4 aspect signals controlled by lever frame?

[DistantAR3]

Is there anywhere where a 4 aspect signal is controlled by a lever frame?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Is there anywhere where a 4 aspect signal is controlled by a lever frame?

Haslemere and Winsford, for a little while at least!

 

[jfollows]

Stockport 1&2 & Edgeley Junction 1&2

 

[DistantAR3]

Haslemere and Winsford, for a little while at least!

How did it even work?

 

[edwin_m]

The lever frame won't actually be controlling the aspects. If the lever is reversed to clear the signal and various other conditions are satisfied, it will display an aspect that depends on the aspect of the next signal.

 

[DistantAR3]

The lever frame won't actually be controlling the aspects. If the lever is reversed to clear the signal and various other conditions are satisfied, it will display an aspect that depends on the aspect of the next signal.

Ah, thank you.

 

[swt_passenger]

For info a drawing of Haslemere with 4 aspect signalling in 1938 can be found by following the link in this recent post:

Resignalling between Woking and Havant (updates?)

I can't find a recent thread for this but wondered how long Farncombe, Haslemere and Petersfield signal boxes have got left before Basingstoke ASC takes over Many thanks

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Notabene]

New Bridge at Pickering

 

[bluegoblin7]

I know that what is meant here is 'full-sized levers', but both Harrow-on-the-Hill (inc. subs) and Rickmansworth control 4-aspect signalling with manual, mechanical, miniature lever frames. Technically speaking Amersham, Chalfont & Latimer and Watford South Junction are also controlled by levers, specifically remote-controlled V-style interlockings.

 

[exsignalman]

On the down Chat Moss at Astley (AY2)(AY3) signals

 

[Wyrleybart]

The lever frame won't actually be controlling the aspects. If the lever is reversed to clear the signal and various other conditions are satisfied, it will display an aspect that depends on the aspect of the next signal.

That is exactly how I understand it, not being totally signalling minded. As thirteen year old my dad sent me off to some family friends in Northampton, he being a bobby at Northampton No 4. He was afternoon shifts that week and we drove as far as we could then walked the rest of the way to the box which was opposite the Downside yard. From memory Northampton No 4 fringed with Rugby PSB in the west and Noirthampton No 2 then No 1 in the east - pretty sure No 3 had already closed before then.
The hourly passenger service of AM10s tootled by but most of there rest was freight, parcels etc.

IIRC there was one controlled signal on the down - No 2 and three in the Up - Nos 84 83 and 82 which needed to be cleared to give the train a run, but I never really did try to understand the correlation to the panel. I was more interested in watching and listening to the class 40 on 6B30 and 6G30 the Esso oil train, or the numerous class 25s scurrying around, including "the ducks" which was the Aylesbury tripper.

So I am assuming that the route between Northampton station and Rugby was four aspect signalling, and yes, Northampton No 4 was an LNWR style box, however it had a conventional lever frame rather than the traditional LNWR levers with those funny stirrup things. Obviously a lot of the levers were "cut down" meaning they electric rather than manual, but I recall No 64 being a heavy pull - a crossover used to get stuff in and out of the Downside yard.

 

[jfollows]

Attached is my plan of the Northampton area when the four signal boxes still existed.

Three aspect signals, actually. Your memory is pretty good. 84 up was auto. I show signal numbers but not point numbers in my plan.

My plan also predates your memories since the plan includes No. 3 box, so some things could have changed.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Attached is my plan of the Northampton area when the four signal boxes still existed.

Three aspect signals, actually. Your memory is pretty good. 84 up was auto. I show signal numbers but not point numbers in my plan.

My plan also predates your memories since the plan includes No. 3 box, so some things could have changed.

Thanks very much for that "Jfollows" . Perhaps I just assumed four aspect signalling was the go to for the WCML modernisation.
That really is a nicely drawn set of diagrams. Did you hand draw them ?
also didn't release No 2 on the down had a repeater.

Thanks again for rekindling some memories !!

 

[jfollows]

That really is a nicely drawn set of diagrams. Did you hand draw them ?


Thanks again for rekindling some memories !!

Yes, back in the day I managed to borrow the official resignalling diagrams at electrification, so I came up with a style for copying them by hand, and then the diagrams have survived house and country moves since then.

The Market Harborough line closed in 1981, but anyway I went to university in 1980 and I drew the plans before I left home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

See also https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/pullfree.asp?FilePath=ArchiveSignals\Downloads\brmr&FileName=1965-141g.pdf

This was probably the source for my hand-drawn diagram.

 

[Deepgreen]

I know that what is meant here is 'full-sized levers', but both Harrow-on-the-Hill (inc. subs) and Rickmansworth control 4-aspect signalling with manual, mechanical, miniature lever frames. Technically speaking Amersham, Chalfont & Latimer and Watford South Junction are also controlled by levers, specifically remote-controlled V-style interlockings.

