Motorway services discussion

[Russel]

We quite like to find a spot for food just off route rather than stop at service stations, where possible. An example would be the M25 J17 or J18. There are some cracking pubs and cafes in and around Chorleywood that serve fresh food, all within a couple of mins drive from the motorway.

We do the same, we used to use Sainsburys Portishead about a mile from Welcome Break Gordano on the M5 because it had a decent cafe, but they closed the cafe during Covid unfortunately.

 

[DelW]

Alongside the visual impact that an added staircase would have, this would necessitate an approval process.

My solution would be a spiral helter-skelter slide back to ground level. It could even spiral around the central column. All the children would be demanding a trip up there!

We do the same, we used to use Sainsburys Portishead about a mile from Welcome Break Gordano on the M5 because it had a decent cafe, but they closed the cafe during Covid unfortunately.

Sainsbury's recently announced the closure of all their remaining cafes. I don't think many supermarkets retain them now, though my local Waitrose still has its coffee shop.

 

[Zamracene749]

My solution would be a spiral helter-skelter slide back to ground level. It could even spiral around the central column. All the children would be demanding a trip up there!


Sainsbury's recently announced the closure of all their remaining cafes. I don't think many supermarkets retain them now, though my local Waitrose still has its coffee shop.

Ha- a slidy fire escape would be class Isn't there a station somewhere in the Netherlands where you can exit via a slide as an alternative to the more sensible stairs?

 

[Ediswan]

Sainsbury's recently announced the closure of all their remaining cafes.

My understanding is that some Sainsbury's branches retain a 'cafe', but now independently operated. My local has "The Restaurant Hub Food Court".

 

[The exile]

There’s probably a “best places to eat within 10 minutes of a motorway junction” thread to be had too……

I know this is a railway forum, but that as a sticky thread would be most welcome!

 

[WibbleWobble]

There's a website called Just Off Junction which does exactly this.

JustoffJunction.co.uk

Motorway Services and Alternatives to Motorway Services just off the Motorway. Great places to eat, cheaper petrol and much more near motorway junctions

www.justoffjunction.co.uk

 

[Noddy]

We do the same, we used to use Sainsburys Portishead about a mile from Welcome Break Gordano on the M5 because it had a decent cafe, but they closed the cafe during Covid unfortunately.

That’s an optimistic mile! Clearly you never passed at rush hour!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2025 ==

There's a website called Just Off Junction which does exactly this.

JustoffJunction.co.uk

Motorway Services and Alternatives to Motorway Services just off the Motorway. Great places to eat, cheaper petrol and much more near motorway junctions

www.justoffjunction.co.uk

I totally get why folk do this but encouraging this does raise an interesting point about causing unnecessary road journey on local roads and the associated social and environmental costs. Just as an example The Portbury Hundred is well known for traffic problems (Portishead reopening anyone?) and if lots of people are using it to simply to avoid Gordano is that a good thing?

 

[SuspectUsual]

I totally get why folk do this but encouraging this does raise an interesting point about causing unnecessary road journey on local roads and the associated social and environmental costs. Just as an example The Portbury Hundred is well known for traffic problems (Portishead reopening anyone?) and if lots of people are using it to simply to avoid Gordano is that a good thing?

If motorway services were good enough for what people want, and (reasonably) affordable, people would use them more

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if it has already been mentioned but there is motorwayservices.uk website.
Circular 01/22 sets out the requirements.

• While motorway service areas would remain no more than 28 miles apart (30 minutes for trunk A-roads), a new rule said that HGV parking must be available every 14 miles on motorways and 20 minutes on trunk A-roads. These figures include urban trunk A-roads, for the first time.
• National Highways should now object to service areas that don't qualify for motorway signage being built on motorway junctions (possible existing examples: Markham Vale, Frontier Park).

