CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Bikeman78]

Thats true. Forgot that. TfW would really need all the 197s that should be available to be available and that includes 197s borrowed to cover other units (in South Wales). Which of course brings us back to big bank switch over.

One solution would be to start off with three class 197s running between Machynlleth and Pwllheli, with the pairs of class 158s from Birmingham running to Aberystwyth. Keeps the 197s out of the way whilst they bed in and removes the splitting and joining from the equation whilst all the other niggles are sorted.

 

[william.martin]

One solution would be to start off with three class 197s running between Machynlleth and Pwllheli, with the pairs of class 158s from Birmingham running to Aberystwyth. Keeps the 197s out of the way whilst they bed in and removes the splitting and joining from the equation whilst all the other niggles are sorted.

I agree that, that would work. From my experience there isn't a lot of people going between east of Machynlleth to West of Machynlleth, most people are between Pwhelli and Tywyn, as the line connects key holiday resorts, meaning a set swap wouldn't affect too many people. My local station was Dyfryn Ardudwy (between Barmouth and Harlech) for 9 years and I often did Dyfryn Ardudy to Telford Central, and the train would empty out after tywyn then fill back up after Caersews.

 

[Jez]

Is the issue with the toilets more the doors on the disabled toilets not opening/closing properly? I was on a 2 car 197 yesterday between Port Talbot and Cardiff and it was just as well the toilet was working as there were a few groups of men going to Cardiff for a stag do and the toilet was in constant use the entire journey! The main issue was people actually getting through the standing passengers which seem to congregate by the doors, to get to the actual toilet. Not ideal only putting 2 cars on these services on a Saturday. I suppose its too much to ask all Swansea-Cardiff are 5 cars!

 

[duffield]

I would imagine all modern office developments have automatic doors for accessible toilets. My office certainly does and many others I’ve been in.

My last office was a recent new build and didn't have automatic doors. I also visited quite a lot of other companies' offices in the course of my work, most were pretty new and none of them had automatic doors. Personally I've never seen them except on trains.

Edit: Anyhow, on the train front I think the automatic doors are because accessible toilets need to have outward opening doors if they are manual, and this is not really practical on trains for space and safety reasons.

 

[BenBracken]

Didn’t the 175’s have automatic sliding doors? And the 150’s and 153’s that have had the PRM conversion? All seem far more reliable than the 197’s?

 

[Krokodil]

Edit: Anyhow, on the train front I think the automatic doors are because accessible toilets need to have outward opening doors if they are manual, and this is not really practical on trains for space and safety reasons.

The Swiss ones slide

 

[158822]

Are the 197s being tested on the Cambrian line this week meant to be returning to Shrewsbury at some point or are they staying at Machynlleth?

 

[tfw756rider]

Are the 197s being tested on the Cambrian line this week meant to be returning to Shrewsbury at some point or are they staying at Machynlleth?

Returning to Shrewsbury on:

Realtime Trains | 3C04 1635 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs | 06/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C04 1635 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs on 06/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(dep. Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs 1635 Fri 6/5/25, arr. Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs 1830 Fri 6/5/25)

After doing one night to Aberystwyth and three nights to Pwllheli:

Realtime Trains | 3C00 2230 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Aberystwyth | 02/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C00 2230 departure from Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Aberystwyth on 02/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(dep. Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs 2230 Mon 2/5/25, arr. Aberystwyth 0036 Tue 3/5/25)

Realtime Trains | 3C01 0325 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 03/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C01 0325 departure from Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 03/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(dep. Aberystwyth 0325 Tue 3/6/25, arr. Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs 0414 Tue 3/6/25) - I've been advised though that departure from Aberystwyth may be immediately after arrival at 0036 (hours earlier than the 0325 scheduled departure time).

