60847 St Peter's School Loco

[Viper]

Does anyone know the affiliation that brought the name to this loco? I've searched on here and elsewhere online and can't find anything that says why it was given that name.

 

[Gloster]

You have presumably put the question on LNER Encyclopedia ( .lner.info )? As there were three different ‘themes’ in only eight named locos, it is possible that they never settled on a policy for the V2 and the names were chosen for different reasons.

 

[Viper]

Thanks, I'll head over there and have a look.

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder if someone high up in the LNER went to school there. Was there also not an HST power car with this name?

 

[Gloster]

I wonder if someone high up in the LNER went to school there. Was there also not an HST power car with this name?

I think that this was a case of getting good publicity for the HST/InterCity by ‘twinning’ the loco with a locality using a traditional name. It was named on 5 November as Guy Fawkes was an old boy of the school.

 

[DarloRich]

I think that this was a case of getting good publicity for the HST/InterCity by ‘twinning’ the loco with a locality using a traditional name. It was named on 5 November as Guy Fawkes was an old boy of the school.

I am still going with an old school tie job

it is a pretty impressive and expensive place to go to school!

 

[Merthyr Imp]

There was an article about the naming of the locomotive in the April 1989 issue of The Railway Magazine.

During the naming ceremony at York Station in 1939, the LNER's Divisional General Manager referred to the school's claim to be the oldest public school in the country, and said by giving the engine its name including the date AD627 the LNER was giving recognition to this claim. He said it was the first engine on the LNER to be named after a public school and regarded the choice to be appropriate given the engine was being named in York.

It doesn't actually say why they chose to name an engine after a public school, although I note that 60860 was named 'Durham School'.

 

[Harvester]

It doesn't actually say why they chose to name an engine after a public school, although I note that 60860 was named 'Durham School'.

There should have been one more named after a public school (4804/60833 ‘The Royal Grammar School Newcastle Upon Tyne AD 1545’). Plates were cast at Darlington, but the then school headmaster refused to sanction the naming.

 

[The Crab]

There should have been one more named after a public school (4804/60833 ‘The Royal Grammar School Newcastle Upon Tyne AD 1545’). Plates were cast at Darlington, but the then school headmaster refused to sanction the naming.

I think the Southern had a similar problem with at least one of the Schools 4-4-0s.

 

[Rescars]

I think the Southern had a similar problem with at least one of the Schools 4-4-0s.

IIRC the headmaster of Uppingham was unimpressed. 923 was consequently renamed Bradfield.

At least the LNER was finding schools in its own territory. The Southern appeared to run out of suitable establishments and cast its net rather more widely. There can't have been many close connections between the SR and Malvern or Repton, for example.

 

[Gloster]

IIRC the headmaster of Uppingham was unimpressed. 923 was consequently renamed Bradfield.

At least the LNER was finding schools in its own territory. The Southern appeared to run out of suitable establishments and cast its net rather more widely. There can't have been many close connections between the SR and Malvern or Repton, for example.

According to D.L.Bradley, who had access to original documents, the headmaster of Uppingham considered that having a locomotive named after it was too much like (horror!) advertising. It did apparently run for a few months with the original name.

My feeling is that the Southern preferred to choose what were seen as the best public schools, even if out of area, to lesser ones in its area. My school was definitely in the SR’s area, but was only newly founded at the time and never got a loco. And if you are trying to subtly influence old boys to look on you kindly in their positions of power, the more major schools that you name, the better.

 

[DarloRich]

There can't have been many close connections between the SR and Malvern or Repton, for example.

Repton is a top tier public school. It is not beyond the realms that someone at the top of the SR went there. The old school tie once again

 

[Rescars]

According to D.L.Bradley, who had access to original documents, the headmaster of Uppingham considered that having a locomotive named after it was too much like (horror!) advertising. It did apparently run for a few months with the original name.

My feeling is that the Southern preferred to choose what were seen as the best public schools, even if out of area, to lesser ones in its area. My school was definitely in the SR’s area, but was only newly founded at the time and never got a loco. And if you are trying to subtly influence old boys to look on you kindly in their positions of power, the more major schools that you name, the better.

Was it merely coincidental that the first two members of the class (Eton and Winchester) were named after very distinguished institutions which just happened to be in locations where the SR and GWR were competing for business?

 

[Gloster]

Was it merely coincidental that the first two members of the class (Eton and Winchester) were named after very distinguished institutions which just happened to be in locations where the SR and GWR were competing for business?

I would think that it is more likely that they were chosen because they are the two oldest public schools in what was then the widely regarded meaning of the term. Good publicity, whatever Maunsell thought.

 

[Viper]

There was an article about the naming of the locomotive in the April 1989 issue of The Railway Magazine.

