Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[QSK19]

Whilst I’m pretty sure that the question was ironic instead of literal, it is very symbolic of how painful this farce continues to be.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Switching on straw-clutching mode for a moment, the Modern Railways piece says the first 12 units have these serious defects.

So this begs the question, how far from completion is the first one that will not require re-work? (presumably 810013)
I'm presuming 013 was simply the first unit that had not advanced sufficiently far in production to have the fault built in when it seems to have become so serious that everything stopped (mid April, by the looks of posts in this thread?)

Has it been clarified whether the faults relate to the design or manufacture (or both)?

 

[Trainman40083]

Do my eyes deceive me, or is one of the new units in Litchurch Lane works? Maybe Alstom can fix them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2025 ==

Do my eyes deceive me, or is one of the new units in Litchurch Lane works? Maybe Alstom can fix them.

Then again, more likely a Voyager.

 

[800001]

Switching on straw-clutching mode for a moment, the Modern Railways piece says the first 12 units have these serious defects.

So this begs the question, how far from completion is the first one that will not require re-work? (presumably 810013)
I'm presuming 013 was simply the first unit that had not advanced sufficiently far in production to have the fault built in when it seems to have become so serious that everything stopped (mid April, by the looks of posts in this thread?)

Has it been clarified whether the faults relate to the design or manufacture (or both)?

810013 has been outside at Newton Aycliffe undergoing static testing.
This was first observed outside the factory on 20th March (seen on 8XX Appreciation Group on Facebook),

 

[DaveyJones]

Do my eyes deceive me, or is one of the new units in Litchurch Lane works? Maybe Alstom can fix them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2025 ==


Then again, more likely a Voyager.

There is an 810 on Etches Park today

 

[LowLevel]

There is an 810 on Etches Park today

810004 having an engine repair, should go on Monday.

 

[Denis103]

This is on BBC news website this morning https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq53z6gnqjyo

New trains connecting Derby, Nottingham, Leicester and Sheffield with London are facing more delays before they are introduced.

East Midlands Railway's fleet of Class 810 Aurora trains were originally meant to enter service in 2022 but have yet to be used by passengers.

 

[duffield]

This is on BBC news website this morning https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq53z6gnqjyo

Quote (of a quote!) from the above article:

In a statement, EMR told the BBC it was working to bring the new trains into service as soon as possible.

"Testing and validation of the units has commenced and will continue over the summer," it said.

"Following this, we will be able to accept units and begin to train our drivers and train crews".

A spokesman added: "We remain committed to starting the introduction of the Class 810 trains on our Intercity route as soon as possible, with a phased roll-out during 2026.

"In parallel, we are working closely with industry partners to ensure service continuity and minimise the impact on passengers whilst we transition to our new trains".

An optimist would read the last sentence as "We know we're going to have a shortage of trains as the 222s start to go before the 810s are ready, but at least we're facing up to this and looking for a solution rather than burying our heads in the sand and hoping for the best."

 

[Starmill]

What @Clarence Yard says is correct (with a caveat). Ministers have absolutely no power in Open Access applications currently. Ministers could change their guidance to ORR, but the key word there is ‘guidance’. In itself that might have some significnat implications, but that is for the future.

The caveat is that it is not beyond possibility that in future the principles of guidance might become instructions. That will require primary legislation.

The problem, as ever, with Alexander's (and her department's) deeply dishonourable and self-serving letters is that the people reading them will be well aware that Parliament can unmake the existence of their job in a heartbeat if it so desired. Now of course you'd hope they're made of stronger stuff than to blanch at one or two dodgy letters but that doesn't justify putting professional people in these circumstances. We have been there before with Mr Winsor after all.

I'm literally a member of the current party of government and affiliated organisations, and even I'm getting the ick from her and her rail Minister. Perhaps it's the latest sign I ought to be cancelling the direct debit, though that's off topic for here.

 

[QSK19]

I'm literally a member of the current party of government and affiliated organisations, and even I'm getting the ick from her and her rail Minister. Perhaps it's the latest sign I ought to be cancelling the direct debit, though that's off topic for here.

Exactly my sentiment during the previous government - I very nearly tore up my party membership because of Grayling. So, I fully get your predicament!

 

[meld3]

The problem, as ever, with Alexander's (and her department's) deeply dishonourable and self-serving letters is that the people reading them will be well aware that Parliament can unmake the existence of their job in a heartbeat if it so desired. Now of course you'd hope they're made of stronger stuff than to blanch at one or two dodgy letters but that doesn't justify putting professional people in these circumstances. We have been there before with Mr Winsor after all.

I'm literally a member of the current party of government and affiliated organisations, and even I'm getting the ick from her and her rail Minister. Perhaps it's the latest sign I ought to be cancelling the direct debit, though that's off topic for here.

I can only hear Jeremy Clarkson when reading that....

 

[Tomnick]

Sure, but usually the training package has to be agreed by the union, unless legislation has changed in the last few years?

In other words, if the pay deal gets voted no (which I've heard is likely), no one gets trained without the union agreeing - unless something has changed?

You can't really withhold agreement solely on the contents of the training package because a pay deal hasn't been agreed. What a pay deal could bring, hypothetically of course, is increased rostering flexibility during a training programme, without which it might be practically impossible to deliver the training programme without impacting the train service. One might observe that the possibility of a heavily reduced timetable being on the horizon could dispense with the need for that increased flexibility anyway.

 

[al2000]

810004 at Derby station at the moment, first time I've seen one here for a while.

 

[800001]

810004 at Derby station at the moment, first time I've seen one here for a while.

