Avanti and their delicious food

[Djgr]

As we all know, we are bombarded by vocal messages at major stations but these are factual and objective.

However, Avanti services are described as having "delicous" food on board. Now delicious is not factual and objective. It is subjective. What I find delicious might not be so for you.

To make clear, these are not announcements on Avanti trains or at Avanti run stations that I am talking about. These are not Avanti owned announcements but typically at Network Rail stations.

So some questions:

a) Does this happen for other TOCs?
b) Do TOCs own the announcements relating to their trains at Network Rail stations?
b) Are Avanti allowed to do this? If so where does it stop? Really comfy seats? Tasteful colour scheme? Are there not impartiality issues?
c) Did any money change hands for turning public information into an advert? If so to and from whom?

 

[800001]

As we all know, we are bombarded by vocal messages at major stations but these are factual and objective.

However, Avanti services are described as having "delicous" food on board. Now delicious is not factual and objective. It is subjective. What I find delicious might not be so for you.

So some questions:

a) Does this happen for other TOCs?
b) Are Avanti allowed to do this? If so where does it stop? Really comfy seats? Tasteful colour scheme?
c) Did any money change hands for turning public information into an advert? If so to and from whom?

A) not heard it anywhere else
B) They can do what they want, and say what they want. Many companies say comfy seats etc
C) It takes a matter of minutes for someone to record a voice recording that can be played, and would most likely come out of the marketing budget at Avanti, if indeed it did cost them any money to make the recording.

 

[Djgr]

A) not heard it anywhere else
B) They can do what they want, and say what they want. Many companies say comfy seats etc
C) It takes a matter of minutes for someone to record a voice recording that can be played, and would most likely come out of the marketing budget at Avanti, if indeed it did cost them any money to make the recording.

To clarify these are announcements at non-Avanti run stations, that is non-Avanti announcements

 

[Zomboid]

It's an advert. They're allowed to use emotive language to describe the product.

 

[The exile]

As we all know, we are bombarded by vocal messages at major stations but these are factual and objective.

However, Avanti services are described as having "delicous" food on board. Now delicious is not factual and objective. It is subjective. What I find delicious might not be so for you.

So some questions:

a) Does this happen for other TOCs?
b) Are Avanti allowed to do this? If so where does it stop? Really comfy seats? Tasteful colour scheme?
c) Did any money change hands for turning public information into an advert? If so to and from whom?

Puts me in mind of the remark that “People’s Democratic Republic” really means “Autocratic Communist Dictatorship ”. What does that tell you about “delicious food”?
Seriously though - to me it backfires as it ought to be a given.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's not new, Virgin WC had the same "delicious food" announcement prior to the Avanti takeover.
Presumably GBR food, when it comes, will not be "delicious".

 

[godfreycomplex]

I heard this for the first time yesterday and my first thought was "how long until this makes it onto the forum"

 

[800001]

To clarify these are announcements at non-Avanti run stations, that is non-Avanti announcements

I see your post is now edited, would have helped if had stated that from the outset.

And as it’s an advert they can describe it how they wish. No different to M+S describing there food etc

 

[voyagerdude220]

I've definitely heard similar automated announcements at Preston before, referring to the Shop in coach C, offering a range of "delicious hot and cold snacks" or similar words to that effect.

 

[Djgr]

I see your post is now edited, would have helped if had stated that from the outset.

And as it’s an advert they can describe it how they wish. No different to M+S describing there food etc

But can Network Rail stations announcements include adverts? Can anybody else give me an example where this happens?

Surely there are impartiality issues? Using subjective terms such as "delicous" feels like pushing customers towards a particular TOC.

Can Network Rail announcements say "The next train to London is the LNWR service from platform 3 but don't catch this because Avanti is quicker".

 

[godfreycomplex]

But can Network Rail stations announcements include adverts? Can anybody else give me an example where this happens?

The BTP, for one thing

 

[Djgr]

I've definitely heard similar automated announcements at Preston before, referring to the Shop in coach C, offering a range of "delicious hot and cold snacks" or similar words to that effect.

