Existing N gauge loco designs that deserve a second chance with retooling

[Trainlog]

Since starting N gauge a couple of years ago now, I have enjoyed the scale and prefer it to OO gauge for the reason of how much less space it takes up. However, when considering locos, I have felt it's a case of do your homework with some of the classes of locos as to how well they run, especially in the case of steam ones. Most Graham Farish locos have run well in my experience, though I have avoided Dapol due to how bad some of the steam locos run from watching reviews, with the exception of the A1X Terrier.

Its unfortunate as some locos such as the SR V 'Schools' class, Q1 Spam cams, and GWR 28xx look good cosmetically in N gauge but fall apart due to the way Dapol's tender drive mechanism is set out.

My question is, what existing N gauge loco designs do you think deserve a second chance at retooling?

 

[Cowley]

Since starting N gauge a couple of years ago now, I have enjoyed the scale and prefer it to OO gauge for the reason of how much less space it takes up. However, when considering locos, I have felt it's a case of do your homework with some of the classes of locos as to how well they run, especially in the case of steam ones. Most Graham Farish locos have run well in my experience, though I have avoided Dapol due to how bad some of the steam locos run from watching reviews, with the exception of the A1X Terrier.

Its unfortunate as some locos such as the SR V 'Schools' class, Q1 Spam cams, and GWR 28xx look good cosmetically in N gauge but fall apart due to the way Dapol's tender drive mechanism is set out.

My question is, what existing N gauge loco designs do you think deserve a second chance at retooling?

I think definitely the ones you’ve mentioned, along with the GWR 14xx and in diesel terms, an updated class 25 would be really nice.

 

[devon_belle]

I think a lot of the old Farish toolings could do with a major update. In particular, the King, Crab, Princess would be my first choices.

I have not experienced problems with my 3 SR Schools, nor my SR Q1 (provided I keep it on large-radius curves) or GWR 28xx. The GWR 14xx runs fine but can't cope with curved points in my case. The one most in need of attention by Dapol is the GWR Hall in my case; both examples I own suffer lurching and hunting due to the tender drive. By comparison, my 5 A4s work nearly flawlessly using similar technology. With Dapol, it seems that quality control is not their strong suit and whether or not a given engine works well is wholly down to which one you happen to pick off the shelf!

I agree that tender drive leads to inferior running compared to Farish, so I am glad they're finally moving away from it.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Not strictly speaking locomotives, but I would like to see retoolings of a lot of the old Graham Farish units and fixed formation sets.

Believe the Turbostar tooling dates from 2005 and it has painted headlights and destination boards, together with no DCC compatibility, which was already fairly outdated for the time. Even more cheeky when they released a few variations between 2016-2018 for full price with no changes to the tooling.

Would love to see an updated 225 set too. Almost bought a GNER example before I remembered it didn't have headlights.

 

[Trainlog]

I think a lot of the old Farish toolings could do with a major update. In particular, the King, Crab, Princess would be my first choices.

I have not experienced problems with my 3 SR Schools, nor my SR Q1 (provided I keep it on large-radius curves) or GWR 28xx. The GWR 14xx runs fine but can't cope with curved points in my case. The one most in need of attention by Dapol is the GWR Hall in my case; both examples I own suffer lurching and hunting due to the tender drive. By comparison, my 5 A4s work nearly flawlessly using similar technology. With Dapol, it seems that quality control is not their strong suit and whether or not a given engine works well is wholly down to which one you happen to pick off the shelf!

I agree that tender drive leads to inferior running compared to Farish, so I am glad they're finally moving away from it.

In terms of the Farish ones, yes, I do find it strange how these locos haven't been considered yet. I appreciate this scale is more niche in comparison to OO gauge, but it's the fact that Dapol hasn't tackled these locos recently either, so it's an open goal for Graham Farish if they consider retooling the King and Princess class locos.

I'm glad to hear that the vast majority of your Dapol locos are good runners. Perhaps if I get one second-hand at a model railway show and ask about its running quality, I might consider getting a SR Schools class loco or Q1.

With the last point, it's certainly interesting to see how the new Dapol locos will turn out (Battle of Britain/West country, Manor, Ivatt 2mt, and J72). The features promised on these locos are reassuring, especially the inclusion of a flywheel, coreless motor, and pickups on driving wheels and tenders (if the loco has one).

