MP calls for extra stop on West Coast service

[Pumbaa]

As much as I think it's a stupid idea, it is achievable. The Lancaster terminators shunt up to Carnforth, before returning to the Up platform to pick up the service. So technically it *is* possible, they just run in service to Carnforth. And they get 3? services a day to/from London.

 

[tbtc]

David Morris, the MP for Morecambe and Lunesdale, believes that a direct link for Carnforth will help boost tourism and local industry

People living in Carnforth are calling for a direct high speed train link to London

He's right, it would help boost tourism and local industry. The same could be said of stopping trains at *any* station though.

It'd be a waste of time stopping WCML services at Carnforth, as has been said by others. If the London - Glasgow service is going to run non-stop through places like Milton Keynes then I don't think that the 5,000 people in Carnforth are very high up the list...

A bigger more realistic boost would be additional (part route) services on the Leeds - Lancaster route to give a half hourly Carnforth - Lancaster service (when combined with the Barrow service). Local practical improvements, rather than worrying about everywhere having direct high speed services to London...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

As much as I think it's a stupid idea, it is achievable. The Lancaster terminators shunt up to Carnforth, before returning to the Up platform to pick up the service. So technically it *is* possible, they just run in service to Carnforth. And they get 3? services a day to/from London.

Aren't all three Lancaster daytime terminators being extended to Glasgow though?

 

[northwichcat]

If the London - Glasgow service is going to run non-stop through places like Milton Keynes then I don't think that the 5,000 people in Carnforth are very high up the list...

While I don't think Carnforth's annual passenger numbers are high enough for a London call I do think they are very high for a town with 5,000 people living there.

 

[bengolding]

The key issue with Nuneaton is that it is a mjor interchange to/from the East Midlands. Prior to VHF, most of the demand for the hourly VT Liverpool was from customers from East Mids to the North West as opposed to those from Nuneaton, who now have to change at New St. A stop on the hourly Chester service is the best outcome but unlikely given VTs obsession with sub-2 hour journeys to Chester. The few non-stop trains from Euston take as little as 52 mins currently.

 

[Lampshade]

While I don't think Carnforth's annual passenger numbers are high enough for a London call I do think they are very high for a town with 5,000 people living there.

Also imagine the publicity material VT could come up with given Brief Encounter was filmed there.

 

[The Planner]

Wow, didn't realise Virgin actually got to say whether they wanted to stop or not... :roll:

Well, unless the Dft suddenly move away from journey time orientation, they wouldn't add the stops either I suspect.

 

[tbtc]

While I don't think Carnforth's annual passenger numbers are high enough for a London call I do think they are very high for a town with 5,000 people living there.

Not high enough to slow down London - Glasgow trains (and lose passengers to airlines) though

Everyone wants to fight for better services to their local station, sure, especially publicity-seeking MPs, but if London - Glasgow goes non-stop through dozens of other stations then I think Carnforth is a bit speculative...

(awaits a poster suggesting someone starts an Open Access service to reach this untapped demand of direct fast London - Carnforth services)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I would like to set up an OAO calling at just Euston, Crewe, Preston and Lancaster then all shacks to Barrow to cater for the massive South lakes-Capital demand. Ideally with HSTs.

Or, how about 5tpd Wrexham-London with LHCS

 

[tbtc]

I would like to set up an OAO calling at just Euston, Crewe, Preston and Lancaster then all shacks to Barrow to cater for the massive South lakes-Capital demand. Ideally with HSTs.

