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Avanti London services from Liverpool Lime St

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Sorcerer

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Erm, a seven car Evero doesn't fit in Liverpool South Parkway either. And Pendolinos don't fit everywhere they currently stop anyway...
I am aware, but like I said, the Evero is better for stopping at South Parkway since there would be less selective door opening. Platforms 1 and 2 at South Parkway are 124 and 138 metres respectively. A seven-coach 807 with 26-metre coaches is 182 metres long, so you'd just about squeeze five of those coaches in the platform. Meanwhile a 9-coach 390 is 217.4 metres long and can't offer the same SDO, and even where the eleven-coach units don't fit you can only cut off the rear two coaches.

However, as pointed out we are kind of getting off track from the original subject of compulsory reservations, which seems to have been answered already. Any compulsory reservations would've been a product of the pandemic era and are most likely no longer an actual practice. Plus if reservations were compulsory than the unreserved coaches on both 390s and 807s would be redundant.
 
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Peter0124

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What happens to the South Parkway call in an unlikely event the train is swapped to a Pendolino?
 

Starmill

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I am aware, but like I said, the Evero is better for stopping at South Parkway since there would be less selective door opening. Platforms 1 and 2 at South Parkway are 124 and 138 metres respectively. A seven-coach 807 with 26-metre coaches is 182 metres long, so you'd just about squeeze five of those coaches in the platform. Meanwhile a 9-coach 390 is 217.4 metres long and can't offer the same SDO, and even where the eleven-coach units don't fit you can only cut off the rear two coaches.

However, as pointed out we are kind of getting off track from the original subject of compulsory reservations, which seems to have been answered already. Any compulsory reservations would've been a product of the pandemic era and are most likely no longer an actual practice. Plus if reservations were compulsory than the unreserved coaches on both 390s and 807s would be redundant.
The reality is that the fleet as ordered was about how much finance was available and what the best value for money options on the market were within the delivery timeframe. It's not because Liverpool South Parkway is OK with 6 20m coaches or 5 26m ones and wouldn't be with more, as demonstrated by the fact that there is indeed more. That's a nice side benefit.
 

dk1

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As already mentioned, a seven-coach Evero has almost the same number of seats as a nine-coach Pendolino (and more standard class seating to boot), with the added advantage of being able to stop at South Parkway where platform extension is not possible due to a bridge on the north end and Allerton Junction on the south end, and where demolition would put passengers in the south at a disadvantage. The 807s were a much-needed compromise for an additional Liverpool service even if they aren't quite as nice as a Pendolino (and I'll be travelling on both very soon to compare them).
You’ll like both the 805s & 807s. Very pleasant units to travel on.
 

Sorcerer

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You’ll like both the 805s & 807s. Very pleasant units to travel on.
I'm looking forward to it already then! I might even check some of the seat reservations to see just to see how many people actually book them since that would be quite interesting to see.
 

6Gman

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As already mentioned, a seven-coach Evero has almost the same number of seats as a nine-coach Pendolino (and more standard class seating to boot), with the added advantage of being able to stop at South Parkway where platform extension is not possible due to a bridge on the north end and Allerton Junction on the south end, and where demolition would put passengers in the south at a disadvantage. The 807s were a much-needed compromise for an additional Liverpool service even if they aren't quite as nice as a Pendolino (and I'll be travelling on both very soon to compare them).
In my opinion, Everos are more comfortable than Pendolinos. More spacious, bigger windows (?) and better seat/window spacing.
 

tsyxa

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bigger windows (?)
Certainly feels like it. On my first (and only until the end of this month) journey on the WCML i took a 390 south and an 805 doubled up back up north. The lack of big windows in the 390 made me nauseous when stood, and when we finally found seats felt cramped as they were so low down. The 805 back was absolute luxury- so much room, tables which alighned with the windows, SO spacious inside (bear in mind i’m used to the tapered body of the 222) and quite smooth I thought actually. Definitely preferred the 805. They also just felt less dingy and more sleek.
 

Mikey C

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Certainly feels like it. On my first (and only until the end of this month) journey on the WCML i took a 390 south and an 805 doubled up back up north. The lack of big windows in the 390 made me nauseous when stood, and when we finally found seats felt cramped as they were so low down. The 805 back was absolute luxury- so much room, tables which alighned with the windows, SO spacious inside (bear in mind i’m used to the tapered body of the 222) and quite smooth I thought actually. Definitely preferred the 805. They also just felt less dingy and more sleek.
More spacious, bigger windows with smaller "wall" areas, but a less comfortable ride.
 

SCDR_WMR

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As already mentioned, a seven-coach Evero has almost the same number of seats as a nine-coach Pendolino (and more standard class seating to boot), with the added advantage of being able to stop at South Parkway where platform extension is not possible due to a bridge on the north end and Allerton Junction on the south end,
Didn't stop the temporary extensions happening to Parkway when Lime At was unavailable.
 

Sorcerer

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Didn't stop the temporary extensions happening to Parkway when Lime At was unavailable.
But that's exactly what it was though, a temporary extension, and one of Platform 4 specifically where trains had to proceed along the Down Slow before the driver would change cabs and cross the trains over to the Up Fast line. Never would that be considered acceptable as a regular practice though.
 

Bald Rick

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I’m sure the great British public and many on here will still find something to drip about even then :rolleyes:

24 trains daily southbound but only 23 trains northbound. That’s discrimination against people who want to go to Liverpool!!!
 

Travelmonkey

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Is this extra finally the much bigged up Lichfield stopper. Short platforms will always be a issue one that springs to mind for me is Long Eaton & Beeston on the MML. It does seem like a flaw with the pendos that SDO and a odd quirk with Liverpool South parkway. I know Coventry and Haymarket is also too short for the 11 coach but those are within the SDO of the units.

As for capacity there is one less wheelchair space on the Everos compared to the Pendalinos so 7 coach evero has 2 (1 in each class) vs 9 coach Pendalino 3 (2 standard 1 First/SP)
 

AndrewE

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The additional Liverpool services serve Lichfield and Tamworth but are operated by 390s.
that sounds like (potentially) a really great improvement for connections off the northern WCML to pick up XC at Tamworth. If the timings are right it might even be worth an extra change off the Scotland-Brum trains to get to (e.g.) Burton or Derby
 

hexagon789

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that sounds like (potentially) a really great improvement for connections off the northern WCML to pick up XC at Tamworth. If the timings are right it might even be worth an extra change off the Scotland-Brum trains to get to (e.g.) Burton or Derby
This is the augmented service from 15th September, there are presently 4 fewer Liverpools each way but gives an idea:
 

childwallblues

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I have tried to book tickets for 22/08 from Liverpool to Milton Keynes but it seems that on that particular day services from Liverpool are calling at Nuneaton. Avanti will book you as far as Nuneaton and then transfer you on to the LNW Crewe to London service. Getting on thar service with suitcases at Nuneaton is a no no so I have booked with LNW changing at Crewe to ensure getting a seat.
 

AndrewE

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This is the augmented service from 15th September, there are presently 4 fewer Liverpools each way but gives an idea:
Oh great... not a single one of those seems to call at Crewe! Yet another connectivity option thrown away... (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...25-09-15/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt)
 

Travelmonkey

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AndrewE

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Definitely a great improvement. Definitely more connectivity is good for sure also means 2 tph to London too.
but connectivity from Liverpool only! Much as I love Liverpool I wish these extra trains home called at Crewe...
 
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