Elizabeth line Heathrow fares recap

[lehovec]

Could I please get some advice.

I have returned back to the railway after a few years away and had a bit of a "discussion" with a colleague about what is the correct ticket for a customer travelling to Heathrow.

We are based outside 1-9 zone and the colleague wanted me to sell U1-6 ticket for travel on Elizabeth Line to Heathrow (they were still setting up so not ready to sell the ticket) which I refused. As far as I remember this was never a valid fare, have things changed? I was under the impression that EL is TC or Heathrow Rail only.
Isn't U1-6 only valid via Underground?

Thank you.

 

[Benjwri]

This is the confusion created by TfL trying to have their cake and eat it. For fares purposes they’ve decided the core of the Elizabeth Line is counted as the Underground (Paddington to Abbey Wood), so zonal fares are valid for that. However you are correct they are not valid past Paddington. A Z1-6 Underground ticket is only valid on the Piccadilly to Paddington.

Travelcards obviously would be valid.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Through fares to Heathrow via the Elizabeth Line are only available from GWR stations.

For other TOCs, you either need to sell a Travelcard, a combination of tickets or a ticket to London and advise the customer to use Contactless/Oyster to Heathrow.

 

[lehovec]

Great, thank you for your replies, so as I though nothing has changed.

I remember that years ago NR issued a staff brief for EL but I cannot find it anywhere. Does anybody have a link to either EL staff brief or have any idea where this is written down?

 

[Starmill]

Through fares to Heathrow via the Elizabeth Line are only available from GWR stations.

For other TOCs, you either need to sell a Travelcard, a combination of tickets or a ticket to London and advise the customer to use Contactless/Oyster to Heathrow.

Indeed. Even the they're frequently only available in their Not via London form, rather than the choice between that and the +Not Heathrow Express.

 

[Benjwri]

Through fares to Heathrow via the Elizabeth Line are only available from GWR stations.

For other TOCs, you either need to sell a Travelcard, a combination of tickets or a ticket to London and advise the customer to use Contactless/Oyster to Heathrow.

Are they not also available on many cross London flows? A ticket to Heathrow Rail routed Any Permitted with a Maltese Cross is valid on the Elizabeth Line to Heathrow no? (although the usefulness is debatable), but may be cheaper for a period return.

 

[lehovec]

Are they not also available on many cross London flows? A ticket to Heathrow Rail routed Any Permitted with a Maltese Cross is valid on the Elizabeth Line to Heathrow no? (although the usefulness is debatable), but may be cheaper for a period return.

They are indeed valid, from my station journey planner offers either HEX or EL on Cross London Heathrow Rail ticket.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Are they not also available on many cross London flows? A ticket to Heathrow Rail routed Any Permitted with a Maltese Cross is valid on the Elizabeth Line to Heathrow no? (although the usefulness is debatable), but may be cheaper for a period return.

They're available, but priced on the basis of using Heathrow Express from Paddington rather than the Elizabeth Line, hence the advice to split.

Standard Class add-ons for non-GWR flows are £28 Single and £45 Return on top of the fare to London Terminals. That includes the cross-London transfer.

 

[Horizon22]

I remember that years ago NR issued a staff brief for EL but I cannot find it anywhere. Does anybody have a link to either EL staff brief or have any idea where this is written down?

This sounds like something you should ask your line manager about? Consistency amongst colleagues is of course important.

 

[redreni]

Taking the North Kent line as an example, Gravesend to Heathrow Rail is £23 for an off-peak day Travelcard route not HS1 (valid on EL but not HX) vs £44.40 for an Anytime single route not HS1 (valid on both EL and HX).

You need to go to Slade Green (zone 6) to find single fares routed 'not HX'. The off-peak day single (route not HX) undercuts the inboundary zone 1-6 Travelcard by a staggering 10p at £16.50.

So this would be a good example of a case where, if a customer states they want to use the Elizabeth Line, some quick maths is needed to work out if it's better to sell the outboundary Travelcard, split at the first station that has a 'not HX' single fare set, or split with Contactless at a convenient interchange station (in this case Abbey Wood):

Outboundary Day Travelcard £23
Split paper tickets at SGR £7 + £16.50 = £23.50
Split paper ticket to Abbey Wood then Contactless £9 + £15.10 = £24.10

Another illustration of why people who believe it's generally better to tap in as that'll be the cheapest way to do it are very often wrong.

 

[crablab]

This is the confusion created by TfL trying to have their cake and eat it. For fares purposes they’ve decided the core of the Elizabeth Line is counted as the Underground (Paddington to Abbey Wood), so zonal fares are valid for that. However you are correct they are not valid past Paddington. A Z1-6 Underground ticket is only valid on the Piccadilly to Paddington.

It's probably worth noting there is nothing contractural (that I've seen, anyway) which supports TfL's position here. It's unfortunately one of those things that they've unilaterally decided and sort of 'half implemented'.
Whilst they can set the terms of the TfL-specific tickets they retail (eg. Z1-6), they are explicitly forbidden from overriding terms in the NRCoT which apply throughout the Elizabeth Line (including the core) when using National Rail products.

Please note that neither a Train Company’s staff, nor a Licensed Retailer’s staff has the authority to waive or change the Conditions unless they are specifically allowed to do so within the Conditions.

It is a distinctly unsatisfactory state of affairs.