The MSA requirements are:

• Two hours free parking for all vehicle types, with CCTV and lighting
• Free toilets, baby-changing facilities and a Changing Places, with no need to make a purchase
• Showers for HGV drivers, with lockers
• Petrol and diesel fuel
• Electric vehicle charging points
• Cooked hot food and hot drinks for consumption on the premises
• Access to a free-of-charge telephone for emergency use
• Free wifi
• Free power points available for device charging
• Access for those carrying out duties on behalf of the Secretary of State for Transport

Source: motorwayservices.uk website

 

[Russel]

That’s an optimistic mile! Clearly you never passed at rush hour!

Maybe just over a mile, I've never actually checked, but we normally head down to Devon twice a year but do Sunday to Sunday so generally we miss any traffic.

Gordano services it's self is just too small, both internally and the carpark, I've only ever used it once and it took me about 10 minutes of queueing to leave the carpark to get back onto the M5, that was on a Saturday though.... Then add into that the poor offerings and extortionate prices, it's not all that appealing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jun 2025 ==

If motorway services were good enough for what people want, and (reasonably) affordable, people would use them more

Exactly this, the likes of Welcome Break and Moto all contain the same generic chain brands, Costa etc, churning out poor to mediocre junk food and awful coffee while charging extortionate prices... Why would I choose them if there is an alternative nearby?

Even a McDonalds would be a better option, yeah it's still junk food but at least the price is easier to stomach.

 

[The exile]

If motorway services were good enough for what people want, and (reasonably) affordable, people would use them more

Exactly that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jun 2025 ==

Maybe just over a mile, I've never actually checked, but we normally head down to Devon twice a year but do Sunday to Sunday so generally we miss any traffic.

Gordano services it's self is just too small, both internally and the carpark, I've only ever used it once and it took me about 10 minutes of queueing to leave the carpark to get back onto the M5, that was on a Saturday though.... Then add into that the poor offerings and extortionate prices, it's not all that appealing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jun 2025 ==



Exactly this, the likes of Welcome Break and Moto all contain the same generic chain brands, Costa etc, churning out poor to mediocre junk food and awful coffee while charging extortionate prices... Why would I choose them if there is an alternative nearby?

Even a McDonalds would be a better option, yeah it's still junk food but at least the price is easier to stomach.

Equally, I wouldn’t mind the inflated prices if the reason was that “everything” was available 24/7 - or at least more for a lot longer than at present.

 

[Noddy]

Maybe just over a mile, I've never actually checked, but we normally head down to Devon twice a year but do Sunday to Sunday so generally we miss any traffic.

It 2.5 miles, so 5 miles round trip! Pre Covid 20 minute delays were common on The Portbury Hundred (I think from memory the average weekday delay was 12 minutes each way).

Gordano services it's self is just too small, both internally and the carpark, I've only ever used it once and it took me about 10 minutes of queueing to leave the carpark to get back onto the M5, that was on a Saturday though.... Then add into that the poor offerings and extortionate prices, it's not all that appealing.

If motorway services were good enough for what people want, and (reasonably) affordable, people would use them more

This is all totally understandable and get it, but doesn’t address the actual point I was making: Should we be actively encouraging folk to avoid service areas and do, for example, 5 mile detours on congested local roads adding to the social and environmental harm that causes?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Only used Bridgewater a couple of times, but it's always been chaos.

Does Bridgwater Services (Moto) on/near J24 on the M5 deserve its reputation of arguably being the very worst in the country?

 

[stuu]

Does Bridgwater Services (Moto) on/near J24 on the M5 deserve its reputation of arguably being the very worst in the country?

Yes. It's tiny, the car park is tiny too, you have to cross the access route to the car park to get in the building, and the road access is pretty awkward... It's not manky as such, it's just not what you expect from a proper motorway services

 

[SuspectUsual]

This is all totally understandable and get it, but doesn’t address the actual point I was making: Should we be actively encouraging folk to avoid service areas and do, for example, 5 mile detours on congested local roads adding to the social and environmental harm that causes?

I don't see why not.

Are the local roads always congested? Obviously not.

The environmental argument is surely marginal; if people are contemplating using motorway services they're on a lengthy journey so the increase in their overall activity from a mile or two detour is very small. If you want to go down the environmental line, you should be discouraging the journey, not fiddling with details of it.