 

[devon_belle]

Another thing which puzzles me is the anti pre-1948 decisions by Farish, such as only making a series 3 streamlined SR Merchant Navy, only making the BR era dutchess, only producing Hawksworth GWR auto trailer. I'm sure the list goes on.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not saying there's a conspiracy... Farish produce lots of lovely era 2 and era 3 models. It just seems strange to choose prototypes which can only cater for BR/postwar audiences.

A big surprise to me has been Revolution Trains announcing made-to-order Pullman sets. I hope these sell well, despite the price, and encourage more steam era forays by that manufacturer. The Class 59 of theirs which I own is an impeccable model.

I believe there are so many as-yet unturned stones which would fill niches in the N gauge market. We have a huge lack of secondary/suburban stock, particular for the big four. We lack carriages and wagons for most pre-grouping companies which have been represented with engines. The SE&CR has been well-treated, with two engines, a coach set, and a lot of wagons. Similar treatment of, say, the MR would be most welcome. Wisdom from the industry says pre-grouping and BR blue diesels are the fastest-growing areas. Sorry for the rambling!

With the last point, it's certainly interesting to see how the new Dapol locos will turn out (Battle of Britain/West country, Manor, Ivatt 2mt, and J72). The features promised on these locos are reassuring, especially the inclusion of a flywheel, coreless motor, and pickups on driving wheels and tenders (if the loco has one)

I'm optimistic. Dapol must be too, as they've chosen some fairly big ticket engines which will be very popular (and controversial if they don't turn out good). I think we still have some time before we find out, despite models being due Q3 2025!

 

[Trainlog]

I believe there are so many as-yet unturned stones which would fill niches in the N gauge market. We have a huge lack of secondary/suburban stock, particular for the big four. We lack carriages and wagons for most pre-grouping companies which have been represented with engines. The SE&CR has been well-treated, with two engines, a coach set, and a lot of wagons. Similar treatment of, say, the MR would be most welcome. Wisdom from the industry says pre-grouping and BR blue diesels are the fastest-growing areas. Sorry for the rambling!

Basically half my posts on here are rambling , I wouldn't worry about it.

I couldn't agree more. I have tried to complete a rake of Caledonian railway coaches, but because of how rare they are, it's been hard to do. I could see there being potential for manufacturers to start exploring this, the Dapol terriers are a great stepping stone to introduce pre-grouping 4-wheeled coaches in N gauge, especially for the IOW or Colonel Stephens modellers.

For the SECR, it would be nice that in order to test the waters for more pre-grouping stuff, that Dapol could look into developing the D class into N gauge and maybe a H class would be nice also. But going back to the title of the thread, a newly-tooled Graham Farish Midland compound train pack with a rake of MR coaches would be very welcome to the scale especially for the pre grouping modellers.

 

[Trainlog]

The one most in need of attention by Dapol is the GWR Hall in my case; both examples I own suffer lurching and hunting due to the tender drive.

I think you have unintentionally gotten your wish granted today, albeit from Graham Farish instead .

Fortunately, Rails of Sheffield is a bit cheaper for this model.

Bachmann Announces GWR Hall and Modified Hall N Gauge Models

Bachmann Europe has announced new additions to the Graham Farish range with the addition of GWR Hall and Modified Hall Class locomotives.

www.railadvent.co.uk

Graham Farish Announce New 'Hall' Class Locomotives

In a special announcement before this weekends The International N Gauge Show (TINGS) Bachmann Europe have revealed all new tooling GWR 49XX 'Hall' Class and GWR 6959 'Modified Hall' Class locomotives, which can be pre ordered from Rails now! Four versions announced as part of this range GWR...

railsofsheffield.com

 

[devon_belle]

I think you have unintentionally gotten your wish granted today, albeit from Graham Farish instead .

Fortunately, Rails of Sheffield is a bit cheaper for this model.

Bachmann Announces GWR Hall and Modified Hall N Gauge Models

Bachmann Europe has announced new additions to the Graham Farish range with the addition of GWR Hall and Modified Hall Class locomotives.

www.railadvent.co.uk

Graham Farish Announce New 'Hall' Class Locomotives

In a special announcement before this weekends The International N Gauge Show (TINGS) Bachmann Europe have revealed all new tooling GWR 49XX 'Hall' Class and GWR 6959 'Modified Hall' Class locomotives, which can be pre ordered from Rails now! Four versions announced as part of this range GWR...

railsofsheffield.com

What a treat! I will be waiting excitedly for a pre-1948 livery (the mod hall is in pre-1934 livery, despite being built in the 40s).

