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Hence why the whole intergrated (I’d say bodged) tram train concept is and will be a failure. Forcing a change at Queen Street to allow access to Barry island is going to be a huge nightmare to name but one example.
Your a parent with a few kids in tow, it’s mid 20s outside the kids want to go to Barry Islam for the day (along with the rest of the Rhonnda valley) you think ah yes the new train network !
You board the shiny new tram at Merthyr, you even get a seat ! Fantastic!
You get down to Pontypridd it’s getting busy now but fear not you’ve a seat.
Little one needs a wee now!
Off we pop at Pontypridd to use the WC as there isn’t one on the train. No bother you’ll just get the next one.
Wee missing complete you wait for the next train….cancelled dam.
Not to worry the next one is in 15 minutes.
The shiny new tram arrives…it’s packed with the rest of the Rhonnda valley.
You spend the next half hour jammed with your kids standing in the door way until you get to queen street.
“This train is for Cardiff bay only, change here for Barry Island”
Eh !? Change didn’t they used fo go direct ?
Oh well it is what it is….
Next train 10 minutes…direct to Barry island…that’s not to bad.
Next train arrives it’s packed with the communities of the Rhymney valley.
3 cars or if your lucky 4 to Barry island with all the stops beyond to go !
At this point you think sod this and go back home.
Please tell me with straight face this won’t happen, and would you in those circumstances ever bother again ?
Ahem. You do realise that the pits have shut and miner's fortnight is no longer a thing, don't you?
The idea that a whole rail system designed around commuter flows to Cardiff should be sacrificed to serve a rose-tinted, Joe Maplinesque view about where passengers actually want to go is nostalgic nonsense.
The rail services, like the road access to Barry Island, are clogged on a couple of bank holiday weekends a year, and that's it.
Your a parent with a few kids in tow, it’s mid 20s outside the kids want to go to Barry Islam for the day (along with the rest of the Rhonnda valley) you think ah yes the new train network !
You board the shiny new tram at Merthyr, you even get a seat ! Fantastic!
You get down to Pontypridd it’s getting busy now but fear not you’ve a seat.
...
Off we pop at Pontypridd
you wait for the next train….cancelled dam.
Not to worry the next one is in 15 minutes.
The shiny new tram arrives…it’s packed with the rest of the Rhonnda valley.
You spend the next half hour jammed with your kids standing in the door way until you get to queen street.
“This train is for Cardiff bay only, change here for Barry Island”
Merthyr isn't in the Rhondda valley so idk why you picked Merthyr.
Pontypridd will be served by 12 trains an hour. So worst case you get off etc, wait for another one oh that's cancelled (which should be less likely once the works are all completed but sure it'll happen), you'll have 5 minutes wait not 15!
Another tram arrives which may be Rhondda, Cynon or Taff in origin.
The trams are designed with lots of standing space so you shouldn't be slammed into the doorway, not least because there's 12 trains an hour from pontypridd, and 4 for each valley, they won't all be that packed.
And as for changing trains for Barry they've had to change trains since last June.
Now clearly you're not a fan of TfW but we could do without a rant.
Merthyr isn't in the Rhondda valley so idk why you picked Merthyr.
Pontypridd will be served by 12 trains an hour. So worst case you get off etc, wait for another one oh that's cancelled (which should be less likely once the works are all completed but sure it'll happen), you'll have 5 minutes wait not 15!
Another tram arrives which may be Rhondda, Cynon or Taff in origin.
The trams are designed with lots of standing space so you shouldn't be slammed into the doorway, not least because there's 12 trains an hour from pontypridd, and 4 for each valley, they won't all be that packed.
And as for changing trains for Barry they've had to change trains since last June.
Now clearly you're not a fan of TfW but we could do without a rant.
I suspect iddybiddy05 is a railway employee who clearly has a grudge against TfW and Welsh Government.
To try to argue that the Flirts are a downgrade compared to Pacers and 150s, just because the overall capacity of a 4 car Flirt is marginally less than a doubled up 150, is frankly absurd.
Memories are short - 150s were rarely doubled up and a double Pacer combo was seen as a luxury.
It's easy to forget what a dire experience ATW was. I had to commute to college on Pacers where windows were completely misted up in winter, rain leaked in through the roof and through the windows, you could barely stand up straight, the screeching around curves was horrendous, bits of the inside of the train being held together with tape.......
Even now, the 150s that are left are chugging around, belting out clouds of grey or even black diesel fumes.
The Flirts are an absolute transformation compared to any rolling stock that's ever run on the Valleys, to argue otherwise is ridiculous.
The only lines that ever had a direct service to Barry Island were Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil.
Treherbert, Rhymney, Bargoed, Caerphilly, Coryton & City Line passengers managed for decades to change without issue and the service pattern since last June has held up in hot weather without collapsing.
