Mishandled Penalty Fare

[Beaver42]

Hi all,


I’d appreciate your advice on my situation:

• I purchased and validated an e-ticket before boarding my train. It was successfully scanned at the station gates.
• While the train was in transit, my phone malfunctioned, making the ticket temporarily inaccessible when checked by the inspector.
• The inspector acknowledged that I had a valid ticket purchased before travel and assured me that the penalty fare issued would not be enforced.
• Despite this, my initial appeal was rejected. The rejection letter stated I should have purchased a valid ticket before boarding, suggesting they misinterpreted my appeal as an issue occurring before travel rather than during transit.
• I am planning a re-appeal, clarifying that I had purchased and validated the ticket prior to boarding and that the issue only arose mid-journey due to my phone glitching.
• I am also preparing a formal complaint requesting cancellation and compensation for unnecessary stress, as I am a resident doctor and this has added avoidable pressure during an already demanding period.

Questions for the forum

1. Has anyone had success with similar re-appeals where a valid ticket became inaccessible mid-journey?
2. Can they legally enforce a penalty fare in this situation despite proof of pre-purchased ticket and the inspector’s verbal assurance?
3. Would escalating to the Rail Ombudsman be effective if my re-appeal is rejected again?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Haywain]

I am also preparing a formal complaint requesting cancellation and compensation for unnecessary stress, as I am a resident doctor and this has added avoidable pressure during an already demanding period.

None of this is the fault of the railway - why should you be compensated because your phone malfunctioned?

 

[Beaver42]

None of this is the fault of the railway - why should you be compensated because your phone malfunctioned?

Understandable, but they do not have the right to process an unfair penalty fare, despite providing evidence of a valid ticket, that was scanned to board the train. My phone malfunctioning is not my fault and beyond my control, the appeal should have indefinitely been successful.

 

[Haywain]

Understandable, but they do not have the right to process an unfair penalty fare, despite providing evidence of a valid ticket, that was scanned to board the train. My phone malfunctioning is not my fault and beyond my control, the appeal should have indefinitely been successful.

You were unable to show a ticket, which makes the issue of a Penalty Fare Notice an appropriate sanction. The notice is subject to appeal, but your phone malfunctioning is not, in itself, valid grounds for appeal. If you post a copy of the notice here, the experts maybe able to advise on grounds for appeal. In the meantime, you have been treated appropriately, no matter what you think, so indignation is not going to help you.

 

[Alex C.]

Understandable, but they do not have the right to process an unfair penalty fare, despite providing evidence of a valid ticket, that was scanned to board the train. My phone malfunctioning is not my fault and beyond my control, the appeal should have indefinitely been successful.

I think you need to reconsider your approach here - this might feel unfair but the offence will be failing to produce a valid ticket on request. Unfortunately it’s a strict liability offence and the ‘equipment malfunction’ is deemed to be your responsibility. You could have presented it on a print out, or a second device (again, I am not talking about fairness here). The offence is not about not purchasing a ticket, purely about displaying it when requested.

A penalty fare is the better outcome here, they could have chosen to prosecute you which would have been more difficult to deal with and they would have won if they had taken it to court.

Others will be able to advise on technical routes for appeal but I think you’ll need to accept that you have technically committed an offence here, and I can’t see any route to ‘compensation’ off the back of this.

It’s also worth saying that rail staff saying you can appeal and it’ll be fine is a well known conflict avoidance technique. It doesn’t change any of the underlying facts, even if you could prove it.

 

[jfollows]

You were not able to present a valid ticket when asked, see https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

As others have said, a Penalty Fare was appropriate in the circumstances.

9.2 Travelling Without a Valid Ticket


If you are unable to present a valid Ticket when asked and the conditions set out in Condition 6 do not apply, we are permitted in law to take one of the following measures:

9.2.1 To charge you the full undiscounted “anytime” single fare to a station directly served by the train that you are on. You will not be entitled to any discounts or special terms, or to a Ticket to a station other than one served by the train that you are on; or

9.2.2 To charge you a Penalty Fare on certain trains and stations (see Condition 10 below); or

9.2.3 To report you for prosecution.

 

[Beaver42]

Understandable, but they do not have the right to process an unfair penalty fare, despite providing evidence of a valid ticket, that was scanned to board the train. My phone malfunctioning is not my fault and beyond my control, the appeal should have indefinitely been successful.