And as for social harm, there's an argument that there's social benefit if the alternative non-motorway provider is (best of all) a local business or (second best) employs local people

Would we contemplate not encouraging people to use anything but their nearest supermarket, hairdresser, restaurant, church, whatever?

 

[The exile]

It 2.5 miles, so 5 miles round trip! Pre Covid 20 minute delays were common on The Portbury Hundred (I think from memory the average weekday delay was 12 minutes each way).





This is all totally understandable and get it, but doesn’t address the actual point I was making: Should we be actively encouraging folk to avoid service areas and do, for example, 5 mile detours on congested local roads adding to the social and environmental harm that causes?

Accept this - but the onus is then to ensure that there s no need to do so. While motorway service areas continue to offer little but plastic fast food at over-inflated prices in an atmosphere that is anything but restful (remember, we’re encouraged to take a break from driving if tired, but your average service area only serves to raise the stress level). And who in their right mind (and paying themselves) would choose to pay M-way fuel prices?

 

[Indigo Soup]

And as for social harm, there's an argument that there's social benefit if the alternative non-motorway provider is (best of all) a local business or (second best) employs local people

A theoretically interesting model for MSAs would be for the DfT - probably through an intermediate state-owned company - to build and operate the sites, including toilets etc., and lease out the commercial space on a unit-by-unit basis. In theory this could allow local businesses to get into MSAs without having to take on the burden of running the whole thing. In practice, the DfT would seek to get the highest possible rents and you'd just wind up with the same chains run by large franchisees.

Another interesting - if silly - model would have been to hand the whole lot to British Transport Hotels as a monopoly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A theoretically interesting model for MSAs would be for the DfT - probably through an intermediate state-owned company - to build and operate the sites, including toilets etc., and lease out the commercial space on a unit-by-unit basis. In theory this could allow local businesses to get into MSAs without having to take on the burden of running the whole thing. In practice, the DfT would seek to get the highest possible rents and you'd just wind up with the same chains run by large franchisees.

Another interesting - if silly - model would have been to hand the whole lot to British Transport Hotels as a monopoly.

Small businesses do get in to an extent - the ubiquitous phone shops and the likes you see hidden round by the toilets.

But with regard to the rest of it it provides what people want. They don't want a boutique, they want the familiar stuff quickly.

Yes, I know, Tebay, but it's a novelty. Once upon a time they were all like that to some extent in terms of the actual offering (if not quite as nice) - the Granary restaurant was pretty much what Tebay offer now. But that wasn't what people wanted day to day, they wanted the chains, particularly the one with a clown which is now probably in about half of them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jun 2025 ==

Accept this - but the onus is then to ensure that there s no need to do so. While motorway service areas continue to offer little but plastic fast food at over-inflated prices in an atmosphere that is anything but restful (remember, we’re encouraged to take a break from driving if tired, but your average service area only serves to raise the stress level). And who in their right mind (and paying themselves) would choose to pay M-way fuel prices?

Moto did experiment with dropping the fuel price to normal prices for a few months but found it wasn't as profitable. But it really is a distress purchase, a bit like an Avanti Anytime fare. With most ICE cars having a range between 400 and 600 miles, you have to be doing a heck of a long journey, or doing very poor planning (i.e. not filling up before joining the motorway), to need to fill up on a motorway. I think I've done it once ever.

Yes, if the prices were normal I might choose to fill up on the motorway, but with a little glance at the needle before starting out you can ensure you don't *have* to.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Small businesses do get in to an extent - the ubiquitous phone shops and the likes you see hidden round by the toilets.

Yep, but the contracting route makes it that bit harder for them to get in - the big operators run most of the units themselves. Even in the 'get BTH to do it' scenario, they just evolved into SSP and you've got to look closely to see a difference in brands between them and Moto or Roadchef.