Realtime Trains | 3C02 0050 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli | 04/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C02 0050 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli on 04/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(dep. Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs 0050 Wed 4/6/25, arr. Pwllheli 0220 Wed 4/6/25)

Realtime Trains | 3C03 0230 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 04/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C03 0230 departure from Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 04/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(dep. Pwllheli 0230 Wed 4/6/25, arr. Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs 0414 Wed 4/6/25)

Realtime Trains | 3C02 0050 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli | 05/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C02 0050 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli on 05/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(dep. Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs 0050 Thu 5/6/25, arr. Pwllheli 0220 Thu 5/6/25)

Realtime Trains | 3C03 0230 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 05/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C03 0230 departure from Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 05/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(dep. Pwllheli 0230 Thu 5/6/25, arr. Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs 0414 Thu 5/6/25)

Realtime Trains | 3C02 0050 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli | 06/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C02 0050 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli on 06/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(dep. Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs 0050 Fri 6/6/25, arr. Pwllheli 0220 Fri 6/6/25)

Realtime Trains | 3C03 0230 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 06/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C03 0230 departure from Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 06/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(dep. Pwllheli 0230 Fri 6/6/25, arr. Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs 0414 Fri 6/6/25)

 

[158822]

Thanks

 

[Jez]

Seems like there is 46 197s out today if ive worked it out correctly. 20 x 3 car and 26 x 2 car. A few short formed on the South Wales to Manchesters and a 158 was covering one of the Liverpool diagrams. Plus there was a 3 car covering a MK4 diagram which would have impacted things.

 

[BillStampy]

Seems like there is 46 197s out today if ive worked it out correctly. 20 x 3 car and 26 x 2 car. A few short formed on the South Wales to Manchesters and a 158 was covering one of the Liverpool diagrams. Plus there was a 3 car covering a MK4 diagram which would have impacted things.

It won't help that by the looks of it one may need to cover another MK4 tomorrow as HD05 has hit a cow!

 

[Krokodil]

It won't help that by the looks of it one may need to cover another MK4 tomorrow as HD05 has hit a cow!

Loco or DVT? There's more likely to be a spare loco about than a spare set of coaches at the moment.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Loco or DVT? There's more likely to be a spare loco about than a spare set of coaches at the moment.

DVT.

 

[Krokodil]

DVT.

Uh-oh...

 

[Last Hurrah]

HD02 had a mishap last week . .

Was that Loco end or DVT ? if it’s the Loco, can’t they swop its DVT with HD05 DVT which has bovine issue, to get a set back in service

 

[Bletchleyite]

HD02 had a mishap last week . .

Was that Loco end or DVT ? if it’s the Loco, can’t they swop its DVT with HD05 DVT which has bovine issue, to get a set back in service

It was the DVT.

Can you top/tail 91s?

 

[LowLevel]

It was the DVT.

Can you top/tail 91s?

No, you need the DVT I think, the mk4 coaches don't have any draw gear for coupling to a loco except at the block end and on the DVT I don't think. It's also got various bits of equipment in it.

 

[tfw756rider]

It was the DVT.

Can you top/tail 91s?

No, you need the DVT I think, the mk4 coaches don't have any draw gear for coupling to a loco except at the block end and on the DVT I don't think. It's also got various bits of equipment in it.

Also, 91s wouldn't do much on Transport for Wales Or do you guys mean 67+Mk4s+(91 as a "DVT")?

 

[Peter Sarf]

It was the DVT.

Can you top/tail 91s?

Well erm no.
There are no wires on most of the route .

I think the solution would be to always have a 67 at each end with the DVT safely between loco and the rest of the set.
I say this because I feel there are more spare 67s than DVTs.
Depends if a 67 can talk with the cab end of a DVT.

Drifting off topic so......
Does a 197 have a more robust front (rear) end ?.
Or are cows etc more likely to see it coming ?.
Or does a 197 have better brakes with no heavy weight (67) pushing it into things ?.
I ask because it feels like the alternative to 197s is a magnet to hapless cows.

 

[D6975]

I took a trip over to Cardiff on Mon 2 June. I was there for about 7 hours and during that time I only saw ONE 5 car 197. One Manchester was a 2 car and was, unsurprisingly wedged.

 

[50002Superb]

I assume he means that LNER top and tail 91s and loan their DVTs to TfW

 

[craigybagel]

I think the solution would be to always have a 67 at each end with the DVT safely between loco and the rest of the set.
I say this because I feel there are more spare 67s than DVTs.
Depends if a 67 can talk with the cab end of a DVT.

Drifting off topic so......
Does a 197 have a more robust front (rear) end ?.
Or are cows etc more likely to see it coming ?.
Or does a 197 have better brakes with no heavy weight (67) pushing it into things ?.
I ask because it feels like the alternative to 197s is a magnet to hapless cows.