The same principle but in miniature - perfectly valid here, I think.

 

[BS59]

Yes, back in the day I managed to borrow the official resignalling diagrams at electrification, so I came up with a style for copying them by hand, and then the diagrams have survived house and country moves since then.

The Market Harborough line closed in 1981, but anyway I went to university in 1980 and I drew the plans before I left home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

See also https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/pullfree.asp?FilePath=ArchiveSignals\Downloads\brmr&FileName=1965-141g.pdf

This was probably the source for my hand-drawn diagram.

Just to let vou know the diagram from no 4 box is preserved. . Signal NN4 111 was in fact a controlled signal at the time of closure not sure if it ever was a auto. Regards Kevin.

 

[jfollows]

Just to let vou know the diagram from no 4 box is preserved. . Signal NN4 111 was in fact a controlled signal at the time of closure not sure if it ever was a auto. Regards Kevin.

AUTO in the 1965 notice I linked to, but that's not to say that's what happened or it wasn't changed later, interesting.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Just to let vou know the diagram from no 4 box is preserved. . Signal NN4 111 was in fact a controlled signal at the time of closure not sure if it ever was a auto. Regards Kevin.

Fascinating. I hope it gives some people memories.
Is the diagram in a public place ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2025 ==

The Market Harborough line closed in 1981, but anyway I went to university in 1980 and I drew the plans before I left home.

Was there much traffic over the line that late ?
From my afternoon memories from 1976 I don't really remember much off the main lines. There were the "little London" AM10s up and down every hour, a fair bit of through freight, mostly freightlniers and cartics. There was a fuel train from Bromford Bridge to Northampton which was a class 40, that required the crossovers to get in and out of the Down yard, also the "Ducks" which was the Aylesbury tripper with a class 25. I don't remember much happening on the Upside at all and don't think there was anything towards Market Harborough. In fact what would the next signal box be to Northampton No 4 ?

Thanks again for those fifty year old memories !!!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Stockport 1&2 & Edgeley Junction 1&2

And Heaton Norris (part of the "Stockport 5").

 

[jfollows]

Fascinating. I hope it gives some people memories.
Is the diagram in a public place ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2025 ==


Was there much traffic over the line that late ?
In fact what would the next signal box be to Northampton No 4 ?

Thanks again for those fifty year old memories !!!

Broughton Crossing next box towards Market Harborough in 1965 from the link in post #14.
2m356y
then
Spratton LC
Lamport Ironstone Siding (abolished prior to line closure)
Lamport LC
Kelmarsh
Clipston & Oxendon LC
Little Bowden LC
Market Harborough
Speed limit 30mph

Not much traffic. Lots of jobs to be removed!
In 1970 there was 1S24 21:00 sleeper Euston-Glasgow which had used to start from Saint Pancras and went Settle-Carlisle, 1M98 in the up direction, of course loco change at Northampton (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/thames-clyde-express-in-the-1970s.264956/page-3#post-6735267).

 

[Gloster]

Broughton Crossing next box towards Market Harborough in 1965 from the link in post #14.

Not much traffic.
In 1970 there was 1S24 21:00 sleeper Euston-Glasgow which had used to start from Saint Pancras and went Settle-Carlisle, 1M98 in the up direction, of course loco change at Northampton (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/thames-clyde-express-in-the-1970s.264956/page-3#post-6735267).

By 1972 there was a News to Nottingham, a couple of parcels trains, some ECS that look like stock being worked to works and the odd freight. There may have been a few Conditional trains.

 

[jfollows]

And Heaton Norris (part of the "Stockport 5").

Thank you, yes, for some reason part of my brain thought it was an OCS panel, but it’s not, lots of nice levers!

 

[Unobrow]

Attached is my plan of the Northampton area when the four signal boxes still existed.

Three aspect signals, actually. Your memory is pretty good. 84 up was auto. I show signal numbers but not point numbers in my plan.

My plan also predates your memories since the plan includes No. 3 box, so some things could have changed.

That’s brilliant! I’m working that area this week so will be looking at the changes and trying to see where things once were.

 

[BS59]

Just to let vou know the diagram from no 4 box is preserved. I have it . Signal NN4 111 was in fact a controlled signal at the time of closure not sure if it ever was a auto. Regards Kevin.

AUTO in the 1965 notice I linked to, but that's not to say that's what happened or it wasn't changed later, interesting.

I bought it from collectors corner soon after the box closed and restored it . Lots of grey paint had to be removed which covered points, sidings and certain signals which had been removed over the years. Thats when i noticed signal 111 had it's auto plate painted over and showed a red aspect which had been painted over the yellow one. I did not make a note of the new signal number it had been given.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I bought it from collectors corner soon after the box closed and restored it . Lots of grey paint had to be removed which covered points, sidings and certain signals which had been removed over the years. Thats when i noticed signal 111 had it's auto plate painted over and showed a red aspect which had been painted over the yellow one. I did not make a note of the new signal number it had been given.