Or, how about 5tpd Wrexham-London with LHCS

What? No Droitwich?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think this is best:

8 trains a day:
Paddington, Reading, Oxford, Evesham, Worcester SH, Droitwich (all with HSTs)

6tpd:
Euston, Crewe, Preston, Lancaster, Carnforth and all stations to Barrow (all with rare class and none existent mark of coaches)

4tpd:
Marylebone, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Tame Bridge Parkway, Wolves, Cosford, Telford, Wellington (Salop), Shrewsbury, Gobowen, Chirk, Ruabon and Wrexham (all with Mallard and other historic steamers)

 

[All Line Rover]

I think this is best:

8 trains a day:
Paddington, Reading, Oxford, Evesham, Worcester SH, Droitwich (all with HSTs)

6tpd:
Euston, Crewe, Preston, Lancaster, Carnforth and all stations to Barrow (all with rare class and none existent mark of coaches)

4tpd:
Marylebone, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Tame Bridge Parkway, Wolves, Cosford, Telford, Wellington (Salop), Shrewsbury, Gobowen, Chirk, Ruabon and Wrexham (all with Mallard and other historic steamers)

I can't comment on the first 2, but number 3 is a nice idea that will never work. THERE IS NO DEMAND IN WREXHAM FOR A DIRECT SERVICE TO LONDON THAT GOES VIA THE CHILTERNS!!!

WSMR went bust primilarly because of lack of demand - not because of interference from Virgin. They may have done slightly better if they would pick up from Wolverhampton, but it still wouldn't have been a profitable operation.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I can't comment on the first 2, but number 3 is a nice idea that will never work. THERE IS NO DEMAND IN WREXHAM FOR A DIRECT SERVICE TO LONDON THAT GOES VIA THE CHILTERNS!!!

WSMR went bust primilarly because of lack of demand - not because of interference from Virgin. They may have done slightly better if they would pick up from Wolverhampton, but it still wouldn't have been a profitable operation.

Virgin showed quite an interest in Telford and Shrewsbury once WSMR created the market...

 

[All Line Rover]

Virgin showed quite an interest in Telford and Shrewsbury once WSMR created the market...

Shrewsbury definitely has a market, with over 1.5 million passengers per year (that's similar to most Virgin Trains stations, and is more compared to Stafford).

So perhaps there is a London to Shrewsbury market (but not a London to Wrexham market). Even then it would not be profitable if it went via the Chilterns, because most people prefer a faster journey time. The simplest solution would be to extend the London to Wolverhampton Virgin Trains service to Shrewsbury. I don't understand why the DfT hasn't thought of this!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Maybe because there's no OHLE? Or there's no way to replan the diagrams and timetables to accommodate it?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Chapeltown in sheffield has a population of 10,000 at 2001 cencus, please can i have a service to london? we even have a station just thought it was worth a shot.

 

[tbtc]

Chapeltown in sheffield has a population of 10,000 at 2001 cencus, please can i have a service to london? we even have a station just thought it was worth a shot.

Why not?

There's another thread on here asking for a line to be opened to Llangefni (pop 4,500) - Chapletown needs a second station in that case

Seriously though, if somewhere like Rotherham/ Barnsley/ Huddersfield/ Bolton/ Middlesbrough/ Shrewsbury/ Paisley/ Livingston etc don't get a London service then I think Carnforth is a pretty low priority - I'm not even sure it'd be in the top hundred stations needing a London link (which don't have one already)

 

[David Dunning]

i remember when Northallerton had one train to London every day . Now it's virtually hourly. Back then Intercity said Northallerton wasn't worth serving , but as services have increased people have switched from York to Northallerton (and now Thirsk too with Grand Central) North Yorkshire now has 4 tocs running London services from here.
(Summer Weekend Scarboro to St Pan Int incl although maybe not a true London link)
I see Carnforth as being very similar in terms of ability to become a railhead. However Oxenholme and Lancaster are not really that far away so may it has less of case than Thirsk .

 

[PR1Berske]

20 odd years ago, this would have worked, probably. It's just not feasible anymore - as Virgin rightly state, it's not possible to run a WCML service which slows and stops at Preston, for to run slower to stop at Carnforth, then to run and stop at Lancaster.

TransPennine might just do it, but if they're showcasing Manc -> Scotland as a trump card for any franchise arrangements, then slowing down at an extra stop in a small town wouldn't look very good in the proposal documents.

