End of the Royal Train: alternative uses and what might have been

[popeter45]

Widespread public opinion would probably not stand for the construction of a new Royal Train

A shared royal/gov class 802 would have been nice

 

[Brubulus]

the current carriages are approaching being some of the oldest still on the mainline network so makes sense to retire the life expired stock
and in that time the speed of services has improved to the extent there really isnt a need for it anymore as overnight trips are no longer needed even to reach balmoral

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2025 ==


a shared royal/gov class 802 would have been nice

A 221 would be cheaper as a royal and governmental train, massively reducing costs while retaining the idea of a royal train. Sadly this seems as if the use of a specific train for the royal family is viewed as too much effort/operational inconvenience.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

the current carriages are approaching being some of the oldest still on the mainline network so makes sense to retire the life expired stock
and in that time the speed of services has improved to the extent there really isnt a need for it anymore as overnight trips are no longer needed even to reach balmoral

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2025 ==


a shared royal/gov class 802 would have been nice

Shared 802 would be good - if only so those in power realise how awful the seats are for us normals and change them!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2025 ==

A 221 would be cheaper as a royal and governmental train, massively reducing costs while retaining the idea of a royal train. Sadly this seems as if the use of a specific train for the royal family is viewed as too much effort/operational inconvenience.

What would Royal noses make of the toilets?

 

[renegademaster]

Under the current treasury the best you can hope for is a Government pacer

 

[Mikey C]

The reality is that the Royal Train was rarely used, and was 50 year old Mk 3s. A replacement would presumably have been made up of modified Mk5 carriages, to give sleeper and dining accommodation.

The royals can still use regular trains, it's the sleeping and dining car facilities which were unique to the royal train. Didn't the late Queen take scheduled trains to Sandringham?

 

[styles]

Replace it with a Gate stock unit and paint it with Union flag livery.

 

[Roast Veg]

It wouldn't cost very much to get "Caroline" onto Royal day duties.

 

[JKF]

Aren’t there a couple of coaches from the HST prototype set in the royal rake? Perhaps the 125 group would be keen on getting those, although probably heavily modified.

 

[Ashley Hill]

There are several wayside sidings and branches around the country that are designated royal train stabling points, the loss of the royal train could mean the loss of such locations.

 

[deltic]

Always thought it was a shame the ROSCOs did not present the Queen with a new royal train for her diamond jubilee. It would have been a great opportunity to promote an electric/battery emu design that could go anywhere with the interior demonstrating the best of British design and craftsmanship.

 

[mike57]

I can understand that the existing rolling stock is reaching an age where maintaining it would be a problem. A "GBR" train probably based on a 8xx bi-mode would make sense, with the Royal family using it, but also make it available like any other charter unit to anyone who has deep enough pockets in order to help with operating costs. It could be used to promote rail travel when not in use for its intended purposes.

Somehow the not replacing it option just seems like a lack of vision, and typical of governments recently who wring their hand about issues but actually do nothing to address them.

Train should be an optimum choice for travel within the UK, it tends to be centre to centre and can form a secure closed environment which must be easier to secure.

It would be nice to think that one of the larger hertiage operations would be given the opportunity to preserve it, maybe with some government help, but its probably too big a task for one to undertake, so I assume it may get split up.

 

[43096]

Aren’t there a couple of coaches from the HST prototype set in the royal rake? Perhaps the 125 group would be keen on getting those, although probably heavily modified.

Why would they be interested? Two vehicles that are completely non-standard and incompatible with their HST set, not to mention utterly useless for any useful purpose.

 

[zwk500]

There are several wayside sidings and branches around the country that are designated royal train stabling points, the loss of the royal train could mean the loss of such locations.

If their only use was to be kept around for stabling a train used a single-digit number of times a year, I'd suggest their loss would be a benefit to the actual job of the railway. AIUI there weren't really dedicated sites, but rather sites that were being kept were assessed for suitability so the withdrawal of the trains is unlikely to see many (any?) sidings be lost. Not least because of the costs of removing things from the interlocking.

Always thought it was a shame the ROSCOs did not present the Queen with a new royal train for her diamond jubilee. It would have been a great opportunity to promote an electric/battery emu design that could go anywhere with the interior demonstrating the best of British design and craftsmanship.

I cannot imagine a world in which ROSCOs splurged out tens of millions on a new train purely for vibes. Who would they have been promoting EMU/BEMU/BMMU to that didn't already know anything about it? And what would have been the outcome of a 'best of British' interior for companies formed mainly of banks?

I can understand that the existing rolling stock is reaching an age where maintaining it would be a problem. A "GBR" train probably based on a 8xx bi-mode would make sense, with the Royal family using it, but also make it available like any other charter unit to anyone who has deep enough pockets in order to help with operating costs. It could be used to promote rail travel when not in use for its intended purposes.

Hasn't this been proposed several times for the current Royal train and shot down every time for fear of dragging the Queen into commercial rivalries?

I can see the Royals just switching to a situation where they just spot-hire a conventional charter train from DB or LSL if they need to travel by private train. The security arrangements would presumably not need to be especially different from those for service trains which the Monarch has got before.

 

[dangie]

There are several wayside sidings and branches around the country that are designated royal train stabling points, the loss of the royal train could mean the loss of such locations.

