Experiences of service recovery (or lack of) on GTR Great Northern

[sharpener]

Looks like it was helped a bit by the signaller holding onto sending 2H57 Cambridge North to Liverpool Street and instead giving 1T50 priority - usually 2H57 seems to get priority as soon as 1T50 is more than a minute or so late, which makes 1T50 lose another 3-4 minutes.

Timetable could hardly have been worse from the POV of one or other getting delayed. At least common sense prevailed on that occasion and the resulting delay to 2H57 was trivial.

 

[MikeWM]

Timetable could hardly have been worse from the POV of one or other getting delayed. At least common sense prevailed on that occasion and the resulting delay to 2H57 was trivial.

Yes - which in my experience is very rare, the signaller usually sends 2H57 out if there is any chance 1T50 will delay it. Which causes an even longer delay to 1T50 than before the stop boards at CMB were moved halfway to Waterbeach, as 2H57 now takes considerably longer to get clear of the platform at CMB.

I'm not sure why 2H57 departs off-pattern at 1842 rater than 1843 anyway (and then gets to sit at Audley End for 3 minutes). I'm guessing it is due to the off-pattern Thameslink 1852 off Cambridge to Brighton, but for why *that* is off-pattern (ie. at 1852 rather than 1853) I don't see any obvious explanation.

 

[Class 170101]

Yes - which in my experience is very rare, the signaller usually sends 2H57 out if there is any chance 1T50 will delay it. Which causes an even longer delay to 1T50 than before the stop boards at CMB were moved halfway to Waterbeach, as 2H57 now takes considerably longer to get clear of the platform at CMB.

I'm not sure why 2H57 departs off-pattern at 1842 rater than 1843 anyway (and then gets to sit at Audley End for 3 minutes). I'm guessing it is due to the off-pattern Thameslink 1852 off Cambridge to Brighton, but for why *that* is off-pattern (ie. at 1852 rather than 1853) I don't see any obvious explanation.

Parallel move at Shepreth Branch Jn between 1N67 and 2H57 towards West Anglia 18:51 to 18:53 and then between 9S57 and 2C59 heading towards Hitchin and 1T52 heading from Hitchin across Shepreth Branch Jn between 18:56 and 19:00

 

[sharpener]

Parallel move at Shepreth Branch Jn between 1N67 and 2H57 towards West Anglia 18:51 to 18:53 and then between 9S57 and 2C59 heading towards Hitchin and 1T52 heading from Hitchin across Shepreth Branch Jn between 18:56 and 19:00

Not sure why this is an issue. Up West Anglia and Down GN trains are not the problem, it's the other two paths through the jn that cause the conflicts.

 

[43074]

Parallel move at Shepreth Branch Jn between 1N67 and 2H57 towards West Anglia 18:51 to 18:53 and then between 9S57 and 2C59 heading towards Hitchin and 1T52 heading from Hitchin across Shepreth Branch Jn between 18:56 and 19:00

That doesn't explain why 9S57 is off pattern at all as it could still run 1 minute later from Cambridge and not break the junction working at Shepreth, it would just go over at 18/57 30s after 1T52 comes up from Royston and 3 mins ahead of 2C59.

 

[choochoochoo]

Going off slightly off topic, why did they make Shepreth Branch junction speed 30mph in the down royston direction but 50mph in the up royston direction when they redesigned the junction ? Why was 50mph not done in both directions.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Going off slightly off topic, why did they make Shepreth Branch junction speed 30mph in the down royston direction but 50mph in the up royston direction when they redesigned the junction ? Why was 50mph not done in both directions.

I think it will be after the commissioning of Cambridge resignalling phase 2 at Christmas

 

[Class 170101]

Not sure why this is an issue. Up West Anglia and Down GN trains are not the problem, it's the other two paths through the jn that cause the conflicts.

That doesn't explain why 9S57 is off pattern at all as it could still run 1 minute later from Cambridge and not break the junction working at Shepreth, it would just go over at 18/57 30s after 1T52 comes up from Royston and 3 mins ahead of 2C59.

1N67 uses Platform 8 at Cambridge thats needs a four minute junction margin at Cambridge with 9S57 (platform 1) 18:52 to 18:56

 

[sharpener]

1N67 uses Platform 8 at Cambridge thats needs a four minute junction margin at Cambridge with 9S57 (platform 1) 18:52 to 18:56

Seems an awkward set of moves.

I thought Birmingham trains normally use P4 and Brighton trains P7/8, which is a much better arrangement not involving both trains crossing each other and over virtually the whole layout at CBG, and in the case of 1N67 having to cross back again as well.

But a busy time of day and even now none too many platforms. Not helped by 2H46 spending 12 mins occupying P7 before going off to the sidings, ?driver change or something?

 

[Class 170101]

Seems an awkward set of moves.

I thought Birmingham trains normally use P4 and Brighton trains P7/8, which is a much better arrangement not involving both trains crossing each other and over virtually the whole layout at CBG, and in the case of 1N67 having to cross back again as well.

