems you are trying to set a new benchmark with this case.

You've got yourself in a huge mess here. Start working out a timeline of what happened - exactly what incidents, where and when - what letters / emails have been sent and received - and what tickets did you actually have. Then take all that and go get some proper legal advice. You need to take this seriously, and it is not going to just go away. If you try fobbing either company off they will simply prosecute you and leave you with a criminal record and fines.

 

[AlterEgo]

I haven’t made any payment as yet, do you think I should call northern this morning? Appealing to allow me pay the fine even if the option has been closed

No. They have cancelled the penalty fare; there is nothing to pay.

Do not call anyone. Correspond in writing or by email only.

Given how deep you're in the mud here and your lack of capacity to understand or rationalise what is going on I recommend instructing a solicitor who can sit down with you and work out what had gone on and exactly what the state of play is.

 

[GadgetMan]

I think you need to help us understand what the timeline is as its still a little jumbled.

Can you answer the following please...

1) Date previous rail card expired?
2) what type of railcard was it?

3) Date you purchased new railcard?
4) What type of railcard was the new one?

5) Date you got stopped by Northern Trains?

6) Date you got stopped by TPE the first time?
7) Date you got stopped by TPE the second time?

8) The 100 journeys/tickets they have mentioned, were they all bought and used whilst you did not have a railcard or were some of the tickets/journeys made after you purchased the new railcard therefore were made validly, if so TPE should adjust/reduce the number of tickets in question once you send them evidence of railcard.

9) What railcard discount did you select for the 100 tickets they are questioning?

 

[isukzw]

I think you need to help us understand what the timeline is as its still a little jumbled.

Can you answer the following please...

1) Date previous rail card expired?
2) what type of railcard was it?

3) Date you purchased new railcard?
4) What type of railcard was the new one?

5) Date you got stopped by Northern Trains?

6) Date you got stopped by TPE the first time?
7) Date you got stopped by TPE the second time?

8) The 100 journeys/tickets they have mentioned, were they all bought and used whilst you did not have a railcard or were some of the tickets/journeys made after you purchased the new railcard therefore were made validly, if so TPE should adjust/reduce the number of tickets in question once you send them evidence of railcard.

9) What railcard discount did you select for the 100 tickets they are questioning?

1) previous railcard expired in 2024
2)26-30
3) 14/05/25
4)26-30
5)10th April and 30th April
6)TPE, 17th February
7)all tickets recorded was purchase for both TPe and northern with an expired railcard, more on northern
9) it was half price

 

[AlterEgo]

9) it was half price

What railcard was it? That doesn’t narrow it down. Was it a 16-17 Saver, or a JobCentre Plus discount card, for example?

The 26-30 card doesn’t give a half price discount.

 

[isukzw]

What railcard was it? That doesn’t narrow it down. Was it a 16-17 Saver, or a JobCentre Plus discount card, for example?

The 26-30 card doesn’t give a half price discount.

I just checked, the 26-30 saves 1/3 on all train rides

 

[KirkstallOne]

I think you just need to grasp this by the horns and email both companies separately. You have made a bit of mess for yourself by not renewing this railcard sooner and ignoring these penalty fares but this will only get worse if you do not engage fully now.

This advice is based on the assumption that you have only been travelling with 26-30 railcard discounted tickets without possessing the railcard, despite you being eligible for the railcard.

- You apologise for not responding to their communications, you have been struggling to keep your administrative affairs in order
- You apologise that you have made journey(s) with an expired railcard
- That you have now purchased a new railcard
- To Northern, recognise the two penalty fares and all letters send so far (give reference numbers and dates)
- To TPE, recognise the one penalty fare and all letters (again give reference numbers and dates)
- Ask if they would consider settling these matters out of court and if so are they able to provide a full and final settlement figure

However there is no need to incriminate yourself or admit anything in your correspondence beyond the agreed facts (the three penalty fares although not clear what you have already said to these companies).

Before you compose these emails you really need to sit down and set out all the events and communications you have received in chronological order for each company separately. The account you have given so far is very difficult for the forum to follow.

 

[John R]

I just checked, the 26-30 saves 1/3 on all train rides

Along with post #38 we've had to correct things you have said twice in short order, based on our knowledge that it couldn't be right. You need to be much more precise and accurate in terms of answering the questions we are asking. If you do end up using a solicitor, and continue to provide vague and inaccurate answers at the very least it will add to the amount they will charge you trying to unpick what you have done, and at worst it could make the difference between success and failure in achieving an out of court settlement.

