TfW withdrawals (Now just 150/158s to go)

[Anonymous10]

150280 didnt sound very well when i was on it earlier. The engine wasnt working in the rear carriage (it was very quiet) and most of the lights were off (not an issue on a very sunny day) but then at Bridgend it started working and the lights also came on. I didnt realise that it was attached to one of the active travel sets until i got off at my swanline stop , as at Cardiff Platform 0 was so congested Ijust got on the first set of doors I came to (150280 on the back). Still nice extra capacity for Pembroke Dock/Tenby having 4 carriages on a sunny Saturday. This would have formed the 17xx from Tenby to Swansea/Cardiff so very welcome I imagine.

Normally id be fuming if a 150 replaced a 197 but it was quite nice to ride a 150 today now they are on their way out. Even if i had realised it was attached to a pair of 153s id have chosen the 150 especially with the awful seating on the active travel 153 carriage. Good use of the spare trains whilst the HOWL is closed and Cardiff Bay closed today also.

Likely had the AT unit as its the carten today, where people cycle Cardiff- Tenby for charity. Tenby gets extra busy in these events.

 

[Cardiff123]

I'm no fan of the 150s when compared to the 231s and 756s that are replacing them. But I do recognise the 40+ years of dependable service that they've given in Wales, particularly on the Valley lines.

It would be a really nice touch for TfW to re-paint one of their 150s in the original "Sprinter" livery. The best candidate for that would've been the 150242/279 hybrid, but obviously it was re-painted in TfW livery.

I get that 150s will be around with Northern & GWR longer than TfW, but it would be a nice nod from TfW to see at least one of their 150s in its original livery before they are all sent for scrap.

 

[simonmpoulton]

It would be a really nice touch for TfW to re-paint one of their 150s in the original "Sprinter" livery. The best candidate for that would've been the 150242/279 hybrid, but obviously it was re-painted in TfW livery.

Is a great idea - I just don't see TFW doing it though - they have been running the 150's right into the ground!

 

[tfw756rider]

You've twice referred to 150279 as 170279, it would reduce possible confusion if you could edit your posts to show the correct number

What?! I'm not sure how I managed that, because I'm usually quite good at noticing things like that! I've now corrected as many of them as I can, thanks

 

[The_Train]

I planned to head down to Cardiff last Friday @BillStampy after my long wait for 150242 to return seem to be over. Woke up nice and early, checked RTT and found it wasn't allocated to anything I think I am destined to never find that unit And to add some salt to the wound, the 67 diagram I planned to take down to Cardiff had been subbed with a 197 - not a chance of me doing that all the way to Cardiff

 

[Defiance149]

One of the 150s at Landore has been removed by road to Unimetals, Newport this morning, anyone know which set?

 

[Jez]

The 150s seem to be doing very well as out of the now only 27 available in service (I think?) 23 seem to be out today.

14 on the Core Valley Lines (Cardiff Bay/VOG/Coryton/Pontypridd/Rhumney/Penarth). Of the others in service we have 2 on Newport-Ebbw Vale, 2 on the Heart of Wales, 3 on Maesteg-Ebbw Vale (including 1 working as a pair), 1 on Cheltenham and 1 on Pembroke Dock. I think the ones on Maesteg/Pembroke/Cheltenham are covering for for absent 197s. so there may be less booked diagrams. But either way they are doing very well covering so many diagrams.

 

[Cardiff123]

The 150s seem to be doing very as well as out of the now only 27 available in service (I think?) 23 seem to be out today.

14 on the Core Valley Lines (Cardiff Bay/VOG/Coryton/Pontypridd/Rhumney/Penarth). Of the others in service we have 2 on Newport-Ebbw Vale, 2 on the Heart of Wales, 3 on Maesteg-Ebbw Vale (including 1 working as a pair), 1 on Cheltenham and 1 on Pembroke Dock. I think the ones on Maesteg/Pembroke/Cheltenham are covering for for absent 197s. so there may be less booked diagrams. But either way they are doing very well covering so many diagrams.

