ScotRail alcohol ban quietly relaxed

[styles]

I was at Tweedbank station today and there was an announcement saying alcohol is allowed on stations and trains between 10am and 9pm, other restrictions may apply.

Apparently this was decided on the 8th May and took effect from 2nd June: https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-takes-first-steps-to-tackle-anti-social-behaviour/

Following the recent announcement the ScotRail alcohol ban is to be lifted, a Transport Scotland led Working Group agreed that this should come into effect by 2 June 2025.

From this date, alcohol may be consumed on ScotRail trains between 10am and 9pm. Other restrictions may apply, as determined by ScotRail and BTP, in certain circumstances such as large sporting events or concerts.

I must have completely missed this somehow. I understand they wouldn't shout it from the rooftops of course.

Seems like a sensible compromise, though must admit that if I were to set times I would think 10am a little early given the shut off time is 9pm.

 

[Segedunum]

I would imagine that its more likely to be enforced (if at all) on trains departing after 9pm more than anything - I can't see someone running down the train confiscating alcohol when the clock strikes 9.

As others have said, it seemed very draconian on long distance routes where a couple of beers or some wine shared with a picnic would be quite a pleasant prospect. On the Strathclyde Electrics it made more sense.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Makes mental note;
: When travelling back from Fort Bill in the evening, reserve a seat on the Caledonion Sleeper....

 

[duffield]

I would imagine that its more likely to be enforced (if at all) on trains departing after 9pm more than anything - I can't see someone running down the train confiscating alcohol when the clock strikes 9.

As others have said, it seemed very draconian on long distance routes where a couple of beers or some wine shared with a picnic would be quite a pleasant prospect. On the Strathclyde Electrics it made more sense.

What seems crazy to me is that (if I remember correctly) the Robin Hood line (Nottingham-Mansfield-Worksop) not only bans consumption (sort of understandable on this line) but also bans carrying unopened alcohol after 5pm on Fridays. So you've finished work, gone to Marks & Spencer in Nottingham and got your evening meal and a bottle of wine, and in theory you're not allowed on your train back to Mansfield? I don't expect it's rigorously enforced but it seems a bit ridiculous.

Did the Scottish ban include bans on carrying unopened alcohol or was it just consumption?

 

[styles]

Makes mental note;
: When travelling back from Fort Bill in the evening, reserve a seat on the Caledonion Sleeper....

Yes, or LNER/XC if Aberdeen way.

Also once you leave the train at Waverley you're grand because that's a Network Rail managed station, not ScotRail, so having a BrewDog pub is totally fine, but if you're at Haymarket, oof no.

 

[185143]

Yes, or LNER/XC if Aberdeen way.

Also once you leave the train at Waverley you're grand because that's a Network Rail managed station, not ScotRail, so having a BrewDog pub is totally fine, but if you're at Haymarket, oof no.

Must have imagined having a pint at Wemyss Bay station a few months back then!

 

[styles]

What seems crazy to me is that (if I remember correctly) the Robin Hood line (Nottingham-Mansfield-Worksop) not only bans consumption (sort of understandable on this line) but also bans carrying unopened alcohol after 5pm on Fridays. So you've finished work, gone to Marks & Spencer in Nottingham and got your evening meal and a bottle of wine, and in theory you're not allowed on your train back to Mansfield? I don't expect it's rigorously enforced but it seems a bit ridiculous.

Did the Scottish ban include bans on carrying unopened alcohol or was it just consumption?

The ScotRail ban was against visible containers and consumption as far as I remember.

It was loosely enforced once COVID restrictions had lifted.

Banning closed containers is pretty ridiculous. Perhaps on a case by case basis like football trains but not as a general rule.

 

[Sealink]

I was at Tweedbank station today and there was an announcement saying alcohol is allowed on stations and trains between 10am and 9pm, other restrictions may apply.

Apparently this was decided on the 8th May and took effect from 2nd June: https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/working-group-takes-first-steps-to-tackle-anti-social-behaviour/



I must have completely missed this somehow. I understand they wouldn't shout it from the rooftops of course.

Seems like a sensible compromise, though must admit that if I were to set times I would think 10am a little early given the shut off time is 9pm.

I do recall this years ago, having purchased wine from the trolley on the last (and mostly empty) Far North Line train of the day, and then being told I had to finish it by 9pm or it would be confiscated. Infuriating.

