Delay Repay Investigation - please help

[Ian40]

I have received a letter stating from Northern I have submitted an unusual amount of claims over an 16 month period totalling a high amount - approx £400

I travel at least 5 days a week to work but have a flexible working policy which means I can work the hours I feel as long as I work full hours across the week, so my shift times would vary each day depending on the cancellations

I’ve now been sent a letter to attend an interview and bring a solicitor if I wish. They have also added if I wish to send in an explanation or evidence then to do so but if they are not satisfied with explanation they may still take legal action.

I am unsure what to do, would they be expecting evidence for every single claim? There is a lot - over 100. I have some taxi receipts but what other evidence would they be looking for ?

Is there a way I can offer to repay the money without this going any further ? this would be my preferred way to move forward as I have so much anxiety about this and very overwhelmed

thank you so much for any help

 

[SuspectUsual]

I suppose the simple question to begin with is this - is every delay repay claim you've made genuine and legitimate, and you did physically catch the trains concerned?

 

[Mike99]

Do you mean £4,000 ?

 

[Haywain]

I have received a letter stating from Northern I have submitted an unusual amount of claims over an 16 month period totalling a high amount

Does this refer to Delay Repay compensation claims or refunds for unused tickets?

 

[Titfield]

Is there a way I can offer to repay the money without this going any further ?

This rather suggests some of the claims were not legitimate.

Did you scan your tickets in and out for each use as this would provide evidence of being at the station(s).

 

[AlterEgo]

I have received a letter stating from Northern I have submitted an unusual amount of claims over an 16 month period totalling a high amount - approx £400

How many claims are there in total?

 

[Ian40]

Around 150 claims
Totalling
£400 not £4,000
It was an annual ticket and used smart card but stations did not always have barriers so did not always scan in or out

 

[AlterEgo]

It’s high but not impossible. If you haven’t defrauded them, I would either rebut the allegations with a single sentence reply, or decide not to reply.

 

[sheff1]

It’s high but not impossible. If you haven’t defrauded them, I would either rebut the allegations with a single sentence reply, or decide not to reply.

150 claims over 16 months is 2 or 3 a week on average. Perfectly possible if travelling daily on Northern with their 15 min threshold, especially west of the Pennines where the service has often been in meltdown.

Agree with your second sentence, but the OP should carefully consider these questions:

- is every delay repay claim you've made genuine and legitimate, and you did physically catch the trains concerned?

Does this refer to Delay Repay compensation claims or refunds for unused tickets?

 

[Ian40]

it all refers to delay repay claims
I’ve never refunded an unused ticket as bought either monthly or annual tickets

 

[Southern Beau]

You’ve mentioned taxi receipts as a source of evidence. I don’t believe delay repay would be paid where you used alternative transport to complete your journey?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2025 ==

If there has been no fraudulent claims, the “intention” to travel will be a very interesting element to prove.

When I’ve questioned this with another TOC they have literally said “intent” is based on a customers word. I gave the scenario where I have an hourly service and buy a ticket at the station for most journeys. I asked if I could see my train was cancelled, do I need to be at the station (or even in possession of a ticket) at the time of the cancelled train. They clearly said “no” and asked for clarification several times

 

[SuspectUsual]

I’ve never refunded an unused ticket as bought either monthly or annual tickets

I repeat my previous question - is every delay repay claim you've made genuine and legitimate, and did you physically catch the trains concerned?

 

[Ian40]

If for example, on Monday I finished work to catch the 5pm train but it was cancelled so caught the 5.30 and claimed delay for the cancelled 5pm one

Then on Tuesday I planned an earlier finish, I caught the 5pm train as the 4.30pm was cancelled , so also claimed delay for that

What would the guidance be on these being “legitimate” claims ? And how could one prove or disprove this (either way?)

 

[Titfield]

The problem is that when the time of the train you say you are going to catch varies and then those trains are cancelled, a different interpretation can be placed on your actions.

Do you actually turn up at the station for those trains and then discover they are cancelled or do you "discover" this just before you are about to leave the place of work?

 

[AlterEgo]

I am being cautious with my responses , not to be rude but more cautious - I am currently trying to review every journey to check they were accruately submitted

If for example, on Monday I finished work to catch the 5pm train but it was cancelled so caught the 5.30 and claimed delay for the cancelled 5pm one

So when you say:

my shift times would vary each day depending on the cancellations

do you mean "my story is that my shift would conveniently finish when I saw a cancelled train"?

If Northern were to look at all your delay repay claims, might they suspect that it was very convenient that your shift always finished so you could claim delay repay?

This sort of behaviour is a tale as old as time and a fraudster can get away with it until they get too greedy; eventually someone will manually review the claims.

