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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
- Thread starter hexagon789
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
Thanks @sd0733
197022 is the 10th ETCS-fitted 197 to have entered service @Peter Sarf.
This now means that 66 (of 77) 197s have been in service.
40 (of 51) 2-car 197s have been in service:
All 30 non-ETCS 2-cars (197001-002, 197004-021, 197042-051)
10 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 2-cars (197003, 197022, 197024, 197028-031, 197033-035)
All 26 3-car 197s have been in service:
All 12 188-seat 3-cars (197101-112)
All 14 174-seat 3-cars (197113-126)
==============================
The number of 197s still to enter service is down to 11, all ETCS-fitted 2-cars:
197023, 197025-027, 197032, 197036-041
==============================
The overall number of new Transport for Wales (TfW) trains that have been in service is now up to 97 (of 148):
40 (of 51) 197/0s
All 26 197/1s
All 11 231s
3 (of 7) 756/0s
All 17 756/1s
This leaves 51 new TfW trains still to enter service:
11 197/0s
36 398s
4 756/0s
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
To add I see that of the ERTMS fitted 197s only four are currently in use 197022, 197024, 197029 & 197035. It does seem that TfW continue to steadily work through getting each ERTMS 197 into use and then stored.Thanks @sd0733
197022 is the 10th ETCS-fitted 197 to have entered service @Peter Sarf.
This now means that 66 (of 77) 197s have been in service.
40 (of 51) 2-car 197s have been in service:
All 30 non-ETCS 2-cars (197001-002, 197004-021, 197042-051)
10 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 2-cars (197003, 197022, 197024, 197028-031, 197033-035)
All 26 3-car 197s have been in service:
All 12 188-seat 3-cars (197101-112)
All 14 174-seat 3-cars (197113-126)
==============================
The number of 197s still to enter service is down to 11, all ETCS-fitted 2-cars:
197023, 197025-027, 197032, 197036-041
==============================
The overall number of new Transport for Wales (TfW) trains that have been in service is now up to 96 (of 148):
40 (of 51) 197/0s
All 26 197/1s
All 11 231s
2 (of 7) 756/0s
All 17 756/1s
This leaves 52 new TfW trains still to enter service:
11 197/0s
36 398s
5 756/0s
I was not keeping track a while back but have any of the other ERTMS 197s that were used and are now unused/stored been in service with longish pauses in use ?.
A pair of 150s is scheduled to do the 1329 Milford to Manchester in place of a 197. The 197s must be in dire straits if they are using Sprinters to Manchester again. Although I really wouldnt be surprised if its swapped for a 197 somewhere along the line, most likely at Cardiff and RTT wont have updated yet! Ive just seen the pair of 150 at Neath so they are on the diagram currently.
Topological
Established Member
Things look pretty desperate today, the 150s are on tte 20:30 Manchester to Hereford.
D365
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 13,180
The onboard Ansaldo ETCS on the 158s and 97s is not long term ’supported’ by Hitachi; these vehicles will not be upgraded to latest Baseline. The intention is that the 197s with Baseline 3 ETCS will be ”backwards compatible” with Cambrian ERTMS, in accordance with ERA (European Union Agency for Railways) specification guidance.
Yes thats the same diagram I think.
A quick ish scan on RTT and I think there are 43 x 197s in service today (25 x 2 car and 18 x 3 car). A few were showing movements around Chester depot etc as ECS so I didnt include them in my total but tney might well be in passenger service at some point.
Roughly I worked it out as 2 on Swansea to Pembroke Dock, 3 on Manchester to Chester, 14 on Manchester to South/West Wales, 9 on Crewe/Chester/North Wales, 4 on Ebbw Vale/Maesteg, 2 on Chester to Liverpool, 1 on Conwy Valley, 3 on Holyhead to Cardiff, 3 on Cardiff/Swansea-Fishguard and 2 on Cardiff to Cheltenaham.
I may well be 1 or 2 out though as I said but thats generally roughly where we look to be today. Things are a bit different on Sundays too.
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Western 52
Established Member
I just saw 150283+150251 pass my house in Burry Port on 1W61 1329 off Milford Haven so they are still on the diagram.
Looks like it's now departed Cardiff as a pair of 150s (assuming RTT is correct). This could be the first TFW 150s to visit Manchester in a long time unless it's swapped at Crewe.
At least its 4 carriages so should be enough capacity.
Anonymous10
Established Member
May be their last on this route ?
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Thanks for the info
I thought the Cambrian ERTMS was updated in some way though, am I wrong?Peter Sarf
Established Member
Does that mean the 97s (ERTMS class 37s) will no longer be usable on the Cambrian Coast ?.
What locos will there be available for the route instead ?.
43096
On Moderation
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- 18,810
Presumably locos converted under the East Coast programme are Baseline 3 ETCS fitted so should be backwards compatible with the Cambrian too.