Yes but I'm not talking about on train announcements

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2025 ==

The BTP, for one thing

Not really, in any meaningful sense, an advert

 

[Zomboid]

But can Network Rail stations announcements include adverts? Can anybody else give me an example where this happens?

Surely there are impartiality issues? Can Network Rail announcements say "The next train to London is the LNWR service from platform 3 but don't catch is because Avanti is quicker".

I don't see any issue here. By the time people are at the station they'll have made their mind up about which train they're trying to catch, and the addition of an adjective into a "this train has catering " type announcement isn't likely to make people change their mind.

What it's aimed at is the passengers who will be travelling on that train so that they know there's something available.

On your second point, it might not be broadcast on the PA, but that's exactly the advice you'd expect to get if you asked a member of staff.

 

[Djgr]

I don't see any issue here. By the time people are at the station they'll have made their mind up about which train they're trying to catch, and the addition of an adjective into a "this train has catering " type announcement isn't likely to make people change their mind.

What it's aimed at is the passengers who will be travelling on that train so that they know there's something available.

On your second point, it might not be broadcast on the PA, but that's exactly the advice you'd expect to get if you asked a member of staff.

Describing that a train has catering services with hot and cold food is fine. This is factual.

Describing them as delicious is subjective. It is not factual.

Would it be okay if the recorded announcement at York described "the next train to London at platform 3 is the 1325 LNER service with really comfy seats"?


"The next train" is a fact. The destination is a fact. The platform is a fact. The train operator is a fact. The time of departure is a fact. The description of the seats is subjective.

 

[AlterEgo]

Describing that a train has catering services with hot and cold food is fine. This is facual.

Describing them as delicious is subjective. It is not factual. Would it be okay if the recorded announcement at York described "the next train to London is the 1325 LNER service with really comfy seats"?

Which station did you hear this at? Which train company runs it, and which train company is Avanti in competition with at this station?

 

[RAPC]

But can Network Rail stations announcements include adverts? Can anybody else give me an example where this happens?

Surely there are impartiality issues? Using subjective terms such as "delicous" feels like pushing customers towards a particular TOC.

Can Network Rail announcements say "The next train to London is the LNWR service from platform 3 but don't catch this because Avanti is quicker".

1) Yes it can include what you consider to be promotional activity for TOCs. It is merely a description of available catering, with a bit of brand tone of voice applied.
2) No issue with impartiality, it is just promoting a relevant product to rail travellers. There is no reason why other TOCs cannot do the same if they wish to set something similar up for their equivalent offerings.
3) Some stations already advise on faster services where relevant via PIS and sometimes via staff announcements. An automated version could well be possible, just worded more professionally.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've not heard the announcement. Is it actually an advert, or is it along the lines of "the 1234 to London Euston, first class is in coach K, premium standard is in coach H, and there is a shop in Coach C serving delicious hot and cold food".

If the latter I'm a bit uncomfortable with it. There's enough audio sewage at railway stations without inserting superfluous adjectives into announcements which should be purely factual. What next, "Text 61016 and a hunky policeman will get back to you within twelve working months".

 

[godfreycomplex]

Not really, in any meaningful sense, an advert

How no?

"We are an organisation that will cease to exist without arresting people. Therefore please give us information that will allow us to arrest more people, allowing us to continue to exist" versus "We have a catering service that will cease to exist without selling food and drink. Therefore please buy some food and drink etc etc..." isn't worlds away, really

 

[Djgr]

Is it actually an advert, or is it along the lines of "the 1234 to London Euston, first class is in coach K, premium standard is in coach H, and there is a shop in Coach C serving delicious hot and cold food".

Yes, like that

 

[RT4038]

I've not heard the announcement. Is it actually an advert, or is it along the lines of "the 1234 to London Euston, first class is in coach K, premium standard is in coach H, and there is a shop in Coach C serving delicious hot and cold food".

