Thoughts on the Trump presidency

[jon0844]

This is going to prove interesting in the coming days/months because Trump is old, Elon has loads of money and X... so will Republicans sit on the fence but secretly seek to cosy up to Elon in the future to try and secure funding and positive support for their campaigns?

Trump could of course re-open all the investigations into Elon's businesses, so I think it's going to get very messy - and entertaining!

 

[Lloyds siding]

Get the popcorn out! (again)

I've been keeping some popcorn for this moment!

 

[nlogax]

Ways this could go,

.. ISS could again be without a US-based crew shuttle and supply craft if Musk / SpaceX retires the Dragon capsule
.. Trump could find himself on the wrong end of an impeachment process with actual teeth if Musk proves his claim of Trump’s involvement in the Epstein case
.. Musk could be deported back to South Africa if Steve Bannon’s ask of Trump to investigate Musk’s immigration status is granted
.. The Democrats could find themselves with an unlikely ally against the GOP

The real problem here is the M&Ms that I like to put in my salty popcorn. They’re so moreish and I have a feeling there’ll be a lot of popcorn to be had over the next few weeks.

 

[The Ham]

Ways this could go,

.. ISS could again be without a US-based crew shuttle and supply craft if Musk / SpaceX retires the Dragon capsule
.. Trump could find himself on the wrong end of an impeachment process with actual teeth if Musk proves his claim of Trump’s involvement in the Epstein case
.. Musk could be deported back to South Africa if Steve Bannon’s ask of Trump to investigate Musk’s immigration status is granted
.. The Democrats could find themselves with an unlikely ally against the GOP

The real problem here is the M&Ms that I like to put in my salty popcorn. They’re so moreish and I have a feeling there’ll be a lot of popcorn to be had over the next few weeks.

To add to that, the thought I've just had; Not all of those are mutually exclusive...

 

[DarloRich]

The use of troops in LA is exactly what I feared would happen with Trump. He is acting beyond his constitutional authority. There is no rebellion happening in California, despite what Trump makes out.

 

[nw1]

The use of troops in LA is exactly what I feared would happen with Trump. He is acting beyond his constitutional authority. There is no rebellion happening in California, despite what Trump makes out.

Sounds like Trump is wanting to deport people who might technically be "illegals" but have lived in the USA for a long time.
It's small wonder that people are upset, and the response is completely disproportionate.
Any sane politician would take a "live and let live" attitude to long term "illegals". They're settled in LA, let them stay, for heaven's sake.

 

[Tetchytyke]

He is acting beyond his constitutional authority.

And deliberately so. Always pushing the line just that bit further, safe in the knowledge that the politicised judiciary will support him 100%.

I know right wingers get upset if we compare the current Republican party to a certain prominent German political party from the 1930s, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

[najaB]

Sounds like Trump is wanting to deport people who might technically be "illegals" but have lived in the USA for a long time.

From what I've heard, it's not Trump driving this - it's Steven Miller. He apparently was screaming at ICE leadership asking why they were only going after criminals - he believes that they should remove all 11 million undocumented immigrants currently in the USA, rather than focusing on the roughly 700,000 who have records for committing violent crimes.

 

[DarloRich]

I also read a democratic senator was arrested for asking the homeland security minister questions in an unapproved style at a press conference!

Disgraceful. Now, where have we seen this sort of thing before.........

 

[SHD]

Trump/Miller want their own Kent State massacre, and they are betting on the fact that public opinion will be on the side that holds guns rather than on the side that receives bullets.

 

[nw1]

Trump/Miller want their own Kent State massacre, and they are betting on the fact that public opinion will be on the side that holds guns rather than on the side that receives bullets.

An unwise bet, I suspect. From what I gather it's only the MAGA fundamentalists that unreservedly support him now. The middle people who took a bet on Trump II being no worse than Trump I will surely be swinging against him now.
And if they do something silly, they will lose further support.

As for Miller he seems yet another of those anti-immigration fanatics who are partly descended from immigrants in recent history (more recent than the original European immigration to the US). Complete hypocrite.

 

[Strathclyder]

The use of troops in LA is exactly what I feared would happen with Trump. He is acting beyond his constitutional authority. There is no rebellion happening in California, despite what Trump makes out.

A manufactured crisis to justify, in their own twisted minds, invoking the Insurrection Act and further tighten his grip on power. Straight out the authoritarian/fascist playbook, every part of it deliberately and intentionally planned.