You can couple a 67 to the DVT but you'll lose the extra functionality that you get with the mods that were put in for the TfW 67s to run with MKIVs, like interlock and driver/guard buzzer.

Lots of trains have struggled with cows over the years, including those more modern than a MKIV DVT. But I wouldn't it expect it to damage that will take a long time to fix.

 

[tfw756rider]

So far, 197029+197035 have run to Aberystwyth on the Aberystwyth night, but they turned back at Harlech on the first Pwllheli night.

Hopefully, as tests and measurements progress, that'll save time and they'll be able to run further North on the second and third Pwllheli nights.

Edit: Something really strange has happened. Even though 197029+197035 turned back at Harlech, Realtime Trains (RTT) is showing that they went on to Pwllheli, but they definitely turned back at Harlech, as 1) I saw it happen on the OpenTrainTimes Cambrian map, and 2) they didn't go through Porthmadog, where I was all night. I've never ever seen anything like this - does anyone know the (likely) reason that RTT is showing these particular false reports? Maybe you know, @Tom? RTT is great, but this is utterly baffling.

 

[Class15]

So far, 197029+197035 have run to Aberystwyth on the Aberystwyth night, but they turned back at Harlech on the first Pwllheli night.

Hopefully, as tests and measurements progress, that'll save time and they'll be able to run further North on the second and third Pwllheli nights.

Edit: Something really strange has happened. Even though 197029+197035 turned back at Harlech, Realtime Trains (RTT) is showing that they went on to Pwllheli, but they definitely turned back at Harlech, as 1) I saw it happen on the OpenTrainTimes Cambrian map, and 2) they didn't go through Porthmadog, where I was all night. I've never ever seen anything like this - does anyone know the (likely) reason that RTT is showing these particular false reports? Maybe you know, @Tom? RTT is great, but this is utterly baffling.

This will in no way by RTT’s fault. A signaller will have put the times in manually considering the way the Cambrian is signalled, I don’t know why though.

 

[SWML9102]

The catering cupboard on 197024 has been decorated with food images. First one I've seen like this. Looks better than the plain stainless steel doors. No food though!

 

[tfw756rider]

This will in no way by RTT’s fault. A signaller will have put the times in manually considering the way the Cambrian is signalled, I don’t know why though.

Oh yeah I know, Realtime Trains is great but it can only work with what data it's given. I did wonder if (bold) was the case. It's weird - made-up times

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2025 ==

The catering cupboard on 197024 has been decorated with food images. First one I've seen like this. Looks better than the plain stainless steel doors. No food though!

Maybe the food will come another two-and-a-bit years later

 

[Jez]

The catering cupboard on 197024 has been decorated with food images. First one I've seen like this. Looks better than the plain stainless steel doors. No food though!

I noticed that when i was on 197024. Looks good. Now we just need the food to be served!

 

[tfw756rider]

So far, 197029+197035 have run to Aberystwyth on the Aberystwyth night, they turned back at Harlech on the first Pwllheli night and they turned back at Porthmadog on the second Pwllheli night (the schedules have Pwllheli reports on them again, but they did turn back at Porthmadog).

Hopefully they'll run to Porthmadog or even Pwllheli on the third and "final" Pwllheli night.

 

[Peter Sarf]

So far, 197029+197035 have run to Aberystwyth on the Aberystwyth night, they turned back at Harlech on the first Pwllheli night and they turned back at Porthmadog on the second Pwllheli night (the schedules have Pwllheli reports on them again, but they did turn back at Porthmadog).

Hopefully they'll run to Porthmadog or even Pwllheli on the third and "final" Pwllheli night.

Fingers crossed these turn-backs before the end of planned route are not entirely unplanned. After all, for this week, there have been three return trips planned to Pwllheli vs only one to Aberystwyth.

 

[tfw756rider]

Fingers crossed these turn-backs before the end of planned route are not entirely unplanned. After all, for this week, there have been three return trips planned to Pwllheli vs only one to Aberystwyth.

Yeah, exactly. I'd be surprised if they don't make it to at least Porthmadog (again), if not Pwllheli.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2025 ==

Edit: In the end, 197029+197035 ran to Aberystwyth on the Aberystwyth night, then they turned back at Harlech on the first Pwllheli night, then turned back at Porthmadog on the second Pwllheli night, and then actually ran all the way to Pwllheli on the third Pwllheli night.