It was an annual ticket and used smart card but stations did not always have barriers so did not always scan in or out

Which stations are involved? (This is quite important as it will give an indication as to how reasonable Northern's suspicions are)

When you say "did not always have barriers", do you mean "I travel between the two stations on my season ticket and sometimes the barrier at one or both is open" or do you mean "There are lots of stations involved, some have barriers and some don't"?

Only you know if you've been fiddling the system, but your responses don't really come across like someone who is entirely innocent. Quite frankly, if I'd been inconvenienced 150 times by a train company and then THEY had to cheek to accuse ME of fraud, I would robustly defend myself. I think most people would be very cross about that and not just want to pay £400 to make it all go away.

 

[Titfield]

Approx 616 journeys with 150 claims = a delay repay claim rate of a shade under 25%.

Were you ever delayed on the outward journey or just the return legs?

 

[Southern Beau]

If for example, on Monday I finished work to catch the 5pm train but it was cancelled so caught the 5.30 and claimed delay for the cancelled 5pm one

Then on Tuesday I planned an earlier finish, I caught the 5pm train as the 4.30pm was cancelled , so also claimed delay for that

What would the guidance be on these being “legitimate” claims ? And how could one prove or disprove this (either way?)

The proof here is a very vague “intention to travel”. I used to live on a Northern Rail line with a horrific level of delays/cancellations on weekends, and often early morning services.

I queried with Northern why the service was so poor and they sent a cut and paste response and use delay repay. I replied and said this would be considerable claims and they replied with “that’s what delay repay is for”. My point is that my claims were very frequent and I asked them to clarify the “intent” element which they were happy to do

 

[SuspectUsual]

If we confined our analysis to trains leaving between say 4pm and 6pm, would we find that every day on which at least one of them was delayed enough to reach the DR threshold, or cancelled completely, you found yourself intending to catch that train?

 

[enyoueffsea]

I travel at least 5 days a week to work but have a flexible working policy which means I can work the hours I feel as long as I work full hours across the week, so my shift times would vary each day depending on the cancellations

You can easily provide proof to rebut the claims from Northern then, assuming all of this is legitimate.

I’m assuming a flexible arrangement like this would use a laptop or IT system? Or maybe a clocking in and out or timesheet at work?

If you claimed delay repay on the 5pm service, they’ll see from records supplied by you that you logged off/clocked out at a time suitable for you to travel to the station and be on the platform ready to catch that train.

Any advice you are offered on this forum is subject to you being entirely honest otherwise members will not be able to assist you fully or may inadvertently give the wrong advice to your circumstances.

 

[Egg Centric]

If for example, on Monday I finished work to catch the 5pm train but it was cancelled so caught the 5.30 and claimed delay for the cancelled 5pm one

Then on Tuesday I planned an earlier finish, I caught the 5pm train as the 4.30pm was cancelled , so also claimed delay for that

What would the guidance be on these being “legitimate” claims ? And how could one prove or disprove this (either way?)

There is some wooliness here. I am quite open** that I try to maximise the probability of my delay repay on tickets*. But if you play this game then imo you absolutely must be scrupulously honest about it. You can't "plan" an early/late finish that just coincidentally works out but you decide to do something else looking at train times. That's a load of crap. You must actually finish early/late and turn up to the station raring to go at the appropriate time.

Have you got any proof of either turning up at the stations at the appropriate times or planning these early/late finishes in such a convenient way? The numbers you're talking about do not sound plausible.

* A game possibly going to end now that we've sold out and coming under dreary corporate expense policies

** For anyone who does want to do what the OP claims to do and maximise use of flexible working to get delay repay - which I have no problem with in principle - learn from this thread and document it obsessively; this might be easy if you brag about the free money to your workmates . There's nothing in the rules stopping you from being purposely delayed, but you absolutely must be delayed.

 

[sheff1]

You can easily provide proof to rebut the claims from Northern then, assuming all of this is legitimate.

I’m assuming a flexible arrangement like this would use a laptop or IT system? Or maybe a clocking in and out or timesheet at work?

If you claimed delay repay on the 5pm service, they’ll see from records supplied by you that you logged off/clocked out at a time suitable for you to travel to the station and be on the platform ready to catch that train.

I don't see that would work.
If you are aiming to finish at 1650 to catch the 1700 train but, when checking at 1645, you see the 1700 is cancelled so carry on working, your recorded 'log off' would be 1720 when you left to catch the 1730.

I return to:

If you haven’t defrauded them, I would either rebut the allegations with a single sentence reply, or decide not to reply.

 

[Southern Beau]

You must actually finish early/late and turn up to the station raring to go at the appropriate time.