I think you need to reconsider your approach here - this might feel unfair but the office will be failing to produce a valid ticket on request. Unfortunately it’s a strict liability offence and the ‘equipment malfunction’ is deemed to be your responsibility. You could have presented it on a print out, or a second device (again, I am not talking about fairness here). The offence is not about not purchasing a ticket, purely about displaying it when requested.

A penalty fare is the better outcome here, they could have chosen to prosecute you which would have been more difficult to deal with and they would have won if they had taken it to court.

Others will be able to advise on technical routes for appeal but I think you’ll need to accept that you have technically committed an offence here.

I would appreciate your advice on the following situation:


Fact 1. I had purchased a valid ticket before travel, and it was scanned at the gates to board the train. I did not evade paying for my journey.
Fact 2. During transit, my phone malfunctioned, making the e-ticket temporarily inaccessible when checked on board.
Fact 3. The ticket inspector acknowledged I had a valid ticket and promised that if I appealed with proof of purchase, the penalty fare would be cancelled.
Fact 4. I appealed, attaching my valid ticket receipts, but my appeal was rejected on the basis that I should have purchased a valid ticket before boarding – which I clearly had done.
Fact 5. Unforeseen technical circumstances like phone malfunctions should be accounted for fairly. It seems unreasonable to penalise a passenger who had already purchased and validated their ticket but could not present it mid-journey due to an unexpected technical issue.

I will be pursuing the appeal, but under no circumstance should I be prosecuted, as per guidelines.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2025 ==

You were not able to present a valid ticket when asked, see https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

As others have said, a Penalty Fare was appropriate in the circumstances.

You must hold a valid Ticket or authority to travel before you board a train where there was the opportunity to buy one unless one of the following circumstances applies:

1. I held a valid ticket before boarding the train, it was scanned and during transit, my phone manlfunctioned, and I was unable to present the ticket - i should be penalised for an inconvenience beyond my control.
2. Furthermore, there was no opportunity to buy another ticket during transit nor was this an option presented to me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With all due respect, if you speak to the TOC as assertively as you have here the likely outcome is escalation. We generally find better outcomes from being apologetic and accepting that, in law, being able to show your ticket is your responsibility.

 

[jfollows]

Good luck, but you asked for our opinions and advice and we’ve given them as requested.

EDIT It’s also unfortunately true that sometimes ticket inspectors make “promises” along the lines you report in order to reduce or avoid confrontation when they issue Penalty Fares or reports for prosecution. It’s something we‘ve seen reported here before.

 

[Beaver42]

With all due respect, if you speak to the TOC as assertively as you have here the likely outcome is escalation. We generally find better outcomes from being apologetic and accepting that, in law, being able to show your ticket is your responsibility.

I have sent appeal with the presented evidence of a valid ticket, that was bought before boarding the train. Surely the appeal should be accepted, as I had a valid purchased ticket before travelling? I am not disagreeing with the Penalty fare in itself, I will send an appeal (without asking for compensation).

 

[Alex C.]

I have sent appeal with the presented evidence of a valid ticket, that was bought before boarding the train. Surely the appeal should be accepted, as I had a valid purchased ticket before travelling? I am not disagreeing with the Penalty fare in itself, I will send an appeal (without asking for compensation).

To appeal, you’ll need to demonstrate that not only did you have a valid ticket, but you were also able to display it at the point it was requested. By your own admission, you were not and the appeal should not succeed on these grounds.

 

[Beaver42]

Good luck, but you asked for our opinions and advice and we’ve given them as requested.

EDIT It’s also unfortunately true that sometimes ticket inspectors make “promises” along the lines you report in order to reduce or avoid confrontation when they issue Penalty Fares or reports for prosecution. It’s something we‘ve seen reported here before.

I’m looking for advice regarding my penalty fare appeal, as my situation seems quite different from many others I’ve read about here.

In my case, I had purchased the correct ticket for my journey, and it was validated and scanned at the station gates before I boarded the train. I boarded the correct service with a valid ticket, so there was no issue of fare evasion.

The only problem was that during the journey, my phone malfunctioned, and I was unable to present the e-ticket to the inspector while on board. This was completely beyond my control, and I later provided proof of purchase during the appeals process.

My main question is: Given that I had purchased and validated my ticket correctly, but simply could not present it due to an unforeseen technical issue, should my appeal be upheld? Has anyone had a similar experience where a valid ticket could not be shown mid-journey due to phone issues, and what was the outcome?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2025 ==

To appeal, you’ll need to demonstrate that not only did you have a valid ticket, but you were also able to display it at the point it was requested. By your own admission, you were not and the appeal should not succeed on these grounds.