Been to Etches Park for engine repairs according to a post last week.

 

[38Cto15E]

I was on a 5 car Meridian from Platform 7 (bay) at Sheffield yesterday, will the Class 810's Auroras fit into this platform?
Just as a matter of interest there were two consequetive London-Sheffiled's without hot food provision, on my train it was a water problem I heard.

 

[dosxuk]

According to the online sectional appendix copies, there is 135m available for (the now normal) Eastern side on Platform 7, so an 810 should fit. An 810 is only about 4m longer than a 5 car 222, so pretty much all the places the 222's fit should also take 810's.

 

[InTheEastMids]

I was on a 5 car Meridian from Platform 7 (bay) at Sheffield yesterday, will the Class 810's Auroras fit into this platform?

810s have shorter carriages than other 80x to allow a 10-car train to fit into 240m platforms at St Pancras international. Don't know about this platform but presumably OK if the usable length is 120m or more.

810004 at Derby station at the moment

Been to Etches Park for engine repairs

Looks like it may have gone back and forth between Derby and Sheffield a couple of times before heading off to Melton.
Interestingly RTT shows it as "timed for 56 mph". Is that a speed restriction resulting from the recent issues?

 

[zwk500]

Interestingly RTT shows it as "timed for 56 mph". Is that a speed restriction resulting from the recent issues?

Almost certainly a background data thing rather than an actual restriction.

 

[cactustwirly]

I was on a 5 car Meridian from Platform 7 (bay) at Sheffield yesterday, will the Class 810's Auroras fit into this platform?
Just as a matter of interest there were two consequetive London-Sheffiled's without hot food provision, on my train it was a water problem I heard.

They don't normally? Just a trolley service unless something has changed recently

 

[800001]

Looks like it may have gone back and forth between Derby and Sheffield a couple of times before heading off to Melton.
Interestingly RTT shows it as "timed for 56 mph". Is that a speed restriction resulting from the recent issues?

Maybe testing things were fine before sending it back to Dalby

 

[swt_passenger]

Looks like it may have gone back and forth between Derby and Sheffield a couple of times before heading off to Melton.
Interestingly RTT shows it as "timed for 56 mph". Is that a speed restriction resulting from the recent issues?

It’s an issue to do with the underlying data being held in metres per second for certain services (VSTP?) and converting into mph for display, it’s been discussed a few times in the RTT discussion thread, I’ll try and find a link. 56 mph x [conversion factor of 2.23 ish] = 125 mph.

RealTimeTrains website

On occasion, allocations can be put in before midnight, particularly common with XC TfW are usually very early but the early allocations are frequently wrong, coupling trains that can't, sending non-158s down the Cambrian, etc, they're usually corrected overnight as the rest of the allocations...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[43055]

According to the online sectional appendix copies, there is 135m available for (the now normal) Eastern side on Platform 7, so an 810 should fit. An 810 is only about 4m longer than a 5 car 222, so pretty much all the places the 222's fit should also take 810's.

I was on a 5 car Meridian from Platform 7 (bay) at Sheffield yesterday, will the Class 810's Auroras fit into this platform?
Just as a matter of interest there were two consequetive London-Sheffiled's without hot food provision, on my train it was a water problem I heard.

The first of the two trip to Sheffield yesterday went into platform 7

Realtime Trains | 5Q01 0913 Etches Park Sdgs to Sheffield | 30/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q01 0913 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Sheffield on 30/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

They don't normally? Just a trolley service unless something has changed recently

First Class does bacon or sausage cobs for breakfast.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Something pathed as a 125mph DMU is/was supposed to be going Old Dalby -> Chesterfield -> Derby -> Nottingham -> Toton -> Nottingham -> Old Dalby today.

Although it was supposed to start around 0930 and has not yet appeared, so perhaps will not run.
Tomorrow, there is a trip to Crewe and back.

Hopefully the fact that these trips are even being set up in the systems means that some testing or training are restarting in parallel to the fault rectification activity.

 

[Spartacus]

Something pathed as a 125mph DMU is/was supposed to be going Old Dalby -> Chesterfield -> Derby -> Nottingham -> Toton -> Nottingham -> Old Dalby today.

Although it was supposed to start around 0930 and has not yet appeared, so perhaps will not run.
Tomorrow, there is a trip to Crewe and back.

Hopefully the fact that these trips are even being set up in the systems means that some testing or training are restarting in parallel to the fault rectification activity.

Groundframe issues at Melton, should still come out at some point...

 

[800001]

Something pathed as a 125mph DMU is/was supposed to be going Old Dalby -> Chesterfield -> Derby -> Nottingham -> Toton -> Nottingham -> Old Dalby today.

Although it was supposed to start around 0930 and has not yet appeared, so perhaps will not run.
Tomorrow, there is a trip to Crewe and back.

Hopefully the fact that these trips are even being set up in the systems means that some testing or training are restarting in parallel to the fault rectification activity.

Can only be 810004, as 003 back at Aycliffe and I think 001 is also due to be hauled back to Aycliffe.

 

[The_Train]

Can only be 810004, as 003 back at Aycliffe and I think 001 is also due to be hauled back to Aycliffe.

Any idea when 003 went back please?

 

[alm37]

Any idea when 003 went back please?

Hauled back by 66732 on 16 June.

 

[The_Train]

Hauled back by 66732 on 16 June.

Thank you

 

[Sonyman66]

I can confirm that 810004 worked the Old Dalby to Crewe today

 

[CM Punk]

810004 did some runs from Nottingham-Lincoln today