745 has also hit the road. 726 and 747 are at Volvo Broxburn.
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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)
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stevenedin
Established Member
461 is now at Marine
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
466 is at Broxburn
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
466 is at Broxburn
SilentWatcher
Member
- Joined
- 19 Jul 2019
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- 32
In theory this is possible, but fares would dictate a lot of this. While the train is undeniably quicker, the bus would definitely have an appeal for those who wanted to spend less and weren't so fussed about the journey time
computerSaysNo
Established Member
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I agree, and I think those with a concession card will find the bus has more of a "pull" factor, but the difference in journey time is going to be so extreme that I can see people being willing to pay more for the train. A random train journey I just checked shows Winchburgh Junction to Haymarket is just nine minutes, and to Waverley is only 14. Compared to the X38 which at the same time of day is timetabled for 44 minutes to Haymarket and 56 to Waterloo Place (close to Waverley).
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
True, but I can’t see the need for competition along that corridor. It wouldn’t be sustainable. I still have my doubts if Winchburgh could sustain a bus to town. It’s outside of the Ridacard area as well.
The train will take just over 15 minutes compared to the bus which in the peak can be over an hour. Unlike similar distances such as Prestonpans, there’s not exactly much in between that can pick up the missing passengers.
TheEastCoaster
Established Member
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- 26 Jun 2018
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- 1,651
Well then go for option B? The last one which covers Livingston Village, a split 72 could still cover Eliburn, it's more or less the risk of a long route risking delay.
Bit of a random one but you think Lothian would ever convert the 43 to a ‘city’ route. It doesn’t really fit the country profile now it has a flat fare the entire route and is in the Ridacard area now.
I was thinking if there’s ever a service change/increase that require the buses and drivers to be used in Lothian Country that could be the time for one of the city garages and buses to take over the route?
I was thinking if there’s ever a service change/increase that require the buses and drivers to be used in Lothian Country that could be the time for one of the city garages and buses to take over the route?
buslad1988
Member
- Joined
- 28 Dec 2018
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- 651
The bus lane trial has been confirmed to have been pushed back for yet another year… to the detriment of passengers.
www.midlothianview.com
Seventh year of bus lane delay - Midlothian View
Another delay to a bus lane trial that has been pushed back for six years will mean ‘public transport will suffer’, a city councillor has warned.
www.midlothianview.com
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
I’ve never understood the idea behind this 7-7-7 nonsense. Anyone who’s been on the road prior to 09:00 on a Sunday will tell you it’s absolutely a waste of time and it’s probably similar for a Saturday as well, maybe 08:00. I frequently do early shifts at weekends and often there’s maybe one or two cars along with the bus I’m on.The bus lane trial has been confirmed to have been pushed back for yet another year… to the detriment of passengers.
Seventh year of bus lane delay - Midlothian View
Another delay to a bus lane trial that has been pushed back for six years will mean ‘public transport will suffer’, a city councillor has warned.
You’ll get the same old excuse that keeping it the same means that it’s simple for people to understand. To the detriment of people who can actually understand how rules work. On that logic we should just have 24/7 bus lanes so that they’re always in force.
I’m all for things that speed buses up but this idea is not flawless. I would rather measures were taken to deal with bus lane/stop parking which is far more of a bigger problem which slows the buses down. Something that happens all the time.
The speed limit reductions on major roads will not have helped either. There are also still far too many bus stops.
Trainman40083
Established Member
Random question, sorry if it has been dealt with before. .When Lothian got all those electric double deckers, did any other deckers ever leave the fleet?
LothianBusesPh
Member
937-950 are currently going.
Siemens Trains
Member
- Joined
- 29 Nov 2018
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- 780
Even with the existing hours of operation I struggle to see much benefit in Edinburgh's bus lanes. Plus timings are consistent and easy to understand as-is.
Depending on traffic conditions, in a handful of locations the lanes might make a small difference to journey times but only by a minute or two. Rationalising stops and giving priority at traffic lights would probably have a bigger impact, but of course these need careful planning.
Was thinking today with the state 1065 is in just now could they maybe experiment with converting a tri axle to electric ? If it could be done. I’m no mechanical expert so don’t know if this would even be possible.
Well if there isn't much traffic on a Sunday morning it doesn't matter so much if one lane is being used for buses. The issue is not really 7-7-7 itself, which is just a catchy slogan ( how about 6 days-7am-6pm), but improving bus priority for a longer period of the day. E.g. the evening peak for bus lanes and waiting restrictions is just 1630-1800, it could be 1530-1800 and that would help. And enforcement of course.
However the officials are being obstructive, or so I have been told by councillors, so no progress.
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
On that logic though they should be 24/7 365 days a year. You have to draw the line somewhere. I think the line proposed is too far.
Just a reminder we do have a speculation thread for these purposes:
Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)
This forum is ideally for route speculation, ideas for route improvements, route ideas and how you would personally make the Lothian network better. Where would you take the bus and how frequent would you run it etc?
www.railforums.co.uk
buslad1988
Member
- Joined
- 28 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 651
I think 7-7-7 is fully justified and the best solution. It keeps it simple and leaves no room for errors.
It’s totally practical considering Edinburgh’s variety of festivals/events throughout the year across the city. It also covers Fridays when schools finish at lunchtime - it wouldn’t be sensible to have an array of differing days/times which will just confuse car/delivery drivers.