Speaking on Butetown, does anyone know the rationale for building a station there, it being so close to Cardiff Bay Station.
The vast majority of local residents will walk to either the City Centre or Cardiff Bay. If you want to use it to catch a train at Cardiff Central then it would be a total waste to go via Queen's St.
Was it the case that the land was available, so let have a station? there are huge stretches on the Metro line without a station nearby, Heath Hospital is crying out for a station for example.
Where I live in Penarth there was a plan to have a station at Forest Road, using the railway path, even though it would only be a hundred yards or so from Penarth Station itself.
I wonder do TfW just want new stations for the sake of new stations instead of a well planned system!
It's easy to forget what a dire experience ATW was. I had to commute to college on Pacers where windows were completely misted up in winter, rain leaked in through the roof and through the windows, you could barely stand up straight, the screeching around curves was horrendous, bits of the inside of the train being held together with tape.......
Even now, the 150s that are left are chugging around, belting out clouds of grey or even black diesel fumes.
The Flirts are an absolute transformation compared to any rolling stock that's ever run on the Valleys, to argue otherwise is ridiculous.
I agree that the FLIRTS are a huge improvement - we'll see about the 398s and how happy people are when they come in, having been allowed to think by TfW that they will remain on services through Pontypridd.
But I was a frequent Pacer user under ATW and your description does not match mine. The only real problem I experienced was severe overcrowding in the rush hour.
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Ahem. You do realise that the pits have shut and miner's fortnight is no longer a thing, don't you?
The idea that a whole rail system designed around commuter flows to Cardiff should be sacrificed to serve a rose-tinted, Joe Maplinesque view about where passengers actually want to go is nostalgic nonsense.
The rail services, like the road access to Barry Island, are clogged on a couple of bank holiday weekends a year, and that's it.
I suspect iddybiddy05 is a railway employee who clearly has a grudge against TfW and Welsh Government.
To try to argue that the Flirts are a downgrade compared to Pacers and 150s, just because the overall capacity of a 4 car Flirt is marginally less than a doubled up 150, is frankly absurd.
Memories are short - 150s were rarely doubled up and a double Pacer combo was seen as a luxury.
It's easy to forget what a dire experience ATW was. I had to commute to college on Pacers where windows were completely misted up in winter, rain leaked in through the roof and through the windows, you could barely stand up straight, the screeching around curves was horrendous, bits of the inside of the train being held together with tape.......
Even now, the 150s that are left are chugging around, belting out clouds of grey or even black diesel fumes.
The Flirts are an absolute transformation compared to any rolling stock that's ever run on the Valleys, to argue otherwise is ridiculous.
The only lines that ever had a direct service to Barry Island were Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil.
Treherbert, Rhymney, Bargoed, Caerphilly, Coryton & City Line passengers managed for decades to change without issue and the service pattern since last June has held up in hot weather without collapsing.
My memory agrees with AdamWW. Under ATW lots of doubled up units in the valleys, where they ran singly almost always 150s. Biggest problem with commuting was overcrowding, not reliability or the state of the trains. That all changed when Pacers were withdrawn in TFW days, with most then single 150s apart from 769s on Rhymney line.
Historically some Rhymney/Bargoed services went to or from Barry Island. Can't recall when that changed to all Rhymney valley trains going to Penarth, possibly was to accommodate the 769s?
Give it 24 months it’ll all be built and working fabulously, we’ll be looking forward to fully funded and under construction tram lines in Cardiff it’ll be truly wonderful.
Speaking on Butetown, does anyone know the rationale for building a station there, it being so close to Cardiff Bay Station.
The vast majority of local residents will walk to either the City Centre or Cardiff Bay. If you want to use it to catch a train at Cardiff Central then it would be a total waste to go via Queen's St.
Was it the case that the land was available, so let have a station? there are huge stretches on the Metro line without a station nearby, Heath Hospital is crying out for a station for example.
Where I live in Penarth there was a plan to have a station at Forest Road, using the railway path, even though it would only be a hundred yards or so from Penarth Station itself.
I wonder do TfW just want new stations for the sake of new stations instead of a well planned system!
I think it was probably because of the original plan to move the Bay station further south, which would have made it less accessible to Butetown. I agree with you that it now seems to have a relatively small catchment area
I think it was probably because of the original plan to move the Bay station further south, which would have made it less accessible to Butetown. I agree with you that it now seems to have a relatively small catchment area
I'm not sure how heavily it'll be used either, but with trains planned to run to all the TAM lines, it will be a useful station to travel further afield than Queen Street. Maybe even people of reduced mobility or the slightly lazy will use it to get to Central from 2028.
If the line gets built through the docks to Splott, Tremorfa and Newport Road, it becomes even more useful.