 

[S19]

I always find Carnforth station handy whenever I need to go to Preston, or connect to another service at Piccadilly.

The connections can be a bit crap at Lancaster from Morecambe, plus a lot of the time it is quicker to drive to Carnforth station than Lancaster because of our crappy road system

That said, it's pointless trying to do anything with Carnforth. If anyone is travelling to London from the South Lakes they can change at Lancaster or Preston. All the TPE services I get from Carnforth are always quite full.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

While I don't think Carnforth's annual passenger numbers are high enough for a London call I do think they are very high for a town with 5,000 people living there.

There is another thread currently running on the forum concerning small towns with very high passenger useage, which has attracted many forum members to make postings.

 

[AlterEgo]

(Summer Weekend Scarboro to St Pan Int incl although maybe not a true London link)

Eh? Since when.....I'm interested....

 

[tbtc]

Eh? Since when.....I'm interested....

EMT have been serving Scarbrough for quite a while - weekend only service (only as far as York during the winter months).

Simialrly EMT have run:

• HSTs to Skegness on summer weekends
• Meridians to Liverpool for the Grand National
• HST/Meridians to Lincoln for the Christmas Market

None of these would have happened if we still have one "Inter City" and one "Provincial" company in the East Midlands.

 

[gordonthemoron]

since MML, St.P d. 6:37 Scarborough a. 11:06, Scarborough d. 17:06 St.P a. 21:06, Saturdays Only, uses a Meridian these days

 

[cuccir]

Surely the biggest improvement for Carnforth would be increased services on the Leeds-Carnforth line? Two more services a day would boost it to every two hours between 7 and 7, which would provide a slightly more reliable cross-pennine connection, particularly if it could be run to a clockface timetable, reducing pressure on the Leeds-Manchester corridor, and improving access between the Morecambe Bay area and the whole east of the country. Furthermore, this would help the rural communities to the east of the MP's constituency.

 

[AlterEgo]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

since MML, St.P d. 6:37 Scarborough a. 11:06, Scarborough d. 17:06 St.P a. 21:06, Saturdays Only, uses a Meridian these days

Ah, apologies, misread and thought the poster implied the service called at Northallerton.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Personally, I would prefer that the Leeds-Carnforth-Lancaster to be truncated to Skipton (i.e. Skipton-Carnforth-Lancaster) and run more frequently. This would ofcourse mean that passengers from east of Skipton would have to get a connecting train, but they already run far more frequently than the through services.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Personally, I would prefer that the Leeds-Carnforth-Lancaster to be truncated to Skipton (i.e. Skipton-Carnforth-Lancaster) and run more frequently. This would ofcourse mean that passengers from east of Skipton would have to get a connecting train, but they already run far more frequently than the through services.

I believe it has been mentioned for settle to carlisle trains too. Does the station ahve capcity to hold two terminating trains at once though? i think its better to keep the odd extra services on the leeds-skipton semi fast stretch. I dont think people with shopping (a main reason to go to leeds for the day) will want to cahnge trains at skipton and would prefer current situation but with more trains. If demand increases expontentially you could always split carlisle/morcombe at skipton or beyond.

But i think this would much mroe benefit carnforth compared to the odd london service. If alliance rail get there way they will get one anyway.

 

[Zoe]

Wow, didn't realise Virgin actually got to say whether they wanted to stop or not

Under the new franchise though it will just be a minimum requirement and it will be possible for the TOC to make extra station calls above the mimimum specification. This will be a bit difficult at Carnforth though due to the lack of platforms.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If somewhere like Rotherham/ Barnsley/ Huddersfield/ Bolton/ Middlesbrough/ Shrewsbury/ Paisley/ Livingston etc don't get a London service then I think Carnforth is a pretty low priority - I'm not even sure it'd be in the top hundred stations needing a London link (which don't have one already)

You have stated the case to perfection. Thank you for using Shrewsbury as an example.