Tamworth - Nottingham Off-Peak Day Return

[dave_wm]

Hello,

A friend is going to Nottingham for an open day tomorrow, and I've had a look on the Cross Country website for ticket prices - it shows two different Off-Peak Day Returns with two different validities;

One, at £12.90, gives validity from 0900 and allows return throughout the evening peak.

The other, at £13.80, gives validity from 0930 and does not allow return between 1530 and 1815...

As he'll be buying at the station tomorrow, how does he make sure he gets the cheaper and more valid one?

Thanks,

David

 

[Paul Kelly]

Ask for the "Any Permitted" rather than the "Not Birmingham" off-peak day return. It is more flexible in terms of routeing and time restrictions and yet cheaper

 

[323235]

The Cheapest one appears to be Route Any Permitted. The more expensive one is bizarly a Route Not Birmingham.

So your friend should ask for a Route Any Permitted.

 

[dave_wm]

That is unbelievably idiotic as a ticketing system, but thanks for clarifying that - I'll tell him what to ask for

 

[island]

Arguably the ANY PERMITTED ticket is only valid via Birmingham (as a higher route-specific fare exists) but that's very unlikely to be enforceable.

 

[Welshman]

But then, who'd go from Tamworth to Nottingham via Birmingham when there's an hourly direct service via Derby?

 

[MCR247]

Arguably the ANY PERMITTED ticket is only valid via Birmingham (as a higher route-specific fare exists) but that's very unlikely to be enforceable.

If you got a direct train that would overrule that though wouldnt it?

 

[dave_wm]

All (or almost all) the direct half-hourly trains from Birmingham to Nottingham call at Tamworth anyway, so it would be completely unenforceable!

 

[yorkie]

As he'll be buying at the station tomorrow, how does he make sure he gets the cheaper and more valid one?

Don't agree to the sale of the more expensive ticket.

In fact, if they attempted to sell the more expensive ticket, they would be in breach of the rules on impartial retailing as specified in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA). Mentioning this, along with the possibility of going to Passenger Focus and ATOC if a resolution is not to your satisfaction, may lead to a speedy response to a complaint, in the unlikely event of this scenario occurring.

 

[island]

If you got a direct train that would overrule that though wouldnt it?

I don't think so. A ticket from BIRMINGHAM STNS to LONDON TERMINALS routed HIGH WYCOMBE can't be used on a Virgin service, although it would undoubtedly be a direct train (or a through train in ATOC's language).

 

[OwlMan]

Arguably the ANY PERMITTED ticket is only valid via Birmingham (as a higher route-specific fare exists) but that's very unlikely to be enforceable.

Why?
According to the NRG any route in the routeing Guide is permitted on an "any permitted ticket"

(From Section A of the NRG)

HOW TO DETERMINE PERMITTED ROUTES
Where the timetable offers journey opportunities over a longer route which is not covered by a through train service, the alternative options are included in the Routeing Guide. This may offer the customer a choice of routes for the same overall journey. If a choice of routes is available and the fare for the journey is described as "Any Permitted" route or is unrouted, you are free to choose any of the routes listed in the Guide. Where the fare specifies a particular route, you may choose only those routes listed in the Guide which pass through the station shown in the route description. The Routeing Guide may have to be used to find out how to reach the station shown in the route description. Where there are other permitted routes, these may also be used for the same journey provided the same or a lower fare applies.

 

[OwlMan]

However for certain ticket types the "Not Birmingham" is cheaper (peak times, first class, off peak (not day))

 

[island]

Why?
According to the NRG any route in the routeing Guide is permitted on an "any permitted ticket"

Further down you get:

An "any permitted" ticket cannot be used for
travel on a route not listed in the Routeing Guide for which a higher priced
route specific fare exists. It can be used on any route not listed in the
Routeing Guide for which a lower priced route specific fare exists.

But I misremembered the "not listed in the Routeing Guide" bit. Don't mind me...

 

[222007]

One, at £12.90, gives validity from 0900 and allows return throughout the evening peak.

Saver ticket (off-peak return) from the sounds of it

[/QUOTE]The other, at £13.80, gives validity from 0930 and does not allow return between 1530 and 1815...[/QUOTE]

This is definately an off-peak day ticket

 

[AlterEgo]

Don't agree to the sale of the more expensive ticket.

Indeed. The ticket should cost £12.90, and provided you ask explicitly for an "Any Permitted" ticket, I don't expect (!) you to have any problems (although it is worth noting that they should sell you the cheapest appropriate ticket for your needs anyway). It is admittedly bizarre that the "Not Birmingham" ticket is more expensive, in this case.

 

[John @ home]

One, at £12.90, gives validity from 0900 and allows return throughout the evening peak.

Saver ticket (off-peak return) from the sounds of it

No. The Off-Peak Day returns (CDRs) Tamworth - Nottingham are:

Route Any Permitted
CDR £12.90 B3 EMT (NFM08) CC (NFM09)
Restriction : B3
OUTWARD TRAVEL
By any train except those timed to depart Mondays to Fridays before 0900
RETURN TRAVEL
By any train

Route Not Birmingham
CDR £13.80 BX CC
Restriction : BX
OUTWARD/RETURN
By any train except those timed to depart Mondays to Fridays before 0930 or between 1530 and 1815

It seems to me that the cause of the discrepancy may well be that the company setting the fare for the Route Any Permitted ticket has changed from EMT to XC.

 

[island]

That doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me, although I suppose CC may have inherited the flow from EMT and not bothered to change the restriction code.