However, there is a bus gate with cameras just across from my work - and despite multiple signage you still see unauthorised vehicles coming and going all day long. No doubt complaining they didn’t realise when the fine lands on their doorstep!
The use of service 44 for the initial trial is a good one as it will also benefit a variety of other services between Brunstane/Meadowbank and the city.
The bus lanes need a fundamental rethink, that stretches long beyond discussions of their operating times being standardised.
Take the one on Queensferry Road, north of the Barton, that heads into town. These actually delay the buses at peak, as they get stuck behind the traffic trying to exit lane one at the opening of the bus lane. All traffic would flow better if it was gone, as the flow from the A90/Fife splits at the Barton, so just keep two lanes operating to there and it naturally dissipates.
Another example is the ones on the A1 / Milton Road West - these have the opposite problem, in my experience these are rarely used by cars out with of their opening hours - with the exception of for parking. These might as well have extended hours as it wouldn't have any impact on the flow of the traffic.
Therein lies I feel the problem at the heart of the 7-7-7 argument and the futility of politics like this. Unsurprisingly the Greens want to score a 'environmental' victory so they can parade that around. No one else is really that interested or enthusiastic either way - hence it's officially supposed to be happening but has ultimately dragged on.
What is absolutely clear is no one in power ever has the ideas or the energy to actually tackle Edinburgh's road related issues properly.
What we get instead is the half hearted tinkering around the edges instead like this. The deck chairs on the Titanic immediately spring to mind.
I don't know what the perfect answer is, other than to assess each one individually and assess whether it does harm (like the Queensferry Road one) or good (the ones through Duddingston.)
I can only comment on those as I have regular use of them at different times including the peaks. This sort of experience is needed on them all to judge them properly.
I hasten to add, this is absolutely not an Edinburgh only issue, I can't think of a major city in the UK that doesn't struggle with this. Doesn't mean it's unsurmountable though. Where there is a will there is a way...
Take the one on Queensferry Road, north of the Barton, that heads into town. These actually delay the buses at peak, as they get stuck behind the traffic trying to exit lane one at the opening of the bus lane. All traffic would flow better if it was gone, as the flow from the A90/Fife splits at the Barton, so just keep two lanes operating to there and it naturally dissipates.
Another example is the ones on the A1 / Milton Road West - these have the opposite problem, in my experience these are rarely used by cars out with of their opening hours - with the exception of for parking. These might as well have extended hours as it wouldn't have any impact on the flow of the traffic.
Therein lies I feel the problem at the heart of the 7-7-7 argument and the futility of politics like this. Unsurprisingly the Greens want to score a 'environmental' victory so they can parade that around. No one else is really that interested or enthusiastic either way - hence it's officially supposed to be happening but has ultimately dragged on.
What is absolutely clear is no one in power ever has the ideas or the energy to actually tackle Edinburgh's road related issues properly.
What we get instead is the half hearted tinkering around the edges instead like this. The deck chairs on the Titanic immediately spring to mind.
I don't know what the perfect answer is, other than to assess each one individually and assess whether it does harm (like the Queensferry Road one) or good (the ones through Duddingston.)
I can only comment on those as I have regular use of them at different times including the peaks. This sort of experience is needed on them all to judge them properly.
I hasten to add, this is absolutely not an Edinburgh only issue, I can't think of a major city in the UK that doesn't struggle with this. Doesn't mean it's unsurmountable though. Where there is a will there is a way...
Graeme Duncan
On Moderation
- Joined
- 3 Mar 2018
- Messages
- 221
e734 now out on Service 8 according to the Lothian Buses tracker.
Basic enforcement of bus lanes would be the best improvement, most are unusable at peak times with delivery vans/shoppers/food delivery. A few days ago in Newington a traffic warden moved on a Mercedes people carrier, so I thought fantastic I can use the bus lane - seconds later a Micra pulls in outside a fast food shop and the warden ignored it.
Too busy down the side streets trying to get revenue than helping traffic flow.
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
This I completely agree with. There’s no enforcement of bus lane parking at all. Lothian Road and Inverleith Row are too bad examples I know of. I’m no expert on how this is enforced but surely cameras could help with this?
90019
Established Member
And in the afternoons, the council trucks are out lifting cars on Bruntsfield Place from spaces where they aren't causing an obstruction and ignoring the ones further up on Leven Street and Home Street that are blocking the bus lanes.
Auld reekie
Member
- Joined
- 23 Jun 2018
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- 449
Loading only bays are totally abused.
ian1944
Member
Good news. Just poles on Wednesday, now fully flagged on both sides adjacent to the QMU turning circle. Not exactly a couple of weeks, but proportionately less delay than HS2.
computerSaysNo
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 1,668
I was under the impression that only the police could take action if a vehicle was causing an obstruction?
I’ve heard a rumour that Lothian have ordered some new diesel buses, new single decks and new airlinks potentially. Goes against the all electric fleet but with no government grant to help purchase electrics, could this be why they might need to rethink the timeline on going fully electric. Again it’s a rumour so might be nonsense
They paid for the existing electric BZLs themselves, so unlikely that is a reason for not getting electric buses.
VioletEclipse
Member
we currently don't know with any certainty what lothian will get after the BZLs which are ordered/in delivery (as far as I'm aware), so rumours aren't much to go off for now. I would be surprised if they bought many new diesels, however with most depots not having charging points and some routes in the network not being suitable for many types of electric buses currently available, I guess it isn't impossible they might get a few diesels.
stevenedin
Established Member
842 has been withdrawn again.