Interesting stuff
Sadly I was only 14 at the time so didnt make notes andf didn't have a camera. Just remember we drove down the dirt trak as far as we could go in his blue Hillman Avenger (I think), then walked the rest of the way. I have a feeling we left the car somewhere near the previous box. Which one had been closed ? Was it No2 or No3 out of the sequence No 4 - No 1. Incidentally I think all those boxes were on the up side of the track, but is that relevant ?

 

[Lucy1501]

Just to let vou know the diagram from no 4 box is preserved. . Signal NN4 111 was in fact a controlled signal at the time of closure not sure if it ever was a auto. Regards Kevin.

The copy I have shows it as an auto with replacement switch. I assume if it was converted, it would be on a switch panel due to the high numbering?

Fascinating. I hope it gives some people memories.
Is the diagram in a public place ?

Here’s some photos of a rather faded office copy of the box diagram I came across. It’s not dated, but with the amount of amendments I’d imagine it would be accurate to near the end.

 

[jfollows]

Interesting stuff
Sadly I was only 14 at the time so didnt make notes andf didn't have a camera. Just remember we drove down the dirt trak as far as we could go in his blue Hillman Avenger (I think), then walked the rest of the way. I have a feeling we left the car somewhere near the previous box. Which one had been closed ? Was it No2 or No3 out of the sequence No 4 - No 1. Incidentally I think all those boxes were on the up side of the track, but is that relevant ?

From https://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/Northampton_No3.html

Northampton No3. signal box​

Northampton No.3 was opened by British Railways on 1st November 1981. The box, a London Midland Region Type 15 design and the frame, an 83 lever Westinghouse Brake & Signal Co. Ltd. Style 'L' Power lever frame was moved from Bedford North. The frame was a refurbished section of the 167 lever frame from Cannon Street signal box, which was in turn part of a 227 lever 'L' frame (frame number 97) purchased by London, Midland & Scottish Railway in case of war damage.

When opened, the box replaced the previous Northampton No.3 signal box which was fitted with a 58 lever London & North Western Railway 'Tumbler' frame. On 3rd December 1982 Northampton No.2 signal box, which was fitted with a 118 lever London & North Western Railway 'Tumbler' frame, was closed and it's area of responsibility was taken over by Northampton No.3

The intention was for the box to take over the whole area including Northampton Bridge Street Crossing but this never took place and eventually the whole area except Bridge street was taken over by Rugby PSB, this will change again soon when Rugby PSB closes and the area becomes controlled by Rugby SCC.

Northampton No.3 frame was configured to take over the whole of the Northampton area but it only managed to take over the old Northampton No3 area and Northampton No2 area.

The box was closed on 28th July 1991 when Rugby PSB took over signalling of the area.

So Northampton No. 2 was the first to go, at the end of 1982.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Thanks for that link.
My memory must be playing tricks on me.
I was under the impression that one of the four boxes, either No 2 or No 3 had been closed by the time I visited in August 1976. But obviously I was there before the New No 3 with the old ex Bedford type 15 box had been installed and commissioned.

Obviously the former LNWR box was there in 1976 and here is the caption from a Flickr photo of it

Northampton No.3​

Northampton No3 signal box was situated just north of the station and this 58 lever LNWR structure was replaced by a more rudimentary box on June 7 1981 in a slightly different location which itself only existed for 10 years being closed on July 29 1991 along with No's 1 and 4 boxes when Rugby took over signalling control of the area.... 86210 passes on a southbound train.​

Something else has just occurred to me. The levers in the frame of No 4 boc were of the "traditional" type with the clasps behind the levers. RThis merasns presumably that the frame was modified at some point from the original LNWR style levers with the stirrups.

 

[Belperpete]

I know that what is meant here is 'full-sized levers', but both Harrow-on-the-Hill (inc. subs) and Rickmansworth control 4-aspect signalling with manual, mechanical, miniature lever frames. Technically speaking Amersham, Chalfont & Latimer and Watford South Junction are also controlled by levers, specifically remote-controlled V-style interlockings.

I think the last miniature lever frame left on Network Rail is Maidstone East. I would be surprised if this doesn't have four aspect signals. But jt is a style L frame, with all-electric locking, i.e. no mechanical locking between levers.

 

[MarkyT]

I think the last miniature lever frame left on Network Rail is Maidstone East. I would be surprised if this doesn't have four aspect signals. But jt is a style L frame, with all-electric locking, i.e. no mechanical locking between levers.

Immingham Reception Sidings still has a slide frame, though is Associated British Ports property rather than NR.