My prediction is that there will still be plenty of 150s out in south Wales this time next year. There's certainly no indication of 150s coming off Rhymney / Caerphilly to Bridgend services within 12 months.

 

[Caaardiff]

The 150s seem to be doing very as well as out of the now only 27 available in service (I think?) 23 seem to be out today.

14 on the Core Valley Lines (Cardiff Bay/VOG/Coryton/Pontypridd/Rhumney/Penarth). Of the others in service we have 2 on Newport-Ebbw Vale, 2 on the Heart of Wales, 3 on Maesteg-Ebbw Vale (including 1 working as a pair), 1 on Cheltenham and 1 on Pembroke Dock. I think the ones on Maesteg/Pembroke/Cheltenham are covering for for absent 197s. so there may be less booked diagrams. But either way they are doing very well covering so many diagrams.

Currently around 16 booked 150 diagrams each day.

 

[Jez]

Currently around 16 booked 150 diagrams each day.

I'm guessing the booked workings are mainly Ebbw Vale to Newport and those on core valley routes. Which means a lot are still covering on other routes such as the Heart of Wales and Maesteg.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2025 ==

My prediction is that there will still be plenty of 150s out in south Wales this time next year. There's certainly no indication of 150s coming off Rhymney / Caerphilly to Bridgend services within 12 months.

I suppose it depends how quickly the rest of the new trains can replace them.

 

[Bikeman78]

I'm guessing the booked workings are mainly Ebbw Vale to Newport and those on core valley routes. Which means a lot are still covering on other routes such as the Heart of Wales and Maesteg.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2025 ==


I suppose it depends how quickly the rest of the new trains can replace them.

There are 26 left. 150235 was the 10th unit to be withdrawn. 150255 has to go by June 22nd. Switching the Penarth route to class 756 will replace five diagrams. After that, nothing will change until the class 398 start in service.

 

[D7672]

Newport and ebbw vales have been 150s and odd active travel 153s,as a casual observer of the first services running,the route has seen all members of the 15x fleet,170s and 175s,of which 153 was the first off cardiff to ebbw vale on a morning for then the Newport service,158 or 197s to cardiff/measteg.
Certainly changed since last timetable to the new one now in place.
The line has 35mph max and when the 231s appear on services,the acceleration will be a different matter to the current fleet in use.

 

[sd0733]

I'm guessing the booked workings are mainly Ebbw Vale to Newport and those on core valley routes. Which means a lot are still covering on other routes such as the Heart of Wales and Maesteg

150s are still covering for a variety of traction, yesterday for example 6 additional units were out, 3 covering for 197/1s, 1 for a 197/0, 1 for a 231 and 1 for an AT (which itself was also covering a 197/0 diagram).
Its fair to say that without the 150s filling in most days would have large amounts of shortforms and cancellations.
All the 150 fleet bar 1 (241) have been in service in the last 3 days.

 

[Jez]

150s are still covering for a variety of traction, yesterday for example 6 additional units were out, 3 covering for 197/1s, 1 for a 197/0, 1 for a 231 and 1 for an AT (which itself was also covering a 197/0 diagram).
Its fair to say that without the 150s filling in most days would have large amounts of shortforms and cancellations.
All the 150 fleet bar 1 (241) have been in service in the last 3 days.

I know a lot of people dont like the 150s but i rate them very highly. Certainly more than the 153s. It was mainly them appearing on West Wales to Manchester that I objected to. Otherwise they are very reliable trains for TFW and I will miss them when they finally go.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jun 2025 ==

There are 26 left. 150235 was the 10th unit to be withdrawn. 150255 has to go by June 22nd. Switching the Penarth route to class 756 will replace five diagrams. After that, nothing will change until the class 398 start in service.

thanks for confirming this. Even more impressive that so mahy haven been out in service given there are only 26 left.

 

[EveningStarr]

Does anyone know when the last C6 date is and which units? So in theory, what's the longest time TfW could keep some 150s operable before their C6, not counting lease agreements etc? I'd have thought 150242 and 279 would last the longest given their recent misadventures, but I may be wrong.

