One stop early - Fined

[aaran]

Hey there,

New here, hopeing someone can offer some advice.

I bought a ticket from Shifnal to London, and due to being late, ended up getting on one stop early (Telford). Didn't have time to get a ticket for the difference, and got on the train. I was instantly fined when I said I want to buy a ticket.

It's 3.80 for the fair and 50 for the fine.

Do I have any way to dispute this, or do I just need to own up to the mistake?

 

[jfollows]

Welcome to the forum!

It’s a Penalty Fare, not a fine from a prosecution, and it‘s usually the best way these offences are handled. Understand that boarding a train without a valid ticket is a criminal offence, so you could be prosecuted.
Not having time to buy a ticket isn’t going to fly, but if there were no facilities at Telford to buy tickets then that would be a valid reason. Otherwise, if you want to post the paperwork for the Penalty Fare people here may be able to see an error which would enable you to appeal it.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hey there,

New here, hopeing someone can offer some advice.

I bought a ticket from Shifnal to London, and due to being late, ended up getting on one stop early (Telford). Didn't have time to get a ticket for the difference, and got on the train. I was instantly fined when I said I want to buy a ticket.

It's 3.80 for the fair and 50 for the fine.

Do I have any way to dispute this, or do I just need to own up to the mistake?

Was this a Penalty Fare? (Those are technically not fines although it will seem like it).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@aaran. Welcome to the forum. As @jfollows has said, looks like you've received a Penalty Fare. Might be worth posting a photo of same on here. Please cover up any name and address and any reference ID showing. Guessing though that you simply didn't have a valid ticket or tickets for the entirety of your journey.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Legally speaking, you must have a valid ticket before you board the train and based on what you've told us you didn't possess one for the part of your journey between Telford and Shifnal. Unless there was no open ticket office or working ticket machine then however unfair it sounds, you've comitted a criminal offence.

It sounds as though you've been issued with a Penalty Fare which if you pay it within 21-days is £50 plus the fare avoided. Althouhgh it feels like a fine technically it isn't - only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction.

You are entitled to appeal but ordinarily I wouldn't expect an appeal to succeed. I'd pay up and chalk it up to experience. There might be some very technical reasons why the Penalty Fare was invalid (normally related to signage) but this is a complicated area and I will let other forum members who are more knowledgable in this area than me advise on this.

 

[aaran]

Correct, it's a Penalty Fare. I guess is what it is.. Just shame I see so many people get away with it, and I didn't today...

 

[furlong]

I bought a ticket from Shifnal to London, and due to being late, ended up getting on one stop early (Telford). Didn't have time to get a ticket for the difference, and got on the train. I was instantly fined when I said I want to buy a ticket.
It's 3.80 for the fair and 50 for the fine.

Please check the £3.80 amount really says £3.80 and not something else. (Or post an image showing it.)

And what was the ticket type from Shifnal to London - a walk-up ticket or some type of "Advance" or multiple tickets? (If Advance or multiple tickets, please give a full breakdown of the tickets - how much paid, what route, any discounts etc.?)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Please check the £3.80 amount really says £3.80 and not something else.

Indeed. Good point. An Anytime Day Single from Telford (Central) to Shifnal should, I think, only be £3.60 at present, or £3.40 if the journey was made before the early in March 2025 fares revision.

 

[aaran]

Paid the penalty fare. Like you all said, I was in the wrong, and I accept that.

For added context, and corrections, the fare from Telford to Shifnal was £3.60. And the penalty fare was £100, or £50 if payed early.

The Original ticket was an "Advance", from Shifnal to London.

 

[furlong]

How much exactly was the Advance then?

 

[Starmill]

Did you pay £53.60 in total? It appears that's accurate if you did?

 

[aaran]

How much exactly was the Advance then?

£30.50

Did you pay £53.60 in total? It appears that's accurate if you did?

Yes

 

[Starmill]

Thank you. It seems likely that the Penalty Fare is accurate.

 

[furlong]

£30.50

So there appears to be a big fare jump on the Advance (V2P) between those stations suggesting buying the separate single in combination with that Advance would have been the right thing to do if you'd planned to travel from Telford originally. Indeed, trainsplit.com currently suggests exactly this combination at these prices for the 10:18 tomorrow.

Or in other words, someone making this journey from Telford to London would be best advised to have bought the exact ticket that you did from Shifnal together with a single from Telford to Shifnal - but this second ticket has to be purchased BEFORE boarding the train. As such, a sceptic might suggest you knew the ticket from Shifnal was a lot cheaper than from Telford and there was always going to be a high chance you'd decide to travel from Telford.

As to disputing it, all you can do is follow the instructions on the Penalty Fare notice to open an appeal on the grounds that words on the signage at Telford do not meet the requirements of the Penalty Fare regulations and therefore the Penalty Fare was not issued in accordance with those regulations. (A simpler version of this example: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stansted-airport-fines.253779/page-3#post-6421189 ) You should also mention that you didn't have enough time etc. as a 'compelling reason' and the Advance meant delaying your journey to purchase the extra ticket was not an option - ideally backed up with specific timings and any evidence you have to prove this.

An appeal in the situation you describe doesn't usually succeed but there's nothing to be lost in trying. If you get lucky and the appeal succeeds (and you get up to 3 chances) you get the £50 returned to you.

 

[driverd]

Quick question to those who may know the answer...

In this case, the OP had a valid fare for part of their journey. If there was only a TVM at the station they boarded, and they wished to excess the original fare vice purchase a new ticket, where would you stand?

Clearly you can't excess on a TVM and would only be able to do this with the guard. They would have a partially valid ticket and a request to excess (atleast when I was a guard), would always have flown as legitimate in such circumstances - but just because the TOC I used to work for was happy for us to do that, doesn't always mean its correct.

 

[furlong]

In this case, the OP had a valid fare for part of their journey. If there was only a TVM at the station they boarded, and they wished to excess the original fare vice purchase a new ticket, where would you stand?

Clearly you can't excess on a TVM and would only be able to do this with the guard. They would have a partially valid ticket and a request to excess (atleast when I was a guard), would always have flown as legitimate in such circumstances - but just because the TOC I used to work for was happy for us to do that, doesn't always mean its correct.

Under the current rules, there is no possible excess in the circumstances of this thread. Firstly because it was an Advance (and the excess would anyway have been greater than the cost of the single new ticket to fill the gap) and secondly there is no excess available (under the TSA) to change the Origin of a ticket. (Over-distance excesses only touch the Destination and are tightly regulated and rarely applicable - only when the original point of sale was incapable of selling that ticket and the route actually used is common to both tickets.)

 

[Starmill]

Most types of excess are unlikely to be a right under the Conditions. It's possible that a change of route would be. It may also be argued that travelling at a time not permitted, but otherwise with a valid ticket, is too. But neither appears to be relevant in these circumstances.

 

[AlterEgo]

Most types of excess are unlikely to be a right under the Conditions. It's possible that a change of route would be.

Change of route, change of ticket type from time restricted walkup to another walkup, and non-permitted break of journey are the only three I believe are enshrined in the Conditions.

 

[styles]

Correct, it's a Penalty Fare. I guess is what it is.. Just shame I see so many people get away with it, and I didn't today...

For what it's worth, you can never be sure these other people are getting away with it.

If people habitually evade fares on the railway, they eventually get caught.

Sometimes they come to this forum on the back of an operator having trawled through their online ticket purchase history facing hefty settlement figures or court proceedings resulting in criminal records.

Just because someone appears to be getting away with it, doesn't mean they are or that they always will.