I suppose the unit-by-unit lease might let the familiar brands come in through small franchisees rather than one large franchisee... but that's probably the only difference you'd realistically see.

you have to be doing a heck of a long journey, or doing very poor planning (i.e. not filling up before joining the motorway), to need to fill up on a motorway. I think I've done it once ever.

I've done it a couple of times on long journeys where I'd otherwise be on fumes by the time I got to the destination. Still best avoided, of course - with a bit of planning, you can pick a refuelling point that's less extortionate and which is also a pleasant place to have your lunch.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I think I've done it once ever

Ah - and I digress - but I remember the halcyon days of having a company car with fuel paid for, no questioning of the cost per litre, and Esso tiger tokens awarded on a per £ rather than per litre basis. Everyone I worked with filled up at Trowell services. And we had a lot of CDs, glassware and other assorted stuff from the tiger tokens catalogue

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yep, but the contracting route makes it that bit harder for them to get in - the big operators run most of the units themselves. Even in the 'get BTH to do it' scenario, they just evolved into SSP and you've got to look closely to see a difference in brands between them and Moto or Roadchef.

I suppose the unit-by-unit lease might let the familiar brands come in through small franchisees rather than one large franchisee... but that's probably the only difference you'd realistically see.

And in the end the brands are by and large what people actually want. Same as in railway stations - when I was a kid there was perennial moaning about Casey Jones and how it'd be better if it was McDonald's or Burger King. Yes they're all SSP licensing the brands, but the customers really won't care, and the markup these days isn't actually that high, particularly not on McDs. (I think the reason it took so long to get McDs into service areas was that originally they had fully consistent pricing - the ability of franchisees to vary prices significantly is a relatively new thing).

 

[gswindale]

Interesting discussion here.

Over the Bank Holiday weekend, we made our "annual" trip from Berkshire to Swansea along the M4. Now we could do it all in one go, we could do it in 2 goes with a brief toilet break at somewhere like Leigh Delamere, however with a 6 year old in tow, it is nice to break up the journey a little bit, so no MSA stops, but a short detour at Almondsbury to the Garden Centre there. Have a little look around, stretch legs, use facilities and have a nice Brie/Bacon panini and some chips for the little one.

Much more pleasant than whatever junk is being served at Moto and much more reasonably priced.

Coming back, we had lunch at Dyffryn Gardens outside Cardiff and just drove straight back from there.

I try to avoid an MSA except when we absolutely do need to stop for the toilets, which seems to be what most people do - when younger, I recall the tray service restaurants on the M1 and being able to sit and have a cake and some juice in relative peace - using something like Starbucks these days is a whole lot less peaceful.

I don't think I've stepped into a McD of any sort in the last 20 years, so unlikely to do so at an MSA.

Our stops of choice, subject to opening hours are Studley Grange Garden Centre in Swindon and Almondsbury Garden Centre in Bristol. We also found a nice one heading up towards Leicester last year when wiggling across from the M40 to M1, but can't remember what it was called.

I'd much rather pop into somewhere that isn't a big name brand to be honest.

 

[Russel]

Yes, I know, Tebay, but it's a novelty. Once upon a time they were all like that to some extent in terms of the actual offering (if not quite as nice) - the Granary restaurant was pretty much what Tebay offer now. But that wasn't what people wanted day to day, they wanted the chains, particularly the one with a clown which is now probably in about half of them.

Is it really what people want though, or is it what the likes of Moto and Welcome are willing to offer because letting units out to chains is the easiest and most profitable way of doing business?

 

[The exile]

Is it really what people want though, or is it what the likes of Moto and Welcome are willing to offer because letting units out to chains is the easiest and most profitable way of doing business?

It almost certainly is what a sizeable number of people want (or have been brainwashed into wanting). Others are there for the lack of an alternative.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it really what people want though, or is it what the likes of Moto and Welcome are willing to offer because letting units out to chains is the easiest and most profitable way of doing business?

Yes, I think it is. In the days when it was a newsagent and a Granary self service restaurant, just about everyone I knew was calling for it to have a Maccies and a KFC. That's now been delivered, and the crowds queueing for these clearly demonstrate that that offering is popular.