1N67 cannot use Platform 4 due to 2K89 arriving in Platform 5 the overlap on Platform 4 extends over the points at the Country End of Cambridge. Insufficient gap behind 1N67 with 1T52 behind it (arrive 19:01 to split) regardless of 1T52 using Platforms 1 or 4. If 1N67 went 18:58 might work but it would be off pattern from Cambridge, so it uses Platform 8.

But a busy time of day and even now none too many platforms. Not helped by 2H46 spending 12 mins occupying P7 before going off to the sidings, ?driver change or something?

2H46 has to wait for 5T50 (split from 1T50) to enter sidings at Cambridge Sidings North. It may be able to go at 18:45 depending on how many minutes are needed between each arrival. 5T50 is 18:50 arrival at Cambridge Sidings North so maybe best to wait 12 minutes for clear run to sidings and to check train is empty before sending it to sidings.

 

[sharpener]

1N67 cannot use Platform 4 due to 2K89 arriving in Platform 5 the overlap on Platform 4 extends over the points at the Country End of Cambridge.

Didn't realise, that would seem to be a significant operational limitation!

 

[Intercity_225]

Chaos this afternoon towards Peterborough due to damage to the overhead wires. 1A36 looks to be the culprit, currently standing at St Neots. As an example, 9J44 was already 45 mins late leaving Horsham for whatever reason, skip stopped Littlehaven, Ifield, Crawley, Horley and took the Quarry Line, meaning that by Finsbury Park it was half an hour late. It is now skip stopping from Finsbury - Peterborough, which is completely pointless considering the disruption at the moment.

Edit: A BLOK is now in place between Biggleswade & St Neots on the UF.

 

[milooo]

Chaos this afternoon towards Peterborough due to damage to the overhead wires. 1A36 looks to be the culprit, currently standing at St Neots. As an example, 9J44 was already 45 mins late leaving Horsham for whatever reason, skip stopped Littlehaven, Ifield, Crawley, Horley and took the Quarry Line, meaning that by Finsbury Park it was half an hour late. It is now skip stopping from Finsbury - Peterborough, which is completely pointless considering the disruption at the moment.

Edit: A BLOK is now in place between Biggleswade & St Neots on the UF.

Doesn't seem to be 1A36.. seemed to be 1E14

 

[whoosh]

Chaos this afternoon towards Peterborough due to damage to the overhead wires. 1A36 looks to be the culprit, currently standing at St Neots. As an example, 9J44 was already 45 mins late leaving Horsham for whatever reason, skip stopped Littlehaven, Ifield, Crawley, Horley and took the Quarry Line, meaning that by Finsbury Park it was half an hour late. It is now skip stopping from Finsbury - Peterborough, which is completely pointless considering the disruption at the moment.

Edit: A BLOK is now in place between Biggleswade & St Neots on the UF.

Bus hit the railway bridge at Norwood Junction. Whole top deck off!
Luckily, although perhaps worryingly, it's a training bus (!) not in passenger service.

 

[Steve Harris]

Bus hit the railway bridge at Norwood Junction. Whole top deck off!
Luckily, although perhaps worryingly, it's a training bus (!) not in passenger service.

That is worrying, especially when the bus has "driver under instruction" sign written on it !! There could be two tea with no biscuits coming up methinks.

 

[Bald Rick]

That is worrying, especially when the bus has "driver under instruction" sign written on it !! There could be two tea with no biscuits coming up methinks.

Especially as the bus is a Go Ahead bus…

Sandy issue was a Minor OLE fault on the Up Fast. Fixed and reopened over 2 hours ago.

 

[frediculous]

A very late 9J52 Thameslink not stopping at Sandy, Arlesey or Hitchin, but is directly behind the semi-fast Great Northern 1P88 that's additionally calling at Arlesey and Hitchin, but not Sandy.

So obviously it's not making up time by skipping those stations. Madness

(Both caught up a light loco move too, just to really help)

All of this caused by problems near Croydon. Really, they need to just abandon the service and run to and from King's Cross instead.

Also had some dreadful regulation at Blackfriars where my Welwyn train was held approaching P2 because a late running Peterborough was put in front...except that had to wait for a departing service from P3, delaying both services (even more for the Peterborough one, whereas the Welwyn was on time)

 

[Bald Rick]

Really, they need to just abandon the service and run to and from King's Cross instead.

Not so helpful when there are Peterborough and Cambridge drivers in Sussex and Horsham / Brighton drivers on the ECML.

Also had some dreadful regulation at Blackfriars where my Welwyn train was held approaching P2 because a late running Peterborough was put in front...except that had to wait for a departing service from P3, delaying both services (even more for the Peterborough one, whereas the Welwyn was on time)

Why is that dreadful? Seems corrct to me.

 

[frediculous]

Why is that dreadful? Seems corrct to me.