 

[Trainlog]

What a treat! I will be waiting excitedly for a pre-1948 livery (the mod hall is in pre-1934 livery, despite being built in the 40s).

It was certainly a welcome announcement last week when I saw it, and I am sure they will eventually do one in the pre-1948 livery, especially as they did at one point a Royal Scot loco in the 1946 livery. A lot of investment went into the tooling, so it's a case of wait and see, I reckon.

For me, the reintroduction of the Castle class locos is what has piqued my interest from Graham Farish.

 

[devon_belle]

It was certainly a welcome announcement last week when I saw it, and I am sure they will eventually do one in the pre-1948 livery, especially as they did at one point a Royal Scot loco in the 1946 livery. A lot of investment went into the tooling, so it's a case of wait and see, I reckon.

In their announcement, Bachmann heavily implied that this is the first batch of several. I can see why they would cover the BR/preserved liveries first. I will wait patiently!

For me, the reintroduction of the Castle class locos is what has piqued my interest from Graham Farish.

I had been saying for a couple of years how obvious a re-run of those would be. Luckily they now agree. I will be picking up a Hawksworth liveried one (G crest W) which was only available with OHLE stickers from a set previously. This will complement my shirtbutton one.

I would like to see a re-run of the Merchant Navies and Dutchesses, although sadly they only did a series 3 Merchant Navy, so it can't be painted into pre-1948 liveries without modifying the cylinder cowling etc.

 

[Trainlog]

In their announcement, Bachmann heavily implied that this is the first batch of several. I can see why they would cover the BR/preserved liveries first. I will wait patiently!

I had been saying for a couple of years how obvious a re-run of those would be. Luckily they now agree. I will be picking up a Hawksworth liveried one (G crest W) which was only available with OHLE stickers from a set previously. This will complement my shirtbutton one.

I would like to see a re-run of the Merchant Navies and Dutchesses, although sadly they only did a series 3 Merchant Navy, so it can't be painted into pre-1948 liveries without modifying the cylinder cowling etc.

I can get behind this. Fortunately, I managed to pick up a Graham Farish Duchess for £50 at Penzance model shop back in July and its a brilliant runner! It might be the older edition, but coupled up with some maroon Mk1s, it still looked the part.

Personally, the only thing that would make me consider getting another N gauge Duchess would be if Graham Farish produced the Streamlined editions and included the 2010s style artwork on the box with the Coronation Scot train pack.

As for the Merchant Navy part, it could be worth their time to reintroduce a new batch of those locos. When the Revolution trains K type Pullman coaches are released, a Southern Railway Merchant Navy could be feasibly done to complement them as the demand for secondhand Merchant Navy locos, both unrebuilt and rebuilt, would certainly exist.

 

[4SubAsociation]

Ok. Got a suggestion

BR 4CEP - did not get seem to get a big run. Also it was a un-refurbished and the blue grey ones go for strong money.

Whether it means more emus could be tooled from this one i do not know.

 

[devon_belle]

Ok. Got a suggestion

BR 4CEP - did not get seem to get a big run. Also it was a un-refurbished and the blue grey ones go for strong money.

Whether it means more emus could be tooled from this one i do not know.

Good point – the slammers are woefully neglected in N gauge, despite BR Blue being the largest market share (apparently). Another run of the pre-refurb BR Blue and Green ones would make sense, and if they could do a refurbished one (or another design) then I think there would be a strong market for NSE. Personally, I'd like to see a stagecoach SWT one, or a Connex one, but those are a little less likely I imagine.

The 4CEPs were in the bargain bin going for £100ish before they sold out. Now they're worth a lot. Same story with the 350s I seem to recall.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==

I can get behind this. Fortunately, I managed to pick up a Graham Farish Duchess for £50 at Penzance model shop back in July and its a brilliant runner! It might be the older edition, but coupled up with some maroon Mk1s, it still looked the part.

Personally, the only thing that would make me consider getting another N gauge Duchess would be if Graham Farish produced the Streamlined editions and included the 2010s style artwork on the box with the Coronation Scot train pack.

I have an old Farish one, but I've been spoiled by modern toolings to the extent that I can't really run it as it just stands out as being much more basic.

