Northern - Fare investigation

[BeeChase]

Hi all, recently took a train to Manchester Picadilly to get through to Sheffield, not a route I normally would take.

I forgot to buy a ticket and when I arrived at Manchester I saw the opportunity to save a bit of money and so I purchased from a stop closer to Manchester than my own, in hindsight this was obviously both wrong and stupid. The staff at the exit asked how I had passed through the gates at the station my ticket said I had boarded at, and then took down my details.

I've now received the letter detailing their desire to open an investigation and to hear my explanation of events first, I gather from the forums that the best course of action Is honestly and regret so I had drafted the below:

"Hi, as Avanti trains back to London Euston were not running on this day I took a longer route over the weekend via Sheffield and Leeds to see some friends. I boarded at X and when I arrived at Manchester Picadilly I realised i had not bought a ticket, this was a genuine mistake as I have normally bought in advance a ticket to London Euston rather than a ticket to Manchester Picadilly. As I was spending a lot of money on train tickets I saw an opportunity to save some money and purchased a ticket from closer to Manchester Picadilly than my actual boarding location.

I realise this was wrong and I deeply regret the decision, once I had the opportunity I immediately bought the tickets for my onward journey to Sheffield, and ensured I'd paid in full and in advance for my journeys to Leeds and London Kings cross.

I accept I am wholly in the wrong in this instance and I'd like to settle out of court both the costs of the fare and Northern Rails administrative costs for the situation."

If someone could advise me on anything to add or remove I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks!

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi, welcome to the f orum.

Could you show us their letter please? It will help the forum pros to advise you.

I wouldn't start your letter with 'Hi'. This is a business letter so you need to start with Dear Sir or Madam or Dear Mr/Ms Smith if you know the name and finish it Yours faithfully or Yours sincerely respectively.

 

[ohnoes]

Another thing to bear in mind is that they also look at your ticket purchasing history so if you’ve done similar short ticketing - even on other routes- be prepared for them to raise it.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all, recently took a train to Manchester Picadilly to get through to Sheffield, not a route I normally would take.

I forgot to buy a ticket and when I arrived at Manchester I saw the opportunity to save a bit of money and so I purchased from a stop closer to Manchester than my own, in hindsight this was obviously both wrong and stupid. The staff at the exit asked how I had passed through the gates at the station my ticket said I had boarded at, and then took down my details.

I've now received the letter detailing their desire to open an investigation and to hear my explanation of events first, I gather from the forums that the best course of action Is honestly and regret so I had drafted the below:

"Hi, as Avanti trains back to London Euston were not running on this day I took a longer route over the weekend via Sheffield and Leeds to see some friends. I boarded at X and when I arrived at Manchester Picadilly I realised i had not bought a ticket, this was a genuine mistake as I have normally bought in advance a ticket to London Euston rather than a ticket to Manchester Picadilly. As I was spending a lot of money on train tickets I saw an opportunity to save some money and purchased a ticket from closer to Manchester Picadilly than my actual boarding location.

I realise this was wrong and I deeply regret the decision, once I had the opportunity I immediately bought the tickets for my onward journey to Sheffield, and ensured I'd paid in full and in advance for my journeys to Leeds and London Kings cross.

I accept I am wholly in the wrong in this instance and I'd like to settle out of court both the costs of the fare and Northern Rails administrative costs for the situation."

If someone could advise me on anything to add or remove I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks!

The immediate thing is that you say in your draft

this was a genuine mistake

But you say in the thread that you made a deliberate decision not to buy a ticket from your originating point

So you are lying to them in your reply - and you don't know what they know or what you may have said to staff on the day so avoid telling a lie now (esp in writing!)

It was a mistake to do what you did but it was not a mistake in the sense of you forgetting to buy the correct ticket if you see the difference - so amend that - as it risks creating the wrong impression and can be misinterpreted.

You could call what you did 'an error of judgement' perhaps instead

I'm sure they will offer to settle this out of court but best to get what you say as good as it can be.

 

[BeeChase]

The immediate thing is that you say in your draft

But you say in the thread that you made a deliberate decision not to buy a ticket from your originating point

So you are lying to them in your reply - and you don't know what they know or what you may have said to staff on the day so avoid telling a lie now (esp in writing!)