I may be wrong on this (probably am) but I vaguely remember many years ago the Royal Train spent the night in the coal siding at Rugeley Power Station. This may just be my old memory running riot.

 

[TheWierdOne]

I can see the Royals just switching to a situation where they just spot-hire a conventional charter train from DB or LSL if they need to travel by private train. The security arrangements would presumably not need to be especially different from those for service trains which the Monarch has got before.

The difficulty with spot hire would be the necessity of running security checks on all the onboard staff from the charter firm, or training staff members of the royal household on staffing a train.

 

[mike57]

Hasn't this been proposed several times for the current Royal train and shot down every time for fear of dragging the Queen into commercial rivalries?

To be honest it feels like an excuse to do nothing. An increasing proportion of the Inter City fleet is 8xx variants, so common sense would say go that route, because maintenance would be straightforwards. You could go out to tender, but that would then result in a one off that would present a maintenance nightmare for its whole life.

The Royal family dont get involved, its a government purchase, and to be honest if other manufacurers start to compain they are told its a one off, a decision made by the UK goverment, based on a common sense approach for compatibility of parts and maintenance, end of. With a vieled threat that continued whinging will count badly in any future tender reviews.

 

[renegademaster]

Surely it would end up being something sprinter esque rather than 80x with limited clearance?

 

[yorksrob]

It's certainly an unfortunate turn of events to not have a Royal train, both in terms of the rail industry and national prestige.

A few carriages the King can travel around on, on official duties seems like the sort of thing a relatively well off (for the timebeing) country should be able to aspire to.

I'm sure that in the 90's other Government agencies were given the ability to hire out the royal train for visiting dignitories - although I understand it wasn't used much for that. Perhaps track access charges and the rest of it did for it in the end.

 

[43096]

A shared royal/gov class 802 would have been nice

It wouldn’t. Nasty, horrible contraptions.

 

[deltic]

I cannot imagine a world in which ROSCOs splurged out tens of millions on a new train purely for vibes. Who would they have been promoting EMU/BEMU/BMMU to that didn't already know anything about it? And what would have been the outcome of a 'best of British' interior for companies formed mainly of banks?

Politicians and the media - given the desire at one time to replace the Royal Yacht it would have gone down well with the party then in power and its supporters in the media and reduced the attention on the ROSCOs profits etc.

 

[Western Lord]

Royal transportation has been going downhill for years. First The Queen's Flight was disbanded, then The Royal Yacht, now The Royal Train. No doubt the Royal State Limousines will be replace with Chinese BEVs.

 

[MarkyT]

In Japan, JR East has a luxury 5 car emu available for charter, the E655 series, or Nagomi. It's narrow gauge, equipped for AC/DC power and can be loco-hauled off wire. An additional car is coupled into the formation for imperial use. The special car is compatible with other emu classes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It is now many years since I visited the National Railway Museum in York, where a selection of royal carriages over the ages was on view. Surely this is the place to display the Royal Train now.

 

[yorksrob]

It is now many years since I visited the National Railway Museum in York, where a selection of royal carriages over the ages was on view. Surely this is the place to display the Royal Train now.

Royal carriages are already fairly well represented there TBH.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2025 ==

Royal transportation has been going downhill for years. First The Queen's Flight was disbanded, then The Royal Yacht, now The Royal Train. No doubt the Royal State Limousines will be replace with Chinese BEVs.

Perhaps we're heading for a "bicycling monarchy" as seen on the Continent.

It does seem a step too far to me.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Royal carriages are already fairly well represented there TBH.

The final Royal Train is worthy of display in its entirety as a tribute to history.

 

[Western Lord]

The final Royal Train is worthy of display in its entirety as a tribute to history.

Perhaps it could be parked alongside the Royal Yacht Britannia at Leith!

 

[zwk500]

The difficulty with spot hire would be the necessity of running security checks on all the onboard staff from the charter firm, or training staff members of the royal household on staffing a train.

Why is that different to the King travelling on a Great Northern service from King's Cross to King's Lynn?

A few carriages the King can travel around on, on official duties seems like the sort of thing a relatively well off (for the timebeing) country should be able to aspire to.

DB presumably still have their company train, so maybe they can place that at the Sovereign's disposal when needed?

 

[465fan]

What about a lash-up of four 153s? A dining / kitchen one, a saloon / parlour one, a sleeper one and a scullery one...

 

[E100]

I think spot hire from LSL (Chairman's Train) or similar is probably the most appropriate going forward, a shame as it is. Whilst the mk2/mk3 currently used are undoubtably 'British' the 'Britishness' of a 8xx unit or mk5's could be called into question at any rate. If there were a spare mk5 set then that would probably be the next most appropriate nice as a brand new 8xx would be.

 

[Harpo]

There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors here as the total cost of maintaining the Royal Train isn’t mentioned anywhere nor is the source of the funds for that. All that is quoted in a BBC article is a sample two day journey:

The announcement came alongside the annual publication of royal finances, which showed that a journey on the royal train, from Gloucestershire to Staffordshire and then London, over two days in February, had cost more than £44,000.

If that were a two day railtour for 400 passengers it would only need £50 per person per day to break even. Bargain!

Royal train to be cut in Palace cost-saving measure

The announcement has come alongside the annual publication of royal finances.

www.bbc.co.uk