If the latter I'm a bit uncomfortable with it. There's enough audio sewage at railway stations without inserting superfluous adjectives into announcements which should be purely factual. What next, "Text 61016 and a hunky policeman will get back to you within twelve working months".

This has been announced for 10+ years on Station Announcements for Virgin and then Avanti. It is not news. It is not something new to get indignant about.

 

[Djgr]

with a bit of brand tone of voice applied.

Are Network Rail allowed to apply "brand tone"? I can't see any other "brand tone" in general applied to Network Rail stations announcements. Why would Network Rail apply "brand tone"? It's not their brand and they (aka the taxpayer) receive no benefit from this.

What are the limits to "brand tone"? Are these documented somewhere?

 

[Djgr]

This has been announced for 10+ years on Station Announcements for Virgin and then Avanti. It is not news. It is not something new to get indignant about.

on the basis that something always becomes acceptable given enough time?

 

[RAPC]

Are Network Rail allowed to apply "brand tone"? I can't see any other "brand tone" in general applied to Network Rail stations announcements. Why would Network Rail apply "brand tone"? It's not their brand and they (aka the taxpayer) receive no benefit from this.

What are the limits to "brand tone"? Are these documented somewhere?

Brand tone is my descriptor for applying a word such as 'delicious', as it will align with how Avanti describe their food on their own marketing materials. Similarly, VT did the same prior to Avanti.

It is reasonable for a station announcement to describe services and available facilities. As these announcements have run for many years, they clearly are accepted by NR as suitable descriptions.

 

[bleeder4]

But can Network Rail stations announcements include adverts? Can anybody else give me an example where this happens?

Surely there are impartiality issues? Using subjective terms such as "delicous" feels like pushing customers towards a particular TOC.

Can Network Rail announcements say "The next train to London is the LNWR service from platform 3 but don't catch this because Avanti is quicker".

At Birmingham New St - a Network Rail managed station - Avanti and XC services to Edinburgh often depart within 15 minutes of each other. The XC journey takes 5 hours, the Avanti journey takes 4 hours. It is not unusual to hear staff announcements over the tannoy advising passengers travelling on open tickets to consider getting Avanti, as it is quicker. Presumably this also happens if they get word from XC that the incoming train is full and standing and they're concerned about capacity.

 

[Zomboid]

Describing that a train has catering services with hot and cold food is fine. This is factual.

Describing them as delicious is subjective. It is not factual.

Would it be okay if the recorded announcement at York described "the next train to London at platform 3 is the 1325 LNER service with really comfy seats"?


"The next train" is a fact. The destination is a fact. The platform is a fact. The train operator is a fact. The time of departure is a fact. The description of the seats is subjective.

I really don't see the issue here. Is the railway not permitted to advertise its services in its own announcements? Yes it's subjective but so what?

I'm sure that if LNR or whoever had a catering offering they'd be allowed to use an adjective as well.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Which station did you hear this at? Which train company runs it, and which train company is Avanti in competition with at this station?

At Crewe, Avanti has competition from WMT, Northern, TfW, EMR and (occasionally) XC. No food on WMT, Northern or EMR (from Crewe).

 

[185]

Stupid CIS signage at Crewe now welcomes you to Avanti West Coast. Like they're ashamed of saying welcome to Crewe.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Yes but I'm not talking about on train announcements

I wasn't either.

 

[station_road]

Are Network Rail allowed to apply "brand tone"? I can't see any other "brand tone" in general applied to Network Rail stations announcements. Why would Network Rail apply "brand tone"? It's not their brand and they (aka the taxpayer) receive no benefit from this.

What are the limits to "brand tone"? Are these documented somewhere?

It's nothing to do with Network Rail - you will hear the same announcement at Crewe, Preston and many other Avanti served stations and it has been played for years.

 

[AlterEgo]

At Crewe, Avanti has competition from WMT, Northern, TfW, EMR and (occasionally) XC. No food on WMT, Northern or EMR (from Crewe).

The OP says they heard it at Network Rail stations, so it would be interesting to hear from them as to which ones. I've not noticed this.