I would absolutely buy a streamlined one, especially if they did the coaches. I do wonder whether such a niche thing would be feasible in N gauge, but they've done some whacky engines before. An LMS era non-streamlined version would definitely attract my attention. I'm not familiar enough with the prototype to know why they could not do LMS liveries on the newer tooling they have.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==

As for the Merchant Navy part, it could be worth their time to reintroduce a new batch of those locos. When the Revolution trains K type Pullman coaches are released, a Southern Railway Merchant Navy could be feasibly done to complement them as the demand for secondhand Merchant Navy locos, both unrebuilt and rebuilt, would certainly exist.

Agree! The revolution trains pullmans will be very useful. If Farish could manufacture a Series 1 Merchant Navy (with smoke deflectors) they could easily do SR Black, SR Malachite, BR Malachite, BR Blue, and BR Green. I do think N Gauge is crying out for a new tooling rebuilt Merchant Navy, which would be suitable for BR fans and throughout preservation up to the modern era. I'm confident it'll happen one day...

 

[Trainlog]

I would absolutely buy a streamlined one, especially if they did the coaches. I do wonder whether such a niche thing would be feasible in N gauge, but they've done some whacky engines before.

I could definitely see the demand for it, as you said stranger prototypes have come and gone in N gauge, but yet such an icon of steam's golden age is yet to be available in ready-to-run form. They already have the Stanier coaches for it, so it's only the locomotive that would warrant a new tooling to bring it to fruition.

Ok. Got a suggestion

BR 4CEP - did not get seem to get a big run. Also it was a un-refurbished and the blue grey ones go for strong money.

Whether it means more emus could be tooled from this one i do not know.

Good point – the slammers are woefully neglected in N gauge, despite BR Blue being the largest market share (apparently). Another run of the pre-refurb BR Blue and Green ones would make sense, and if they could do a refurbished one (or another design) then I think there would be a strong market for NSE. Personally, I'd like to see a stagecoach SWT one, or a Connex one, but those are a little less likely I imagine.

The 4CEPs were in the bargain bin going for £100ish before they sold out. Now they're worth a lot. Same story with the 350s I seem to recall.

From the way both of you have put it, it seems to be something that felt 'ahead of its time in terms of demand'.

I could definitely see that the next couple of years feel like the right time to re-release such sets. Nostalgia and interest in the NSE era are definitely strong currently, and the Blue and Green sets will still be popular additions if a re-release happens.

As for the last part on the Merchant Navy. If the Unrebuilt did a re-release, I would love a tie-in with the General Steam Navigation trust as that is in the top 5 newbuilds I would love to see built and not abandoned. A Southern one with a Southern plate on its smokebox would be excellent if it happened.

 

[E27007]

Two models,1) the Farish Class 24, the cab is too wide and lacks the prototype tapering-in of the cab sides, same error in the 4mm version too, the roof radius is compromised, "the face" of the loco is not right and spoils the appearance of a very nice model,
2) The class 25/3 , the final development of the BR Sulzer type 2, (no end doors) was a very poor GF model and several years ago (if my memory is sound) Bachmann-Farish announced a retool, the plans seem to have has disappeared, Bachmann have the chassis , their modern classes 24 and 25/2. Any news from Bachmann for a 25/3?

 

[Trainlog]

Two models,1) the Farish Class 24, the cab is too wide and lacks the prototype tapering-in of the cab sides, same error in the 4mm version too, the roof radius is compromised, "the face" of the loco is not right and spoils the appearance of a very nice model,
2) The class 25/3 , the final development of the BR Sulzer type 2, (no end doors) was a very poor GF model and several years ago (if my memory is sound) Bachmann-Farish announced a retool, the plans seem to have has disappeared, Bachmann have the chassis , their modern classes 24 and 25/2. Any news from Bachmann for a 25/3?

That does seem rather embarrassing from Bachmann/Graham Farish to do that for the Class 24 in both N and OO gauge, especially when so much has gone into promoting some of their latest N gauge sets, such as the 'Suburban Sulzer', including a Class 24.I think that if Graham Farish has abandoned the plans for a retool, then perhaps Rapido might be worth messaging to explore taking on such a project.

The Class 44 Rapido, which has been recently released in N gauge, looks interesting, and I hope we see them develop more models in this scale soon. Perhaps the Class 24 could be the next project for them in N gauge?

Talking of Graham Farish, I didn't know at one point they made a GER S56 (LNER J69) in N gauge. It's a rather primitive model and would definitely deserve a second chance with retooling.