So essentially, this is another method for TOC to capitalise and make money? I have to pay for an inconvenience, despite being a paying customer.

 

[jfollows]

I’m looking for advice regarding my penalty fare appeal, as my situation seems quite different from many others I’ve read about here.

My main question is: Given that I had purchased and validated my ticket correctly, but simply could not present it due to an unforeseen technical issue, should my appeal be upheld? Has anyone had a similar experience where a valid ticket could not be shown mid-journey due to phone issues, and what was the outcome?.

No. You couldn’t present a valid ticket when asked. I don’t know how much clearer we can be, but we’ve seen this before and the appeals were not successful. Your situation is not unique.

 

[Beaver42]

Good luck, but you asked for our opinions and advice and we’ve given them as requested.

EDIT It’s also unfortunately true that sometimes ticket inspectors make “promises” along the lines you report in order to reduce or avoid confrontation when they issue Penalty Fares or reports for prosecution. It’s something we‘ve seen reported here before.

This was the response I received:

To ensure fairness and consistency in the decision-making process, appeals are considered in conjunction


with a code of practice. The statements submitted on behalf of the passenger and the train company will


both be taken into account by an experienced assessor to determine the appeal outcome. More information


about how appeals are decided is available on our homepage at www.penaltyservices.co.uk.


Many rail users consider penalty fares to be an accusation of fare avoidance but this is not the case at


all. A Penalty Fare is simply a higher fare which may be issued under The Penalty Fares Rules and


Regulations by a member of staff who is licensed to act on behalf of a train operating company which


issues penalty fares. Penalty fare warning posters are on display at every penalty fares station (as required


under Regulation 8) advising customers of the consequences for boarding a penalty fares train without a


valid ticket or other authority to travel in their possession.


The National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) advise that where the facility to buy a ticket exists prior to


boarding, passengers should pay the correct fare for their entire journey before they travel and produce for


inspection a valid ticket as evidence of their right to make a journey on the relevant train, otherwise they


may be liable to pay a Penalty Fare Notice.


I understand you have stated problems were encountered when attempting to buy or display digital tickets


either online or via a mobile app on the date of travel.


Some timed tickets are not available close to the time that a train is due to depart from a station. However,


Anytime or Off-Peak tickets where appropriate can be bought at any time as they are not time dependent.


In all cases, digital tickets purchased before travel must be confirmed as available for inspection before you


board the train.


Where problems are encountered when attempting to buy or show digital tickets either online or via


a mobile app before you travel, you must then use the purchase facilities at the station to buy a valid ticket


before boarding the train.

As the train company has provided proof that it was possible to purchase a valid ticket from the station


where you boarded the train before travel, I'm afraid it is the conclusion of Penalty Services that the Penalty


Fare Notice should stand'

This makes not logical sense, because the train had departed, and mid-transit I was unable to show my valid ticket, therefore there was no opportunity at all to buy a ticket.

 

[John R]

For all they know, you had given your phone/ticket to your mate in the next coach to show. It’s no different to boarding a train having bought a ticket and then losing it. You weren’t able to show a ticket when asked, and a PF was an appropriate action.

 

[Beaver42]

For all they know, you had given your phone/ticket to your mate in the next coach to show. It’s no different to boarding a train having bought a ticket and then losing it. You weren’t able to show a ticket when asked, and a PF was an appropriate action.

That ticket would have been scanned by the inspector and properly logged. It is incredibly disappointing that, as a paying customer who did nothing wrong, I am now being treated as if I’ve committed an offence. Instead, I am effectively being penalised for a situation that was simply an unfortunate misfortune beyond my control.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2025 ==

No. You couldn’t present a valid ticket when asked. I don’t know how much clearer we can be, but we’ve seen this before and the appeals were not successful. Your situation is not unique.

So the best approach would be to, wait for this appeal, and if unsuccessful, pay the fare.

'
Having taken into consideration all the points raised to date, we regret to advise that your appeal has been

unsuccessful. It is your right to re-appeal this decision. Any further appeal will be considered by a different

appeal assessor. If re-appealing, please give the reason(s) why you are appealing against this decision and

also mention any additional circumstances you would like taken into account. A further appeal should be

submitted by post to: Penalty Services, 12 Deben Mill Business Centre, Old Maltings Approach,

Woodbridge, IP12 1BL. or through our website at www.penaltyservices.co.uk/make-an-appeal/ within 14

days of the date this letter was received.