I know some will froth and splutter in indignant rage over me invoking the Nazis when talking about what MAGA/the Republican Party have been doing here and the latter has mutated into, but to them I say: get over yourselves. What else can and should we call this other than fascism? What happened to Senator Padilla - and the Mayor of Newark, lest we forget - should remove any and all doubt about this. And don't let yourself get comfortable, this is just the beginning.

Personally, I think it's well past time we stop skirting around this, playing these infuriatingly stupid games over the right words and definitions to use when it comes to Trump when it's crystal-bloody-clear what this is, what he is and what he has been doing. Call a spade a spade for god sakes.

I'm often not this blunt or direct on here, but watching the events unfold over the past week or so has really gotten under my skin, as it should any decent human being. That and Stephen Miller just straight up p***es me off on a visceral level; out of all the Trump ghouls he is easily one of the worst.

 

[Gloster]

Just how much of all this is actually Trump? I know that he is of the right, even by US standards, but does he have any deep political philosophy, neo-fascist or other? To my eyes he is a greedy, vain, unscrupulous and vindictive egotist, but he is in it for the grift and for the sense of power, which equates with riches to him. Most of what he does, except for the blatant cash grabbing, is being suggested to him by advisers who are much nastier. They know that he can be ‘persuaded’ of the advantages (to him) of certain actions and once he has started things off his ego won’t allow him to step back, although he may well lose interest and leave everything to others. This cabal has different aims, mostly related to money or religious fundamentalism, but they can get on with their dirty deeds while Trump takes the criticism, which they turn to their advantage in the next suggestion that they feed him.

 

[edwin_m]

Apparently Trump went to see Les Mis and was unable to answer when asked if he identified with Valjean or Javert. I'm thinking more Thenardier myself.

 

[nw1]

Just how much of all this is actually Trump? I know that he is of the right, even by US standards, but does he have any deep political philosophy, neo-fascist or other? To my eyes he is a greedy, vain, unscrupulous and vindictive egotist, but he is in it for the grift and for the sense of power, which equates with riches to him. Most of what he does, except for the blatant cash grabbing, is being suggested to him by advisers who are much nastier. They know that he can be ‘persuaded’ of the advantages (to him) of certain actions and once he has started things off his ego won’t allow him to step back, although he may well lose interest and leave everything to others. This cabal has different aims, mostly related to money or religious fundamentalism, but they can get on with their dirty deeds while Trump takes the criticism, which they turn to their advantage in the next suggestion that they feed him.

Could well be true, you could say Trump is amoral rather than immoral.

But I will say that there is pure, unadulterated evil amongst sections of the American right. The treatment of Alex Padilla and Ras Baraka is indeed dangerously close to fascism. ICE in particular comes across as an extremely unpleasant and authoritarian organisation.

We should not be displaying positive prejudice towards the American right just because they come from a (normally) friendly country and speak English. It's time to see these people for who they are.

 

[Harpo]

It's time to see these people for who they are.

…..and be very deeply worried about their imitators on these shores.

 

[dcbwhaley]

Sounds like Trump is wanting to deport people who might technically be "illegals" but have lived in the USA for a long time.
It's small wonder that people are upset, and the response is completely disproportionate.
Any sane politician would take a "live and let live" attitude to long term "illegals". They're settled in LA, let them stay, for heaven's sake.

Their chidren ,born in the USA, are of course legal citizens under the 14th. Which puts the parents in a dillema.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The middle people who took a bet on Trump II being no worse than Trump I will surely be swinging against him now.

I know you know this, but the idea that they will get an opportunity to change their mind at the ballot box in four years is...naive.

 

[DarloRich]

A manufactured crisis to justify, in their own twisted minds, invoking the Insurrection Act and further tighten his grip on power. Straight out the authoritarian/fascist playbook, every part of it deliberately and intentionally planned.

We all know when there WAS an attempted insurection. It didn't happen in California!

 

[SHD]

An unwise bet, I suspect. From what I gather it's only the MAGA fundamentalists that unreservedly support him now. The middle people who took a bet on Trump II being no worse than Trump I will surely be swinging against him now.
And if they do something silly, they will lose further support.

As for Miller he seems yet another of those anti-immigration fanatics who are partly descended from immigrants in recent history (more recent than the original European immigration to the US). Complete hypocrite.

Unfortunately I wouldn’t be so sure that the bet is unwise. Prolonging the Kent State analogy, while the murders (*) had a strong impact on the youth and the left at large, and on intellectual and cultural circles, they did not hamper Nixon politically. After all he was very comfortably re-elected in 1972. I suspect that a good many electors thought that these student-hippies with strong body odour got what they deserved. And the grave social unrest that the USA experienced during the 1960s was a factor in Nixon’s 1969 victory (as well as an anti-civil rights backslash).