 

[diligentdave]

Does anyone know when the last C6 date is and which units? So in theory, what's the longest time TfW could keep some 150s operable before their C6, not counting lease agreements etc? I'd have thought 150242 and 279 would last the longest given their recent misadventures, but I may be wrong.

150284 has a current C6/handback date of Jan 2029. 242 & 279 are March 26 & August 26 respectively (although that might move out a bit due to the aforementioned incident).

 

[Cardiff123]

150284 has a current C6/handback date of Jan 2029. 242 & 279 are March 26 & August 26 respectively (although that might move out a bit due to the aforementioned incident).

So in theory, 284 could go to another operator (or region of GBR as it will be by then) once TfW have handed back all of their 150s.
In reality though, I suspect once it's time is up with TfW it'll go for scrap.

I've read in a thread on this forum that TfW have leased their 150s until 31 March 2027

 

[158822]

Which will be the next few 150s to go after 150255?

 

[StripeyNick]

Which will be the next few 150s to go after 150255?

I've got, in order, 231, 257, 213 & 217 as next to go

 

[158822]

Thanks. Will those all be gone by the end of this year?

 

[StripeyNick]

Thanks. Will those all be gone by the end of this year?

From what I've seen, yes

255 going imminently
231 next month
257, 213 & 217 in Aug/Sept

217 MAY just last until October

 

[tfw756rider]

Does anyone in here know what the actual reason for the not-originally-intended move of the 170/2s from Transport for Wales (TfW) to East Midlands Railway (EMR) was?

I know EMR were unable to get as many 171s from Southern as they initially thought, but was it really a "revision of TfW's long-term rolling stock strategy" (as stated in the 170 Wikipedia article and which I take to mean as "by TfW themselves"), or were TfW forced by the Department for Transport to "lose" the 170s?

 

[Jez]

Does anyone in here know what the actual reason for the not-originally-intended move of the 170/2s from Transport for Wales (TfW) to East Midlands Railway (EMR) was?

I know EMR were unable to get as many 171s from Southern as they initially thought, but was it really a "revision of TfW's long-term rolling stock strategy" (as stated in the 170 Wikipedia article and which I take to mean as "by TfW themselves"), or were TfW forced by the Department for Transport to "lose" the 170s?

I think it was when TFW decided to take on the MK4's for the two hourly Manchester to Cardiff's. Originally the plan was for all Manchester-Cardiff-West Wales to be 5 car 197s with 170s on Heart of Wales, Crewe Local, Pembroke Dock and Fishguard (possibly some/all Swanline). But then it was decided with some of the 197s freed up by some Manchesters being covered by MK4's they would use these 197s on Pembroke Dock etc and there wouldnt be the need for the 170s to be kept. This just left the Heart of Wales where a small number of Sprinters are being kept for that and the Crewe local service.

I could be wrong but I think TFW decided the 170s werent really suitable for the long term plan and they were simply temporary to cover some routes close to Cardiff until the new fleet (197/231) came into place.

 

[craigybagel]

Does anyone in here know what the actual reason for the not-originally-intended move of the 170/2s from Transport for Wales (TfW) to East Midlands Railway (EMR) was?

I know EMR were unable to get as many 171s from Southern as they initially thought, but was it really a "revision of TfW's long-term rolling stock strategy" (as stated in the 170 Wikipedia article and which I take to mean as "by TfW themselves"), or were TfW forced by the Department for Transport to "lose" the 170s?

I think it was when TFW decided to take on the MK4's for the two hourly Manchester to Cardiff's. Originally the plan was for all Manchester-Cardiff-West Wales to be 5 car 197s with 170s on Heart of Wales, Crewe Local, Pembroke Dock and Fishguard (possibly some/all Swanline). But then it was decided with some of the 197s freed up by some Manchesters being covered by MK4's they would use these 197s on Pembroke Dock etc and there wouldnt be the need for the 170s to be kept. This just left the Heart of Wales where a small number of Sprinters are being kept for that and the Crewe local service.