And similarly, we can only help you if you give complete and accurate answers to our questions.

 

[skyhigh]

And similarly, we can only help you if you give complete and accurate answers to our questions.

As things stand, I don't think it's possible for the forum to sort this one out. It's too much of a mess and it's proving almost impossible to get accurate information from the OP.

They really need somebody to sit down with them, look at everything and go through it all in detail. That means professional representation.

Providing advice based on only half the information and misunderstandings is more likely to harm the interests of the OP than help them, even if that advice is given with good intentions.

 

[SuspectUsual]

As things stand, I don't think it's possible for the forum to sort this one out. It's too much of a mess and it's proving almost impossible to get accurate information from the OP.

They really need somebody to sit down with them, look at everything and go through it all in detail. That means professional representation.

Providing advice based on only half the information and misunderstandings is more likely to harm the interests of the OP than help them, even if that advice is given with good intentions.

We can offer good advice, as can a professional, but neither will be able to unless the OP is completely open and honest and provides properly detailed information. At least on here it’s not costing them hundreds of pounds. Of the OP gets legal representation and carries on like this it’ll be a complete waste of money

 

[Honestviews]

To Northern, recognise the two penalty fares and all letters send so far (give reference numbers and dates)
- To TPE, recognise the one penalty fare and all letters (again give reference numbers and dates)

In fact i think we have established that there was only one penalty fare as Hadders has set out, copy below.

"There was an incident involving Northern on 9th May where your details were taken
There was an incident with Transpennine Express on 17th February, again details seem to have been taken
I can also see that Northern issued you with a Penalty Fare on 30th April but have cancelled this because it has not been paid and are now pursuing the matter in others ways (presumably through the courts)"

 

[enyoueffsea]

I’m not sure how useful it is for this thread to continue as the OP does not appear able to give a consistent answer to the questions posed which are required to understand the current position and give accurate advice.

My view is the OP should seek the advice and representation of a fare evasion specialist solicitor. They’ve got into a horrendous mess with all of this and I suspect may struggle to keep it out of court without a solicitor to help them navigate the situation.

Any advice given on here runs a risk of being incorrect based on the OP not giving a clear account of the circumstances which could lead to further issues.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think you just need to grasp this by the horns and email both companies separately. You have made a bit of mess for yourself by not renewing this railcard sooner and ignoring these penalty fares but this will only get worse if you do not engage fully now.

This advice is based on the assumption that you have only been travelling with 26-30 railcard discounted tickets without possessing the railcard, despite you being eligible for the railcard.

- You apologise for not responding to their communications, you have been struggling to keep your administrative affairs in order
- You apologise that you have made journey(s) with an expired railcard
- That you have now purchased a new railcard
- To Northern, recognise the two penalty fares and all letters send so far (give reference numbers and dates)
- To TPE, recognise the one penalty fare and all letters (again give reference numbers and dates)
- Ask if they would consider settling these matters out of court and if so are they able to provide a full and final settlement figure

However there is no need to incriminate yourself or admit anything in your correspondence beyond the agreed facts (the three penalty fares although not clear what you have already said to these companies).

Before you compose these emails you really need to sit down and set out all the events and communications you have received in chronological order for each company separately. The account you have given so far is very difficult for the forum to follow.

FWIW I agree with this advice, having followed the thread, and if the OP can compose suitable letters I would think this is worth a try. I can't see that there is anything to loose by trying this.

it's either do this as suggested by @KirkstallOne , or go to a solicitor now and hand it all over to the solicitor to see if they can sort it out (think c£750 - £1000 legal fee for the work required - and it needs to be a legal firm with appropriate knowledge of rail fare evasion law I would think)

The OP could try following @KirkstallOne 's advice and if that did not work then pay for a solicitors help. Or face up to the fact they are going to be prosecuted in court - either by one or both of Trans Pennine Express or Northern Trains

 

[styles]

I don't think I'm quite as pessimistic about this as others, but I am not highly experienced in this.

Unless TPE and Northern are talking to each other (and there are Data Protection Act questions over whether they could, though ultimately I think they could justify it); if OP sends a separate letter to Northern and TPE, and is very careful not to mention to TPE that Northern are investigating and not mention to Northern that TPE are investigating; then it's two separate cases of fare evasion with operators who are generally known to be open to out of court settlements.