During the naming ceremony at York Station in 1939, the LNER's Divisional General Manager referred to the school's claim to be the oldest public school in the country, and said by giving the engine its name including the date AD627 the LNER was giving recognition to this claim. He said it was the first engine on the LNER to be named after a public school and regarded the choice to be appropriate given the engine was being named in York.

It doesn't actually say why they chose to name an engine after a public school, although I note that 60860 was named 'Durham School'.

That's really good insight, thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

According to D.L.Bradley, who had access to original documents, the headmaster of Uppingham considered that having a locomotive named after it was too much like (horror!) advertising. It did apparently run for a few months with the original name.

Interestingly it seems the nameplate survived and is at the school (from wikipedia info about the class). I wonder how soon it came into the possession of the school?
It seems a great many of the schools have their corresponding loco nameplate(s)

• A nameplate from 923, originally named Uppingham, is now displayed in the Undercroft under the great hall of Uppingham School.

 

[Rescars]

Interestingly it seems the nameplate survived and is at the school (from wikipedia info about the class). I wonder how soon it came into the possession of the school?
It seems a great many of the schools have their corresponding loco nameplate(s)

AIUI, at the time of the naming, the SR presented the various schools with impressive works photos of "their" locos. I wonder how many of these have survived.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The one for 910 seemingly survives as I asked that question when I was invited back there three years ago. I was told that it was in store. It, a huge framed picture, used to sit in Room 33 (a classroom) directly above the nameplate. As Secretary of the School Railway Society in the early to mid 1970’s, it was my job to keep that plate polished and always looking smart. The nameplate now sits high up in one of the corridors at the school, securely bolted to the wall.

‘Taylors was a City school, only moving to Moor Park in 1933. It still has very strong City links.

 

[Rescars]

The one for 910 seemingly survives as I asked that question when I was invited back there three years ago. I was told that it was in store. It, a huge framed picture, used to sit in Room 33 (a classroom) directly above the nameplate. As Secretary of the School Railway Society in the early to mid 1970’s, it was my job to keep that plate polished and always looking smart. The nameplate now sits high up in one of the corridors at the school, securely bolted to the wall.

‘Taylors was a City school, only moving to Moor Park in 1933. It still has very strong City links.

I suspect not all those photos were quite what they purported to be. The only one I have seen was proudly displayed. However, close inspection revealed that the loco in the photo was actually an imposter. The picture was of 911, but its name and number had been carefully masked and the recipient school's name and number elegantly substituted - the colour of the inserted details wasn't quite right and there were brushmarks visible which were a bit of a giveaway. But I guess when all is said and done, one V class would look just like any other!

 

[WesternLancer]

AIUI, at the time of the naming, the SR presented the various schools with impressive works photos of "their" locos. I wonder how many of these have survived.

Ref this, and @Clarence Yard interesting post about caring for the plate and knowledge of the photo I thought it would help to post a link to my source - which is obviously not definitive but does mention some of the photos

Most mentions are in the bullet point list below the table - not the table itself

List of SR V "Schools" class locomotives - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

specifically as below

• The nameplates from 924, Haileybury, are now displayed in Haileybury and Imperial Service College Library above a photograph of the locomotive, and in the Archives in Clock House, Haileybury.
• The nameplates from 929, Malvern, are now displayed in Malvern College Memorial Library below a photograph of the locomotive.
• A nameplate from 935, Sevenoaks, is currently displayed in the Science and Technology Centre of Sevenoaks School with a scale model of the locomotive and photographs of Sevenoaks schoolboys 'inspecting' the new loco in 1935.*

* presumably not a works photo in this case

Which presumably relates to info where the photographs are or were recently known to be on display - but of course these may not necessarily be the photos issued by the SR to the school originally - but it's probably reasonable to assume they could well be.

Interestingly - this list includes one of the schools I attended c40 years ago and states they have a nameplate on display. I have no recollection of the nameplate being on display 40 years ago, and would have been interested enough then to recall it I think. I wonder where it was in that era in the 1980s - maybe in store or maybe in an area of the school not accessible to us kids perhaps.

 

[30907]

One nameplate of 30907 Dulwich was certainly at the school 50+ years ago.

OT but St Peter's College Oxford (originally a Permanent Private Hall) has the appropriate nameplate, last seen in the bar... I imagine St Edmund Hall and Lady Margaret Hall also exist "ad loc" (on the relevant sites).

 

[Rescars]

Presumably there are no nameplates on the walls at Cheltenham, Repton or Stowe as "their" locos are still in one piece. Smart enough to have a nameplate, but even more exclusive to still have a complete loco!

 

[The exile]

Presumably there are no nameplates on the walls at Cheltenham, Repton or Stowe as "their" locos are still in one piece. Smart enough to have a nameplate, but even more exclusive to still have a complete loco!

Don’t know about the SR but I think BR sometimes used to cast 3 nameplates where there was an organisation to present one to.