I could be wrong but I think TFW decided the 170s werent really suitable for the long term plan and they were simply temporary to cover some routes close to Cardiff until the new fleet (197/231) came into place.

TfW's 170s were supposed to be a long term thing. The first phase was their use on short distance but not Valleys services around Cardiff, as a bridge until the 231s became available (which of course still hasn't happened on those routes). Whilst this phase was still in place, two things happened; Grand Central abandoned their planned Blackpool services because of COVID, freeing up a fleet of recently refurbished MKIVs, and EMR realised their plan to acquire 171s from Southern wasn't going to work.

The only realistic alternative home for the MKIVs was with TfW, and taking them on both provided stock for EMR, and saved TfW the hassle of clearing 170s for their long term planned routes (and training up their crews). It also gave TfW the chance to further enhance their product on the important Manchester - Cardiff route.

I'm not sure who the driving force for all of this was, but the vast amount of passengers involved at both companies benefitted from it.

 

[tfw756rider]

Many thanks both for the replies

 

[DelW]

I remember it being said at the time that the 170s would actually have been unsuitable for the Heart of Wales. IIRC one reason was that the line speed on much of the route is close to the speed at which 170s change gear, so they'd have been hunting up and down the gearbox a lot. They would have still needed their higher speed capability north of Craven Arms and south of Llanelli, so couldn't simply be regeared.

I think the information probably came from our well informed correspondent @craigybagel, who may be able to confirm (or correct) that.

 

[craigybagel]

I remember it being said at the time that the 170s would actually have been unsuitable for the Heart of Wales. IIRC one reason was that the line speed on much of the route is close to the speed at which 170s change gear, so they'd have been hunting up and down the gearbox a lot. They would have still needed their higher speed capability north of Craven Arms and south of Llanelli, so couldn't simply be regeared.

I think the information probably came from our well informed correspondent @craigybagel, who may be able to confirm (or correct) that.

To be fair, I was one of those who actually questioned whether it would be as big of a problem as was being made out by others. 170s at full power switch over at 67mph IIRC, which is indeed greater than the max 60 linespeed on the HOWL. However, every other DMU I've driven with that type of transmission will make the change at a lower speed if you've a lower power notch selected, like if you're holding a certain speed rather than trying to accelerate.

Also, 170s have worked plenty of stop-start services with lower speeds over the years at other companies, seemingly without major issues.

 

[Bikeman78]

From what I've seen, yes

255 going imminently
231 next month
257, 213 & 217 in Aug/Sept

217 MAY just last until October

255 end of day tomorrow by all accounts. It's out on Bridgend to Rhymney today. Barring major failures, TfW seems to be keeping the 150s to within days of the C6 date. Whether they bin off a few when Coryton switches to class 756, or keep them as a useful float of units to cover class 197s, remains to be seen.

 

[DelW]

To be fair, I was one of those who actually questioned whether it would be as big of a problem as was being made out by others. 170s at full power switch over at 67mph IIRC, which is indeed greater than the max 60 linespeed on the HOWL. However, every other DMU I've driven with that type of transmission will make the change at a lower speed if you've a lower power notch selected, like if you're holding a certain speed rather than trying to accelerate.

Also, 170s have worked plenty of stop-start services with lower speeds over the years at other companies, seemingly without major issues.

Thanks for the details, I thought my recollection of the discussion that took place at the time might be a bit, erm, hazy!

 

[BillStampy]

Realtime Trains | 5Z55 1055 Cardiff Canton Sidings to Landore T.M.D. | 19/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Z55 1055 departure from Cardiff Canton Sidings to Landore T.M.D. on 19/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

150255 is now finished with TfW, working it's last day on the Ebbw Vale Line, departing Canton tomorrow as 5Z55 at 1055 using unit number 150255. Lots of 55s in that!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2025 ==

150235 went to Landore this morning. Caught me by surprise that one.

Very oddly, 150235 is now expected at The Greatest Gathering in Derby for August!