If the anti-ICE protests turn ugly, I fear that the petty spirit of the Trump elector will show again.

I know I’m dark and cynical, but these are the times we are dealing with.


(*) I know that they have never been characterised as such in court but I’ll call them for what they were

 

[Strathclyder]

We all know when there WAS an attempted insurection. It didn't happen in California!

Exactly. I didn't bring up January 6th as I thought that there was too obvious a throughline. Clearly I was wrong.

 

[najaB]

But I will say that there is pure, unadulterated evil amongst sections of the American right. The treatment of Alex Padilla and Ras Baraka is indeed dangerously close to fascism. ICE in particular comes across as an extremely unpleasant and authoritarian organisation.

It's worth remembering that ICE is only 22 years old - it was a Bush-era invention of the post September 11 environment. It really should be abolished and the enforcement of laws be in the hands of law enforcement, be it local, state or federal where it is supposed to be.

 

[JamesT]

It's worth remembering that ICE is only 22 years old - it was a Bush-era invention of the post September 11 environment. It really should be abolished and the enforcement of laws be in the hands of law enforcement, be it local, state or federal where it is supposed to be.

Though for the most part ICE is merely shifting the functions that were previously in United States Immigration and Naturalization Service. It is a federal law enforcement agency, changing the department it sits under makes no difference to the laws it's enforcing or the people doing the job.

 

[DarloRich]

Exactly. I didn't bring up January 6th as I thought that there was too obvious a throughline. Clearly I was wrong.

I thought it best to state the obvious!

 

[Strathclyder]

I thought it best to state the obvious!

Always a good thing to do when in even the slightest bit of doubt!

 

[najaB]

Though for the most part ICE is merely shifting the functions that were previously in United States Immigration and Naturalization Service. It is a federal law enforcement agency, changing the department it sits under makes no difference to the laws it's enforcing or the people doing the job.

In practice it does make a huge difference. One of the main reasons that ICE was created was to 'streamline' the enforcement functions of the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) and Customs and Border Protection (CPB), under the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). In practice, the DHS has done very little to actually make the USA more secure and the streamlining represents an huge overreach of government powers. ICE has repeatedly violated the 4th Amendment and often uses administrative warrants to enter private premises where they should have sought a judicial warrant. They are also much less accountable than the departments which preceded them - just look at how masked, hooded men in black SUVs are snatching people off the street without displaying any identification.

 

[JamesT]

In practice it does make a huge difference. One of the main reasons that ICE was created was to 'streamline' the enforcement functions of INS and CBP, under the Department of Homeland Security. In practice, the DHS has done very little to actually make the USA more secure and the streamlining represents an huge overreach of government powers. ICE has repeatedly violated the 4th Amendment and often uses administrative warrants to enter private premises where they should have sought a judicial warrant. They are also much less accountable than the departments which preceded them - just look at how masked, hooded men in black SUVs are snatching people off the street without displaying any identification.

None of this is new or unique to ICE. The use of administrative warrants by INS was the subject of a Supreme Court decision Abel v. USA, in 1960.

 

[najaB]

None of this is new or unique to ICE.

In terms of act, no. But in terms of condition, ICE is significantly more aggressive and militaristic than INS was and the DHS generally is much less accountable than its predecessor agencies.

And what's more, despite the massive budget for the TSA (some $10B/year) there is zero evidence that they have stopped a single attack on the USA, and roughly the same amount spent on ICE has resulted in almost no meaningful change in the undocumented immigrant population in the USA.

 

[Yew]

In terms of act, no. But in terms of condition, ICE is significantly more aggressive and militaristic than INS was and the DHS generally is much less accountable than its predecessor agencies.

I'm unsure if it is the organisation itself, or simply Trump being much more liberal with (mis)using executive orders.


I would suggest that in future, an amendment to either limit or provide more congressional checks and balance on the executive power of the president may be a useful thing for the US to consider.

 

[najaB]

I'm unsure if it is the organisation itself, or simply Trump being much more liberal with (mis)using executive orders.

A bit of both, really. The whole formation of DHS was a knee-jerk reaction to the September 11th attacks and much like other measures taken at the time (e.g. the Patriot Act) could be held up as a perfect example of Benjamin Franklyn's famous "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

There is very little evidence that the USA is any more secure thanks to the DHS, Patriot Act, enhanced activity by the National Security Agency (NSA), but it's definitely less free. Even more so under the current administration.