Why delay both trains? The Welwyn one had a clear run into P2 at Blackfriars but had to wait for both a departing service and the late running Peterborough one, and thus ended up pointlessly late

Also, I thought they did a driver swap at Finsbury Park, rather than a Brighton driver going all the way to Cambridge?

 

[Bald Rick]

Why delay both trains? The Welwyn one had a clear run into P2 at Blackfriars but had to wait for both a departing service and the late running Peterborough one, and thus ended up pointlessly late

Ah I see, I didnt realise the Peterboro was not swapped over at Southwark Bridge. Yes on reflection that could have been done better. Albeit the core south signaller would have had an awful lot on their plate.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2025 ==

Also, I thought they did a driver swap at Finsbury Park, rather than a Brighton driver going all the way to Cambridge?

Some do, but some Brighton drivers do go all the way.

 

[bramling]

Not so helpful when there are Peterborough and Cambridge drivers in Sussex and Horsham / Brighton drivers on the ECML

I suspect a many would be quite happy for the service to run to/from King’s Cross on a permanent basis. It’s noteworthy that we were told on here that diverting to/from KX would be a simple matter during disruption. So either that was incorrect, arrangements have changed, or perhaps it was a lie…

 

[Bikeman78]

I suspect a many would be quite happy for the service to run to/from King’s Cross on a permanent basis. It’s noteworthy that we were told on here that diverting to/from KX would be a simple matter during disruption. So either that was incorrect, arrangements have changed, or perhaps it was a lie…

Likewise, I'd be more than happy for the Horsham side to go back to Victoria or London Bridge. Hours of disruption, cancellations, and trains skipping stops because of problems on the ECML is becoming rather tiresome.

 

[Bald Rick]

I suspect the large number of passengers travelling ECML and Horsham to core stations would think differenty.

 

[OscarH]

I suspect the large number of passengers travelling ECML and Horsham to core stations would think differenty.

Yes, we're already lumped with the via Redhill line, an extra change to get to Farringdon or St Pancras would be very annoying!

 

[WeGoAgain]

Also, I thought they did a driver swap at Finsbury Park, rather than a Brighton driver going all the way to Cambridge?

Some do, but some Brighton drivers do go all the way.

Some Cambridge Drivers also sign down to Brighton and may want to get back to Cambridge. (Though there are other means in times of disruption).

 

[Failed Unit]

Time for another vent.

This evening on the 2227 London King’s Cross - Cambridge the driver didn’t turn up. When did great northern decide to cancel it? 2315.

this was the last train of the evening on the Welwyn Garden City branch. They could have stopped the 2309 additionally. However in the GTR wisdom it was fend for yourself time.

 

[saismee]

Time for another vent.

This evening on the 2227 London King’s Cross - Cambridge the driver didn’t turn up. When did great northern decide to cancel it? 2315.

this was the last train of the evening on the Welwyn Garden City branch. They could have stopped the 2309 additionally. However in the GTR wisdom it was fend for yourself time.

I wonder how far you could get by booking a hotel for the night and complaining the next day. Correct me if I'm wrong but they'd surely have to pay for it due to your rights under the NRCoT?

Your Rights and Obligations as a Passenger | National Rail

When you buy a train ticket to travel on the rail network, you enter into an agreement with the train companies. Find out about your rights and obligations as a passenger, and how to get more information.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

28.2

Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is
valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide
you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary, provide
overnight accommodation for you.

Maybe it'd be wise to attempt to contact customer service first but I'm not sure if they'd be available. The last train should be sacred!

 

[Failed Unit]

Will head to Stevenage and ask them to get us a taxi back. (Or maybe a get a replacement bus). Just amazed by the lack of communication from GTR. Thank for the suggestion. I will get back tonight. Eventually.

 

[Robski]

Time for another vent.

This evening on the 2227 London King’s Cross - Cambridge the driver didn’t turn up. When did great northern decide to cancel it? 2315.

this was the last train of the evening on the Welwyn Garden City branch. They could have stopped the 2309 additionally. However in the GTR wisdom it was fend for yourself time.

RRBs are running from Alexandria Palace as part of planned engineering work so there are ways of getting to Welwyn. The 23:09 is booked via Hertford today as the ECML is shut this evening so not much use for getting to Welwyn.

Doesn't excuse how it took GTR nearly an hour to realise their driver won't turn up on time though!

 

[Failed Unit]

RRBs are running from Alexandria Palace as part of planned engineering work so there are ways of getting to Welwyn. The 23:09 is booked via Hertford today as the ECML is shut this evening so not much use for getting to Welwyn.

Doesn't excuse how it took GTR nearly an hour to realise their driver won't turn up on time though!

Just realised the trains are still running to WGC which is a result. Shorter taxi ride (or even walkable to Welwyn North). Not sure why the staff at Kings Cross couldn’t relay this. Didn’t realise the 2309 was diverted.

Anyone know why the 2333 is still running via WGC?