It was a mistake to do what you did but it was not a mistake in the sense of you forgetting to buy the correct ticket if you see the difference - so amend that - as it risks creating the wrong impression and can be misinterpreted.

You could call what you did 'an error of judgement' perhaps instead

I'm sure they will offer to settle this out of court but best to get what you say as good as it can be.

Thanks for having a look over, I did initially honestly forget to buy a ticket and then once I realised I'd needed to buy one I took the opportunity to short the fare.

I think you're right though, ultimately whether it was an initial honest mistake is redundant after I subsequently chose to short the fare, I'll reword it to remove that and instead mention that it was an error in judgement.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for having a look over, I did initially honestly forget to buy a ticket and then once I realised I'd needed to buy one I took the opportunity to short the fare.

I think you're right though, ultimately whether it was an initial honest mistake is redundant after I subsequently chose to short the fare, I'll reword it to remove that and instead mention that it was an error in judgement.

Yes, just adjust it - but I appreciate your point, but once you then decided to buy the wrong ticket you are straying into fare evasion territory pretty firmly and you want to avoid anything that digs that hole deeper as it were

as also stated above this is a formal process so any reply needs to be formal written style - this is technically the start of a pathway that could in theory end up in court so always err on the side of formality etc.

 

[BeeChase]

Another thing to bear in mind is that they also look at your ticket purchasing history so if you’ve done similar short ticketing - even on other routes- be prepared for them to raise it.

Thanks for the heads up, I'm not a particularly frequent northern customer. I also don't short normally, over this weekend I was spending so much on trains I think I just wanted to save a little (not justifying my actions!).

I don't know their process for looking through payment history and if they're likely to produce an accurate figure or inflate it based on estimates, and then to what extent I can dispute the other charges but not this one, I guess that becomes clear in due course.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

The letter needs some amendment. Cut the waffle about Avanti, your friends and soending lots on train tickets, as it's not relevent. Mention the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If Northern search your online ticeting account will they find further purchases of short distance tickets?

 

[BeeChase]

Welcome to the forum!

The letter needs some amendment. Cut the waffle about Avanti, your friends and soending lots on train tickets, as it's not relevent. Mention the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If Northern search your online ticeting account will they find further purchases of short distance tickets?

Hello, thanks for the advice. I was hoping the first part would illustrate to them that I don't regularly short fare however if they're going to audit my transactions regardless then you're correct. Im sure they can work that out themselves without my life story.

I've been through my account back to 2023 and I couldn't see any other examples of me purchasing short tickets, I can't say in writing that it's *never* happened, but if it has the instances would be few and far between.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2025 ==

Hi, welcome to the f orum.

Could you show us their letter please? It will help the forum pros to advise you.

I wouldn't start your letter with 'Hi'. This is a business letter so you need to start with Dear Sir or Madam or Dear Mr/Ms Smith if you know the name and finish it Yours faithfully or Yours sincerely respectively.

I don't currently have the letter to hand but It struck me as a fairly standard letter they would issue in these circumstances.

They essentially said that before proceeding with an investigation they would allow me to provide an explanation.

I think they gave an email address in addition to a form on their letter which I could complete. I'm not sure whether it would be better to send via email or post.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2025 ==

Yes, just adjust it - but I appreciate your point, but once you then decided to buy the wrong ticket you are straying into fare evasion territory pretty firmly and you want to avoid anything that digs that hole deeper as it were

as also stated above this is a formal process so any reply needs to be formal written style - this is technically the start of a pathway that could in theory end up in court so always err on the side of formality etc.

Thanks, I'll adjust accordingly.

I believe the letter gave the opportunity to respond by email or by post. Do you have any knowledge of which method is preferred?

 

[Hadders]

It doesn't matter whether you use email or post. The important thing is to make sure you send a reply before the deadline.

 

[WesternLancer]

It doesn't matter whether you use email or post. The important thing is to make sure you send a reply before the deadline.

Further to this, if you opt for post (or use both methods) be sure to pay for tracked postage from a post office so you know and can prove it was delivered should you ever need to be able to do so