 

[duffield]

I do recall this years ago, having purchased wine from the trolley on the last (and mostly empty) Far North Line train of the day, and then being told I had to finish it by 9pm or it would be confiscated. Infuriating.

"Let's reduce alcohol related issues by means of enforced bingeing!"

 

[Mikey C]

I was quite surprised taking a recent train journey in Ireland, that alcohol consumption is totally banned (other than the Enterprise service).

Interesting that both Ireland and Scotland have been much stricter than "England".

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was quite surprised taking a recent train journey in Ireland, that alcohol consumption is totally banned (other than the Enterprise service).

Interesting that both Ireland and Scotland have been much stricter than "England".

While England's isn't perfect I'd say both Scotland and Ireland have a worse relationship with alcohol in society generally than England, so there's some sense in those different attitudes and laws.

 

[farci]

England has the highest proportion of adults who drink on four or more days each week and was the only nation which saw a significant decrease between 2018 and 2022. Northern Ireland has the highest proportion of drinkers who binge drink daily or almost daily.https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/resear...ults who drink on,drink daily or almost daily.

 

[The exile]

The ScotRail ban was against visible containers and consumption as far as I remember.

It was loosely enforced once COVID restrictions had lifted.

Banning closed containers is pretty ridiculous. Perhaps on a case by case basis like football trains but not as a general rule.

I suppose it would permit confiscation of the as yet unopened cans (by an authorised person) where someone is already flouting the ban by drinking.

 

[duffield]

I suppose it would permit confiscation of the as yet unopened cans (by an authorised person) where someone is already flouting the ban by drinking.

If that was the purpose it should be clearly stated, as in "Any person consuming alcohol or in possession of an open container may *also* have any closed containers of alcohol in their possession confiscated". Quite simple, and avoids putting people just taking their shopping home in the wrong.

 

[Cloud Strife]

It was loosely enforced once COVID restrictions had lifted.

A friend working for ScotRail reckons it caused more problems than it solved, because people would just get tanked up before travelling. He personally didn't bother enforcing it unless there was a strong reason to do it, but as he said: I'm not going to argue with a group of people having a drink and a good time while they travel.

 

[styles]

A friend working for ScotRail reckons it caused more problems than it solved, because people would just get tanked up before travelling. He personally didn't bother enforcing it unless there was a strong reason to do it, but as he said: I'm not going to argue with a group of people having a drink and a good time while they travel.

I only ever saw it enforced once and it was during a stricter lockdown, and 3 lads were sat at a table with 2x4 packs of Tennent's on the go.

Seen plenty of others drinking without penalty.

I reckon most guards used their common sense. Haven't seen anyone pulled up on it for a couple of years now.

 

[nw1]

England has the highest proportion of adults who drink on four or more days each week and was the only nation which saw a significant decrease between 2018 and 2022. Northern Ireland has the highest proportion of drinkers who binge drink daily or almost daily.https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/research/research-and-evaluation-reports/patterns-in-drinking-across-the-four-uk-nations#:~:text=England has the highest proportion of adults who drink on,drink daily or almost daily.

I don't think drinking well under a pint of beer (e.g. a 330ml bottle) more than four days a week is anything to worry about though, is it? You're certainly well under the units limit, even the more restrictive recent ones.

 

[styles]

I don't think drinking well under a pint of beer (e.g. a 330ml bottle) more than four days a week is anything to worry about though, is it? You're certainly well under the units limit, even the more restrictive recent ones.

Maybe but according to the report, England is higher than Wales or Scotland for percentage of people who fall into a high risk or dependent AUDIT score category, consuming more than 15 units per week, drink 4 or more days a week, and who binge drink (defined at more than 6 units for women or 8 for men) 'most days' or 'every day'.

 

[dk1]

I heard about the immanent lifting of the ban when staying in Broughty Ferry back in April. I used several Scotrail services in those days and felt almost sorry for the catering staff whom I’m sure would’ve done far more trade if allowed to sell beers wine & spirits, particularly in the late afternoon/early evening.

 

[styles]

I heard about the immanent lifting of the ban when staying in Broughty Ferry back in April. I used several Scotrail services in those days and felt almost sorry for the catering staff whom I’m sure would’ve done far more trade if allowed to sell beers wine & spirits, particularly in the late afternoon/early evening.

That's probably the greatest difference.