Speaking on Butetown, does anyone know the rationale for building a station there, it being so close to Cardiff Bay Station.
The vast majority of local residents will walk to either the City Centre or Cardiff Bay. If you want to use it to catch a train at Cardiff Central then it would be a total waste to go via Queen's St.
Was it the case that the land was available, so let have a station? there are huge stretches on the Metro line without a station nearby, Heath Hospital is crying out for a station for example.
Where I live in Penarth there was a plan to have a station at Forest Road, using the railway path, even though it would only be a hundred yards or so from Penarth Station itself.
I wonder do TfW just want new stations for the sake of new stations instead of a well planned system!
The only thing I can find is in the 2013 Impact Study https://www.gov.wales/south-wales-metro-impact-study and that talks about two stations: one at Herbert St (so slightly north of where Butetown station is now) and another just south of Loudoun Square. This was on the basis that they would be tram stops so cheaper to implement.
Butetown proper (west of Bute St) is a poor part of town, so I can see that local politicians would have been keen to improve its connectivity with the hope of encouraging more and better employment for the people who live there. It is quite isolated - whilst Central station is not that far away as the crow flies, it's still a 10-15 minute walk away.
Sorry I meant the Cardiff bay station itself it seems the platform edge is slightly further north compared to the original one. I think because they're using some of the land for a bigger passenger flow area at the entrance.
I'm not sure how heavily it'll be used either, but with trains planned to run to all the TAM lines, it will be a useful station to travel further afield than Queen Street. Maybe even people of reduced mobility or the slightly lazy will use it to get to Central from 2028.
If the line gets built through the docks to Splott, Tremorfa and Newport Road, it becomes even more useful.
Sorry I meant the Cardiff bay station itself it seems the platform edge is slightly further north compared to the original one. I think because they're using some of the land for a bigger passenger flow area at the entrance.
Announcement today of closure of Ty Glas for @0 months while they rebuild it. This is a link to the TfW website. I'm the article it says they will be closing the station while they upgrade the foot crossing and then extend the platform. In the 10 months it is closed passengers are asked to walk the 8 minutes to Birchgrove.
Transport for Wales will be carrying out major upgrades to Ty Glas station and its level crossing, allowing for the introduction of brand-new trains onto the Coryton line.
Transport for Wales will be carrying out major upgrades to Ty Glas station and its level crossing, allowing for the introduction of brand-new trains onto the Coryton line.
Give it 24 months it’ll all be built and working fabulously, we’ll be looking forward to fully funded and under construction tram lines in Cardiff it’ll be truly wonderful.
What was the line about sarcasm being the lowest form of wit?
You see to fail to understand that the whole point of a functioning Metro is that most journeys will involve making a change either to a similar or to a different mode of transport. Just ask yourself how many users of LU or the Manchester Metro expect to be whisked from their home to their destination without making a change?
To use your own example. If I live in, let's say, Harrow, am I put off a day at the beach in Brighton, by the need to take two toiletless tube trains to Victoria and then change to a train?
The answer is yes, I might be. So, I might decide to take the kids to Legoland or wherever instead.
And that decision is infantesimably unimportant in terms of the passenger numbers and profit and loss figures ot the metro and rail operators.
The idea that passengers from some, but not all, railheads have a right to travel to some, but not all, other railheads without making a change is frankly for the birds.
You come across as someone who has a dislike for TfW and /or Welsh Government and are looking for something, anything to whinge about.
Transport for Wales will be carrying out major upgrades to Ty Glas station and its level crossing, allowing for the introduction of brand-new trains onto the Coryton line.
10 months??? With less than a month's notice is not on. Idk why I'm surprised at this point as others point out they're very bad at customer information.
10 months for one platform extension and level crossing walk is crazy. They did almost the whole of the Rhondda line work in not much more than that.
Is there some hidden complexity that makes this anywhere close to expected?
10 months??? With less than a month's notice is not on. Idk why I'm surprised at this point as others point out they're very bad at customer information.
10 months for one platform extension and level crossing walk is crazy. They did almost the whole of the Rhondda line work in not much more than that.
Is there some hidden complexity that makes this anywhere close to expected?
OK so who here can explain why building a short platform extension requires closing a station for 10 months to do so? (Or probably longer in reality).
Interesting that they aren't willing to offer a date as to when the level crossing is expected re-open. The diversion looks like it's 15 minutes or so extra walking which could be a bit of a pain for regular users.
Does anyone know if they have previously mentioned that Ty Glas will have to close for nearly a year? I've read a fair bit about the plans for the Metro and not seen this.
I realise they have given almost a month's notice but presumably they have known for longer that it was going to be necessary, even if not the exact dates.
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You could try adding seven unnecessary minutes to the walk to your nearest station, bus stop or car every day for the next 10 months and see how convenient you find it.