BillStampy
Established Member
I'm starting to suspect those two were booked onto that service as the 20.30 makes it to Hereford and they form the early morning Cardiff service; then splitting into a Pembroke Dock service and a Cheltenham service. Just seems rather well planned to me.
Its all booked 197s but looking at all the diagrams, one finishing at Hereford and doing that on the second day makes it an obvious candidate for substitutions.
The only coupling either are planned to do is to go onto Canton in the evening, ironically, that diagram is currently an AT covering for a 197 too.
Envoy
Established Member
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- 3,139
So, 150’s back on the Manchester run from SW Wales yet we have 8 Accepted for service 197’s sitting in storage sidings at Holyhead. Why are't they distributed around the network ready to be pulled into service as and when needed?
As has been said many times, the ETCS units are only out covering long term stopped 197's. Short term stopped units are not part of the pool that Chester can manage at once. It's not as simple as just picking from some stored units and having them out for a day or two.
Something obviously happened to the availability over the weekend that meant 150's were used as substitutes.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
My guess is no space for these, currently, spare 197s. The space only appears for more (ERTMS) 197s when the ERTMS 158s leave (probably in one fell swoop). Then none of those ERTMS 197s will be available for spare/cover of course !.
I am also thinking when 398s take over the TAM lines which are fed from the new 398 depot at Taffs Wells that will effectively free up a lot of DMUs (probably 150s). That will mean the likes of Canton having more space. The space at Canton would/could presumably be used for non-ERTMS 197s.
I can also ponder that the availability of 197s is not yet as good as it is expected to be ?.
When the 197s are fully bedded in (eventually) there will be less need for cover anyway.
EDIT
As @Caaardiff says, Chester has no space for spare units. If a 197 is dragged in from store at Holyhead a failed 197 has to leave first. That is not practical if the errant 197 only needs one or two days work on it. I am assuming the 197s are not yet as reliable as promised/hoped/expected - like all new fleets.
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It makes sense to reduce the 197 diagrams from 50 to 48 given they are struggling to cover all diagrams. They might as well book some workings for the Sprinters first as last. At least then hopefully the long distance services such as Manchester-South Wales should hopefully remain 197s.
What is more concerning is long term when the 150s have gone and the ERTMS units have replaced the 158s there will be little choice but to short form or cancel services if there is a drop in 197 availability.
What is more concerning is long term when the 150s have gone and the ERTMS units have replaced the 158s there will be little choice but to short form or cancel services if there is a drop in 197 availability.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I am clinging to the standard hope that this new fleet (ie 197s) will have successfully climbed its bath tub curve of reliability before the 150s / 158s are dispensed with. But there will be a limit to how many 150s /158s can be temporarily retained until the TAM lines go over to 398s. So after the 398s are in service would be a good time to rely on all the 197s because Canton will then have capacity to hold on to Sprinters (150s and/or 158s) as backup.
Then it is down to where else the TfW Sprinters are expected to go or if their next big exam/repair is due (scrap).
Envoy
Established Member
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I am pleased to see that things look better today although I would not want to be on a 2 car 197 on the Cardiff to north Wales run.
Is it not the case that the 398’s could at least begin running the Pontypridd to Cardiff Bay services to get the introduction of these tram-trains started? That would start the process which will eventually lead to Canton losing the sprinters and thus create space for 197’s as well as the FIRTS.
Is it not the case that the 398’s could at least begin running the Pontypridd to Cardiff Bay services to get the introduction of these tram-trains started? That would start the process which will eventually lead to Canton losing the sprinters and thus create space for 197’s as well as the FIRTS.
Things do look better today. It looks like 48 were out today if ive worked it out correctly from RTT. It seems the diagrams running as Sprinters are on Cheltenham and Ebbw Vale services. There also seems to be a 150 in West Wales today visiting Miilford Haven but not involved in a Manchester service. With the reduced service between Newport and Cardiff things are bit different today with the Ebbw Vale services too.
BillStampy
Established Member
I don't particularly mind having a 150 on my Maesteg runs at the moment, bring them on! Need to catch a few more before they go, anyway.
Me neither. Ive liked riding a few 150s recently when they have turned up. Much as I hated them on long distance services to Manchester. I will miss them when they finally go. They are very reliable trains.
nigelsporne
Member
Cambrian units 022 and 024 on the Brum to Holyhead diagram this morning. New ground?
The diagram they're on went over to 197s a few weeks ago.
It is fairly rare for a pair of ERTMS units to end up paired up though.
nigelsporne
Member
Yes I am aware that since the new timetable this has been a regular 197 turn as I have been monitoring it. There were a few examples prior to the change as well. However I cannot recall any Cambrian units on passenger duties. I may have missed some though.
Apologies, I took the post in the wrong context then.
Theres generally 3 of the ERTMS ones put in the general pool, the current ones being 022/024/035. They cycle round every few weeks with the units stored at Holyhead (currently 003/028/029/030/031/033/034 there which have already been in service)