Be interesting to see a year by year comparison of ScotRail's catering sales.

 

[nw1]

Maybe but according to the report, England is higher than Wales or Scotland for percentage of people who fall into a high risk or dependent AUDIT score category, consuming more than 15 units per week, drink 4 or more days a week, and who binge drink (defined at more than 6 units for women or 8 for men) 'most days' or 'every day'.

Why is drinking (small amounts, well under a pint) 4 or more days a week seen as a "risk" though? I thought that was very normal behaviour to be honest.

 

[snookertam]

While England's isn't perfect I'd say both Scotland and Ireland have a worse relationship with alcohol in society generally than England, so there's some sense in those different attitudes and laws.

Yes. The ScotRail ban was a blunt instrument that was never likely to be enforced, nor were staff supported to do so. However there does need to be steps taken regarding the level of alcohol consumption here.

 

[styles]

Why is drinking (small amounts, well under a pint) 4 or more days a week seen as a "risk" though? I thought that was very normal behaviour to be honest.

I suspect the AUDIT high risk and dependent scores (which would not be triggered merely by having one small beer a day - which would account for 4 points out of 16 required to get to high risk) and the binge drinking most days or every day are the greater concern.

For a male to be considered binge drinking it's 8 units, which is 3.5-4 pints of lager depending on your preferred flavour of urine (I can't stand lager). Doing that most days or every day is not normal behaviour.

 

[nw1]

I suspect the AUDIT high risk and dependent scores (which would not be triggered merely by having one small beer a day - which would account for 4 points out of 16 required to get to high risk) and the binge drinking most days or every day are the greater concern.

For a male to be considered binge drinking it's 8 units, which is 3.5-4 pints of lager depending on your preferred flavour of urine (I can't stand lager). Doing that most days or every day is not normal behaviour.

I certainly agree there! Only done that perhaps 5 times in my entire life, only in my 20s and 30s (sadly in the past now), and never in a single week.

 

[fishwomp]

I was on a Northern Trains unit last week, and the info screens were cycling through adverts - one of which was for booze, I don't recall which particular booze... but this struck me as a tad inconsistent with other TOCs..

 

[Vexed]

I was on a Northern Trains unit last week, and the info screens were cycling through adverts - one of which was for booze, I don't recall which particular booze... but this struck me as a tad inconsistent with other TOCs..

When Inches did their big advertising campaign a few weeks ago I saw some adverts on Thameslink trains and stations.

 

[185143]

I was on a Northern Trains unit last week, and the info screens were cycling through adverts - one of which was for booze, I don't recall which particular booze... but this struck me as a tad inconsistent with other TOCs..

Strongbow I think?

I've seen it too and again I'm not 100% certain

 

[duffield]

Strongbow I think?

I've seen it too and again I'm not 100% certain

Ah, Strongbow, I used to drink that many years ago before I discovered proper cider.

 

[JamesT]

Why is drinking (small amounts, well under a pint) 4 or more days a week seen as a "risk" though? I thought that was very normal behaviour to be honest.

I’ve seen various statements in the past from health bodies regarding there being no safe level of alcohol consumption. Although the effects will likely be less than for someone with a higher level of consumption, drinking every day doesn’t give the body any chance to recover.
It may be a generational or social circle thing, but drinking that often isn’t that common: https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-inf...022-part-1/adult-drinking#alcohol-consumption

Alcohol consumption in the last week

More than half (56%) of all adults reported drinking alcohol in the last week, and 11% of adults drank alcohol on five or more days.

The proportions who reported drinking in the last week increased with age from 46% of 16 to 24 year olds to 64% of those aged between 55 and 64 years old, and were lower in the older age groups (63% of those aged 65 to 74 and 54% of those aged 75 and over).

The proportions of those who drank alcohol on five or more days in the last week increased from 3% of 16 to 24 year olds to 21% of adults aged 75 and over.

 

[PG]

Makes mental note;
: When travelling back from Fort Bill in the evening, reserve a seat on the Caledonion Sleeper....

Yes, or LNER/XC if Aberdeen way.

Ironically this unbanning might sway some passengers to switch from LNER to ScotRail (an hour or so later) on Fridays, thus avoiding the alcohol ban on the 0952 ex-Aberdeen.

The alcohol-free policy will apply every Friday, on the 09.52 Aberdeen to London King's Cross train, between Aberdeen and Newcastle (and all calling points in between).