If you choose not to re-appeal and have not already paid your Penalty Fare Notice, you should pay any

outstanding debt. Failure to pay can mean that the time allowed to pay the reduced amount for the Penalty

Fare can run out making the amount of the Penalty Fare £100 plus the price of the full single fare

applicable and further delays in payment may result in administration fees being added by the train

company or its debt recovery agency.

Please also be aware that if you do not re-appeal this decision or pay the penalty fare within 14 days of the

date this letter was received, the train operating company will be entitled to commence court proceedings to

recover the penalty fare.

Where this reply came by post to your address, the date received is assumed to be the second working day

after the letter/post date as defined in paragraph 3 of schedule 2 of The Railways (Penalty Fares)

Regulations 2018 as amended from time to time. Where you have been informed by email reply, the date


received is the letter date'.

 

[jfollows]

The best approach is to pay the discounted Penalty Fare, yes, the clock stops during the appeal process.

Personally, I prefer using paper tickets rather than etickets (or I print my etickets) for reasons like this, although many other contributors to this forum don’t share my preference. I am personally sorry you fell foul of this problem, but it doesn’t change the advice you’ve been given.

 

[jupiter]

I accept it's a hard lesson to learn, and disappointing, and everything else, but you need to answer this question with a simple yes or no:

Could you produce a valid ticket when requested?

 

[Haywain]

I am now being treated as if I’ve committed an offence.

You have committed an offence. A failure to produce a ticket on request is a strict liability offence under the Railway Byelaws. However, you have been issued a Penalty Fare Notice which is effectively an acknowledgment that it was an honest mistake.

As previously stated, if you post a redacted copy of the whole notice it may be possible to see if there are grounds for appeal in the way it has been completed and issued. This has more chance of getting the outcome you desire than arguing about the fairness of what happened.

 

[Beaver42]

You have committed an offence. A failure to produce a ticket on request is a strict liability offence under the Railway Byelaws. However, you have been issued a Penalty Fare Notice which is effectively an acknowledgment that it was an honest mistake.

As previously stated, if you post a redacted copy of the whole notice it may be possible to see if there are grounds for appeal in the way it has been completed and issued. This has more chance of getting the outcome you desire than arguing about the fairness of what happened.

I agree, I will pay if my second appeal is unsuccessful. Britain is Broken.

 

[Haywain]

Britain is Broken.

So, would you be happy if when you are travelling other people were waving dead phones at the ticket inspector and not being challenged? Because there are guards who post on this forum and see “my phone's died” being presented as an excuse for having no ticket on a daily basis.

However, we try to help people who post here but you’ll only get help if you answer our questions. If you only want to rant, stick to Facebook.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Fact 3. The ticket inspector acknowledged I had a valid ticket and promised that if I appealed with proof of purchase, the penalty fare would be cancelled

This isn't true is it? The ticket inspector acknowledged that you said you had a valid ticket. There is no way they could know if you did or didn't, because you couldn't show the ticket

And as others have said, the "promise" is in reality a very common de-escalation strategy

My main question is: Given that I had purchased and validated my ticket correctly, but simply could not present it due to an unforeseen technical issue, should my appeal be upheld?

It probably won't be

 

[AlterEgo]

I agree, I will pay if my second appeal is unsuccessful. Britain is Broken.

You have a third appeal as well, which is looked at by a different and more independent appeal panel, which I’d encourage you to use. The bureaucracy surrounding tickets and penalty fares can be infuriating but once trapped in it you do have to engage with it for your own benefit I’m afraid.

Your appeal here will be on the “compelling reasons” grounds as by right, the penalty fare was properly issued for a correct and valid reason. If you upload the penalty fare with your details removed, as advised, we may discover there’s a more “slam dunk” and direct line of appeal rendering the penalty fare certainly void rather than appealing to the better nature of an assessor or panel.

 

[Beaver42]

So, would you be happy if when you are travelling other people were waving dead phones at the ticket inspector and not being challenged? Because there are guards who post on this forum and see “my phone's died” being presented as an excuse for having no ticket on a daily basis.

However, we try to help people who post here but you’ll only get help if you answer our questions. If you only want to rant, stick to Facebook.

No, as I can demonstrate and present a valid ticket as well as proof of purchase, retrospectively. My phone was fully charged, as I was actively charging it to access my ticket, it was stuck on the homescreen with the Trainline notification.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2025 ==

You have a third appeal as well, which is looked at by a different and more independent appeal panel, which I’d encourage you to use. The bureaucracy surrounding tickets and penalty fares can be infuriating but once trapped in it you do have to engage with it for your own benefit I’m afraid.

