Northern TIR for EMR ticket - expired railcard

[manchestertir]

Hi All,

I have been given a Travel Incident Report by Northern Trains staff at a checkpoint in Manchester Piccadilly after disembarking from a Nottingham to Manchester Piccadilly train, operated by EMR. This was due to my girlfriend having purchased a ticket for me that used a railcard discount (i had forgotten to renew this and it had expired about a month prior to this journey).

I wasn’t given the opportunity to pay on the spot, with the Northern staff saying I would receive a mail from EMR in a few weeks. This was on 18th May and i am yet to receive anything in the mail - EMR also has no details on the case after i contacted their prosecution
team.

Does anyone know what I can expect in this case? I’m happy to pay up as it is my mistake (although i did get a rail card renewal reminder email in 2024, none this year!), but i am concerned if i would miss out on a potential lower penalty if paid early (and i’d somehow miss this if the mail got lost),

Thanks in advance!

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Could you show us the TIR please? Be sure to redact your identifying details and any reference number. The pros should be here to advise you later.

 

[manchestertir]

Hey!

I’ve attached the TIR

Thank you!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi All,

I have been given a Travel Incident Report by Northern Trains staff at a checkpoint in Manchester Piccadilly after disembarking from a Nottingham to Manchester Piccadilly train, operated by EMR. This was due to my girlfriend having purchased a ticket for me that used a railcard discount (i had forgotten to renew this and it had expired about a month prior to this journey).

I wasn’t given the opportunity to pay on the spot, with the Northern staff saying I would receive a mail from EMR in a few weeks. This was on 18th May and i am yet to receive anything in the mail - EMR also has no details on the case after i contacted their prosecution
team.

Does anyone know what I can expect in this case? I’m happy to pay up as it is my mistake (although i did get a rail card renewal reminder email in 2024, none this year!), but i am concerned if i would miss out on a potential lower penalty if paid early (and i’d somehow miss this if the mail got lost),

Thanks in advance!

If it was northern staff who stopped you then it will be northern who write to you not EMR. The railway companies act for each other on stuff like this it doesn’t matter who operated the train you were on with the wrong ticket.

EMR do not have staff at the stations in Manchester.

Gateline staff who took your details might well not actually know this.

 

[Lewisham2221]

If it was northern staff who stopped you then it will be northern who write to you not EMR. The railway companies act for each other on stuff like this it doesn’t matter who operated the train you were on with the wrong ticket.

EMR do not have staff at the stations in Manchester.

Gateline staff who took your details might well not actually know this.

Not strictly true. TOCs can, and do, pass on information and evidence to other TOCs for them to investigate themselves.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not strictly true. TOCs can, and do, pass on information and evidence to other TOCs for them to investigate themselves.

I don’t think that an MG11 or other report for prosecution has ever resulted in it being passed to another TOC for them to contact the passenger, though.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I don’t think that an MG11 or other report for prosecution has ever resulted in it being passed to another TOC for them to contact the passenger, though.

Yes, I admit it exceptionally unlikely and unheard of for them to pass anything over for the initial offence, and in the OP's case it is therefore likely that all their dealings will be with Northern (unless there's been some change of policy that we're unaware of).

If any resulting purchase history audit were to throw up signs of anything more serious though, it is certainly possible that things could be passed over to whichever TOC was primarily affected. Alas, I am meandering off topic here.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, I admit it exceptionally unlikely and unheard of for them to pass anything over for the initial offence, and in the OP's case it is therefore likely that all their dealings will be with Northern (unless there's been some change of policy that we're unaware of).

If any resulting purchase history audit were to throw up signs of anything more serious though, it is certainly possible that things could be passed over to whichever TOC was primarily affected. Alas, I am meandering off topic here.

Something of a clue in the op where when asked EMR had no record of it.

The op can be reasonably confident that Northern will be dealing with this imho.

Standard railcard purchase error case by the look of it.

 

[RPI]

I don’t think that an MG11 or other report for prosecution has ever resulted in it being passed to another TOC for them to contact the passenger, though.

It used to happen a lot in the early 2000's but not much anymore.

 

[manchestertir]

Hi All! Thanks for your input, didn’t occur to me that it would be Northern dealing with this, i’ve contacted their prosecution unit earlier today with details of the incident to see what’s going on with the case.

Would i be correct that i’m looking at paying the full fare + an additional cost? For context this would be my first stop/penalty and i haven’t had any other tickets with an expired railcard.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi All! Thanks for your input, didn’t occur to me that it would be Northern dealing with this, i’ve contacted their prosecution unit earlier today with details of the incident to see what’s going on with the case.

Would i be correct that i’m looking at paying the full fare + an additional cost? For context this would be my first stop/penalty and i haven’t had any other tickets with an expired railcard.

It’s generally better not to contact them but to wait for them to contact you and take it from there. But see what they say

Who did you contact? If it was customer services they wouldn’t know anything really.

 

[manchestertir]

It’s generally better not to contact them but to wait for them to contact you and take it from there. But see what they say

Who did you contact? If it was customer services they wouldn’t know anything really.

Yeah I did have this thinking but the anxiety of it escalating to higher fees/ court summons or something along those lines if i never received anything in the mail got to me!

I emailed the debt repayment and prosecutions unit (drpu) email from the northern website with all the information from the incident (albeit i didn’t think to add the reference number), after having tried the customer services on both EMR and Northern said they couldn’t do anything and pointed me to the relevant prosecutions teams,

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi All! Thanks for your input, didn’t occur to me that it would be Northern dealing with this, i’ve contacted their prosecution unit earlier today with details of the incident to see what’s going on with the case.

Would i be correct that i’m looking at paying the full fare + an additional cost? For context this would be my first stop/penalty and i haven’t had any other tickets with an expired railcard.

Don’t talk to them until they contact you. Say nothing at all. You risk incriminating yourself further.

They’ll get to you in time; it isn’t in your interests to remind them of your offence.

It’ll likely be full fare plus their admin fees, but just wait for them to write.