The units by the way are largely not let out to anyone, they're run by the services operator under a franchise (or possibly in some cases SSP on their behalf).

 

[Indigo Soup]

Is it really what people want though, or is it what the likes of Moto and Welcome are willing to offer because letting units out to chains is the easiest and most profitable way of doing business?

The economics of running a restaurant being what they are, and the economics of motorway services being what they are - which is to say dismal and near-catastrophic - the most profitable way to do business is the way that actually gets the punters in.

It almost certainly is what a sizeable number of people want (or have been brainwashed into wanting). Others are there for the lack of an alternative.

You say brainwashing, I say marketing... let's call the whole thing off!

The units by the way are largely not let out to anyone, they're run by the services operator under a franchise (or possibly in some cases SSP on their behalf).

The proportion of McDonalds, KFC, etc. outlets that are actually directly run by the brands in question is very small!

 

[Noddy]

Accept this - but the onus is then to ensure that there s no need to do so. While motorway service areas continue to offer little but plastic fast food at over-inflated prices in an atmosphere that is anything but restful (remember, we’re encouraged to take a break from driving if tired, but your average service area only serves to raise the stress level). And who in their right mind (and paying themselves) would choose to pay M-way fuel prices?

As an EV driver, there is zero difference between the price that the main operators charge at MSAs and at other sites. One of the reasons I’ve been thinking about this issue is I have used alternative off the motorway, not because of price but one of availability. For example Ionity at Gretna MSA only has 4 spaces but there’s an Ionity in Carlisle that has 12 spaces. The price is exactly the same but that chances of the station being full is much reduced. But do I feel guilty when I’m sat in traffic in Carlisle-to be honest yes. Most of the folk around me are just going about their daily commuting lives and there I am just making their lives more tedious.

In terms of general pricing yes MSAs are more expensive, but I’m not sure how much more expensive they are for like for like purchases (for example a cup of tea at Starbucks Gretna MSA versus one from the Starbucks at Carlisle that has the EV chargers)? Is the difference worth the cost of the fuel? If people are genuinely price conscious they would make ‘car sandwiches’ (as my wife calls them) and a flask.

Like @Bletchleyite says there was a lot of demand for the big names to come in. Folk moan about them but I was at Michealwood this morning at the big franchises were busy, ‘The Good Breakfast’ was quiet despite the fact it was breakfast time. To be honest I think the MSA providers are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Yes, I think it is. In the days when it was a newsagent and a Granary self service restaurant, just about everyone I knew was calling for it to have a Maccies and a KFC

All you heard were those who were dissatisfied though. You wouldn't have been anywhere nearly as likely to hear people complimenting the existing provision even if they were happy with it. Now, the pendulum has swung the other way, and we get to hear from those unhappy with fast food provision.

Surely the answer is a bit of each, rather than one or the other?

 

[Indigo Soup]

Surely the answer is a bit of each, rather than one or the other?

There was a time when there was a bit of each, sometimes even within the same service area. It would appear that those who wanted fast food were in a clear majority.

There are a few Extra-operated MSAs that have Nando's - they actually do lease out units to other franchisees - and Welcome Break has half-a-dozen Pizza Express units. Moto tried a Harvester franchise in 2013; it wasn't a success and it was killed off during the 2020 lockdowns. Notably, all of these are recognised brands, rather than the MSA's own brand.

The cafeteria-style self-service restaurant is, I think, not going to make a comeback any time soon!

 

[The Planner]

Does Bridgwater Services (Moto) on/near J24 on the M5 deserve its reputation of arguably being the very worst in the country?

Yes. It's tiny, the car park is tiny too, you have to cross the access route to the car park to get in the building, and the road access is pretty awkward... It's not manky as such, it's just not what you expect from a proper motorway services

Isn't that due to the fact it was never originally a service area? It was the only "rest area" on the network and was called Brent Knoll.

Edit: I'm thinking of Sedgemoor, carry on...