Personally I'd be inclined to send separate letters and hope for two out of court settlements. If it doesn't work, then engage a specialist solicitor.

But I agree with others saying OP needs to be much more precise about things. Be factually correct, honest, but concise and avoid adding extra incriminating information.

It is going to cost a fair whack either way.

Whatever they decide to do, I would prepare fully, then take action ASAP. The longer this is left, the less chance of success.

 

[Haywain]

hand it all over to the solicitor to see if they can sort it out (think c£750 - £1000 legal fee for the work required

I think with 3 separate cases on the go the legal fees would be quite a bit higher than that.

 

[KirkstallOne]

I think with 3 separate cases on the go the legal fees would be quite a bit higher than that.

Yes it is going to be higher than usual I’m sure as they will have to initiate correspondence with the two TOCs at minimum.

It does seem there is a big question around whether we are being given the whole story though as it is unusual behaviour to get stopped multiple times for an expired railcard and still not renew it. Is this really the full story OP?

 

[skyhigh]

if OP sends a separate letter to Northern and TPE, and is very careful not to mention to TPE that Northern are investigating and not mention to Northern that TPE are investigating; then it's two separate cases of fare evasion with operators who are generally known to be open to out of court settlements.

The problem there is that they are also both known to investigate purchase history - indeed TPE already have. You run the high risk of both TOCs asking for a settlement covering the 100+ trips made and the only way of getting out of paying both being mentioning the other investigation.

This then turns into "you've been caught 3 times but carried on and wrote a letter to us lying about the situation".

The situation is a mess, and needs to be handled carefully. I'm not sure there is an easy way out of this, the normal 'I'm sorry I won't do this again' type letter is unlikely to be enough.

 

[styles]

The problem there is that they are also both known to investigate purchase history - indeed TPE already have. You run the high risk of both TOCs asking for a settlement covering the 100+ trips made and the only way of getting out of paying both being mentioning the other investigation.

This then turns into "you've been caught 3 times but carried on and wrote a letter to us lying about the situation".

The situation is a mess, and needs to be handled carefully. I'm not sure there is an easy way out of this, the normal 'I'm sorry I won't do this again' type letter is unlikely to be enough.

Yes that's a risk. But they don't actually have proof and the onus is on them tomorrow it.

I didn't suggest lying to either of them. In fact I said to be honest with them.

Assuming they don't lie, it's unlikely to significantly harm their defence trying to get two out of court settlements instead of one.

 

[Haywain]

But they don't actually have proof and the onus is on them tomorrow it.

They've got enough to prosecute one offence (each) and the cost of avoiding that outcome will be to settle the remainder on top. The TOCs don't need that actual "proof".

 

[styles]

They've got enough to prosecute one offence (each) and the cost of avoiding that outcome will be to settle the remainder on top. The TOCs don't need that actual "proof".

They need proof of anything they want to (successfully) prosecute. They've got a journey each at the moment, which means they can prosecute.

So the options are what, accept a prosecution is inevitable, instruct a specialised solicitor, and get a criminal record;

or make an attempt at two out of court settlements, possibly avoid prosecution, but aware that it could fail and they then accept a prosecution is inevitable, instruct a specialised solicitor, and get a criminal record.

Unless they say something misleading or untrue which would hard their credibility in court, I can't see why it's not worth trying to get two out of court settlements?

 

[Haywain]

They need proof of anything they want to (successfully) prosecute.

Which they have.

So the options are what, accept a prosecution is inevitable, instruct a specialised solicitor, and get a criminal record;

or make an attempt at two out of court settlements, possibly avoid prosecution, but aware that it could fail and they then accept a prosecution is inevitable, instruct a specialised solicitor, and get a criminal record.

It is not obvious that instructing a solicitor will result in a criminal record or avoiding one. It's probably a safe bet that it will result in a vastly inflated cost for the OP though, whatever the outcome.

Unless they say something misleading or untrue which would hard their credibility in court, I can't see why it's not worth trying to get two out of court settlements?

On current performance they would be well advised to keep their trap firmly closed if any of this goes to court.

 

[Honestviews]

Unless they say something misleading or untrue which would hard their credibility in court, I

The op has already done that by an email that sent which said.

"At the time of inspection, I was unable to present my railcard due to unexpected internet issues that prevented me from accessing the digital version on my phone.."

But OP had said in fact his railcard expired in 2024 and he purchased a new railcard at some point after being stopped.