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Thinking about this some more....I don't recall the City Line closing for 10 months to extend the platforms and some of the stations are I think in cuttings so without particularly convenient access to the area. So I'd love to know what's so different about Ty Glas.
Not really the point though. If the station is redundant then they'd close it, it's clearly not though as they're spending money to extend the platform. Also an extra 15 minutes onto your journey to get the train for 10 months is probably enough to move some people away from getting the train. Will those people come back?
Regardless of how close the other station is too, there still stands the issue of how this can possibly take 10 months.
If Tfw are ever serious about new phases to the metro they need to work out how to do these things far more efficiently.
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Does anyone know if they have previously mentioned that Ty Glas will have to close for nearly a year? I've read a fair bit about the plans for the Metro and not seen this.
I realise they have given almost a month's notice but presumably they have known for longer that it was going to be necessary, even if not the exact dates.
I've been following this very closely and not once have I personally read anything to suggest a long closure would be necessary. Even for the Rhondda line there were rumours before hand that it might need a long closure but nothing for this. Imo both were very badly planned in terms of letting the public know.
I hope they maybe sent out leaflets to local residents to inform them a bit earlier but I doubt it.
10 months??? With less than a month's notice is not on. Idk why I'm surprised at this point as others point out they're very bad at customer information.
10 months for one platform extension and level crossing walk is crazy. They did almost the whole of the Rhondda line work in not much more than that.
Is there some hidden complexity that makes this anywhere close to expected?
Presumably it takes this long because the line is staying open and fully operational whilst the work is undertaken? The Treherbert line was completely shut whilst the work there was carried out.
You would hope that TfL have weighed up the inconvenience of closing the station vs the extra time/cost that the extension would require were the station to remain open during the works.
You could try adding seven unnecessary minutes to the walk to your nearest station, bus stop or car every day for the next 10 months and see how convenient you find it.
Which is amusing given that at present Ty Glas seems to be sacrosanct - it is very rare for them to turn a late running train round at Heath but very common not to go further than Ty Glas even if there's time to do so, and on the rare occasions they skip stops to recover the timetable Ty Glas is never skipped.
For most people, I expect walking to Birchgrove will be annoying but not a huge imposition. But it does seem a bit of a shame that the platform extension couldn't have been arranged in time. (Or even a temporary one as used at Taffs Well during the works there).
Presumably it takes this long because the line is staying open and fully operational whilst the work is undertaken? The Treherbert line was completely shut whilst the work there was carried out.
OK but how about comparing to the City Line where I don't think they had any station closures to extend the platforms?
And if I recall correctly, unlike some of the City Line stations, the area for the Ty Glas platform extension can be access externally so it's not at all clear to me why the station has to close for safety reasons.
You would hope that TfL have weighed up the inconvenience of closing the station vs the extra time/cost that the extension would require were the station to remain open during the works.
I presume they do consider the inconvenience of their actions and it would be unkind of me to suggest otherwise. But often it really doesn't feel like it.
They say:
TfW would like to thank the local community for their patience and understanding as they deliver these essential safety upgrades.
I'm afraid I lost patience with their appalling communications a long time ago, and I do not understand many of the things they do. There may well be a good reason for all the short notice announcements and apparently sub-optimal decisions, but as they just spew out positive spin and rarely explain anything, how would I know?
We expect to complete installing the new safety features by the end of the summer holidays. After that, we will need to go through a regulatory approvals process before the crossing can reopen. Once the upgrades are complete and we begin this approvals process, we'll be able to provide a more accurate estimate of when the crossing can be reopened.
Is this how things work on the railway now when changes are made on a level crossing? You do the work and only then can start an administrative process of unknown timescale? Is there no way that the work could be approved before it starts based on the plans, then someone just has to check they built what they said they would?
They also offer bus services as alternatives. The 86 does have stops slightly close to Ty Glas than Birchgrove station is, but only runs 7 times a day.
The 27 is frequent and I suppose depending on where you're coming from, might be a slightly shorter walk than to Birchgrove station.
The 21/3 involve walking almost to Rhiwbina station so I've no idea why they mention that.
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I've since seen it suggested that TfW provided a pdf timetable at the last timetable change showing no calls at Ty Glas, then when people asked why they removed it.
I can't help thinking that if the 756s can't call at Ty Glas until the extension is built that might be part of the reason for just closing the station. But that's not the reason TfW are giving.
Of course if the extension requires a 10 month closure no matter when it's done, it means they don't have to explain why they didn't extend the platforms before the new trains came into service.
In the press release they say they are closing it to make the crossing safer, possibly barriers and lights, and to extend the platform. As we have seen elsewhere doing that while an active railway is running does take time. It's not the most road accessible place and I am guessing quite a bit of ground work needs doing before the platform can be added. The days of laying out a few sleepers a la ADNR have gone!
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