Your appeal here will be on the “compelling reasons” grounds as by right, the penalty fare was properly issued for a correct and valid reason. If you upload the penalty fare with your details removed, as advised, we may discover there’s a more “slam dunk” and direct line of appeal rendering the penalty fare certainly void rather than appealing to the better nature of an assessor or panel.

This is reassuring, thank you for your response.

 

[odetoboy]

I can completely understand your anger at this situation as something very similar happened to me back in March. unfortunately, these things go very ‘by the book’ especially when it benefits the TOC to do so, and i had to pay my penalty fare after about a week’s deliberation.

Definitely makes it sting more when they reject Delay Repay repeatedly!

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you can't display your ticket then you have committed an offence. It doesn't matter whether this is because your phone glitched and refused to display an e-ticket or because you lost a paper ticket. It is your responsibility to ensure you can show your ticket.

I can understand why you are frustrated by this, but those are the facts.

Penalty Fare appeals are conducted in three stages. Stages one and two are conducted by 'independent' appeals companies which are, truthfully, anything but independent. Of the two appeals companies, one makes most of its money selling revenue protection software to TOCs and the other was actually directly owned by a TOC until fairly recently (and still has the same management as when it was owned by that TOC).

It is only the third appeal stage that is truly independent. As @AlterEgo says, unless you show the Penalty Fare notice to us and we can identify any issue, any appeal will be on the grounds of 'compelling reasons'. Buying a ticket and having a technical issue may be accepted as a compelling reason, but there is no guarantee- it is at the discretion of the appeals panel. If you can provide evidence of the ticket then they are certainly more likely to consider your 'compelling reasons' than either of the first two appeal stages are, but it is not certain. You may also wish to explain any other mitigating circumstances, such as whether you were given sufficient time to try and rectify the issue, e.g. by giving you sufficient time to attempt a fix such as rebooting your phone, and whether you were subsequently able to fix the issue.

I would appeal though, right to the end, make them earn their £50.

 

[Haywain]

No, as I can demonstrate and present a valid ticket as well as proof of purchase, retrospectively.

Retrospectively isn't good enough to avoid committing the offence, I'm afraid.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Will the OP effectively end up paying twice for their travel to Leicester, i.e. the cost of the original ticket, the one that they weren't able to show, plus the £78.50 (Super Off Peak Single) fare detailed in the PF notice, as well as £50 (or £100) PF fee on top?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Will the OP effectively end up paying twice for their travel to Leicester, i.e. the cost of the original ticket, the one that they could not show, plus the £78.50 (Super Off Peak Single) fare detailed in the PF notice, as well as £50 (or £100) PF fee on top of that?

If all three appeals are rejected then yes.

Interesting they chose the Super Off Peak single fare rather than the Anytime. It could be worse.

OP, were you stopped on a train? If so, can you recall where (i.e. between which stations)?

 

[Beaver42]

If you can't display your ticket then you have committed an offence. It doesn't matter whether this is because your phone glitched and refused to display an e-ticket or because you lost a paper ticket. It is your responsibility to ensure you can show your ticket.

I can understand why you are frustrated by this, but those are the facts.

Penalty Fare appeals are conducted in three stages. Stages one and two are conducted by 'independent' appeals companies which are, truthfully, anything but independent. Of the two appeals companies, one makes most of its money selling revenue protection software to TOCs and the other was actually directly owned by a TOC until fairly recently (and still has the same management as when it was owned by that TOC).

It is only the third appeal stage that is truly independent. As @AlterEgo says, unless you show the Penalty Fare notice to us and we can identify any issue, any appeal will be on the grounds of 'compelling reasons'. Buying a ticket and having a technical issue may be accepted as a compelling reason, but there is no guarantee- it is at the discretion of the appeals panel. If you can provide evidence of the ticket then they are certainly more likely to consider your 'compelling reasons' than either of the first two appeal stages are, but it is not certain. You may also wish to explain any other mitigating circumstances, such as whether you were given sufficient time to try and rectify the issue, e.g. by giving you sufficient time to attempt a fix such as rebooting your phone, and whether you were subsequently able to fix the issue.

I would appeal though, right to the end, make them earn their £50.

Yes, I completely agree. I plan to appeal this to the very end because an independent third-party panel is likely to provide a fairer and more balanced perspective. Appealing should pause the 21-day payment clock, right?

It’s just so frustrating – phone glitches can happen to anyone. I did have a valid ticket, and in my case, the ticket inspector actually left the train a few stations before I reached my final destination, so there was no one else to show my ticket had I resolved the issue.