You do not need to be “at” the station in time for the cancelled train to claim delay repay (for that times train)

 

[AlterEgo]

A lot of dancing on the head of a pin here; in the aggregate, over 100 plus claims, if the claims look very suspicious and follow a very convenient pattern, then the OP will have trouble defending them. You end up looking like the Rob McKenna of train delays.

 

[Egg Centric]

You do not need to be “at” the station in time for the cancelled train to claim delay repay (for that times train)

Technically true but you absolutely need to be making the old college try to take it at some point even if that's hours before it happens (if you see what I mean).

1. Scenario - you have booked a specific train beforehand. You find out a few minutes before getting to the station that it's not going to be there. So you stay on a bit later at work and claim delay repay. Fine.
2. Scenario - you have not booked a specific train beforehand and love delay repay. You take a look at realtimetrains or similar and see a train is cancelled. So you leave work making a good faith attempt to catch that train (even though you know it's cancelled) and if it happens to be put back on or a special stop order is put in or similar you take your medicine and take it. Otherwise happy days. Fine.
3. Scenario - you have not booked a specific train beforehand and also love delay repay. You take a look at realtimetrains or similar and see a train is cancelled. So you tell work you're leaving, then see it's still cancelled so no point in taking it, then change your mind back again and work give you back your shift. All of this in the same femtosecond. This is dodgy as hell.

A lot of dancing on the head of a pin here; in the aggregate, over 100 plus claims, if the claims look very suspicious and follow a very convenient pattern, then the OP will have trouble defending them. You end up looking like the Rob McKenna of train delays.

Or put more succinctly, this

 

[Southern Beau]

Scenario - you have not booked a specific train beforehand and also love delay repay. You take a look at realtimetrains or similar and see a train is cancelled. So you tell work you're leaving, then see it's still cancelled so no point in taking it, then change your mind back again and work give you back your shift. All of this in the same femtosecond. This is dodgy as hell.

I specifically gave this type of scenario to northern ( be it first train of the day and being at home / in bed), and they clearly said “you do not need to be at the station at the time of the cancelled train to make a claim”.

 

[AlterEgo]

I specifically gave this type of scenario to northern ( be it first train of the day and being at home / in bed), and they clearly said “you do not need to be at the station at the time of the cancelled train to make a claim”.

If you always take the 0700 train and it is cancelled half the time, and you claim for it having not been at the station, that’s fine. “Yes that’s my usual train to work. I start work every day at 0800. Ask my employer. It’s a terrible service”

If you say you vary how you work and your intention was to take the 1400, 1730, 1615, 1930, and 1530 over a week and they all happen to be cancelled, may I wish you good luck in a police interview. There’s a reason train companies wait until you get to 100 plus claims; it’s always reasonably obvious just by looking at the data who is just claiming based of train running data.

You would get customers who were so obviously on the make with it that you could look at RTT, see the 1645 was the only one that was cancelled that day, and bet a month’s wages a certain passenger would claim for it.

 

[enyoueffsea]

I don't see that would work.
If you are aiming to finish at 1650 to catch the 1700 train but, when checking at 1645, you see the 1700 is cancelled so carry on working, your recorded 'log off' would be 1720 when you left to catch the 1730.

I return to:

Possibly so which would also be good evidence to submit to evidence the delay. What it wouldn’t show due to these claims being legitimate, of course, is the OP claimed for delay repay for the 5pm service but didn’t log off until 7pm, missing four other services after the claimed for 5pm.

 

[WesternLancer]

Is there a way I can offer to repay the money without this going any further ? this would be my preferred way to move forward as I have so much anxiety about this and very overwhelmed

I see the issue has been ranged over with advice an info from people here who have sound and relevant knowledge and the issues have been rehearsed so you can see how things probably look to the railway's investigators.

But just seeking to bring this back to your key question as here as above, in case people here can help address this point further and specifically

It's a tricky one to answer because we don't know how the train company might react if you offer to do this (being mindful of the implied admission that some of your claims were not entirely legitimate that is inherent in making such an offer to repay the money), but you could try to offer that with a carefully worded letter

or you could engage a specialist rail fares solicitor (2 or 3 regularly get mentioned on the forum and from the feedback we see from people who use them they do generally get good results) - that could cost you c£750+ in fees to the solicitor - to handle this for you

My instinct is you should try to avoid attending an interview with them (or not without a solicitor present - which would cost even more in legal fees I would think due to the time involved), nor do you want to discuss it on the phone with them - my view on this is that verbal discussions risk having to answer questions that might end up unintentionally incriminating yourself.

It maybe that the Railway just wants to send a warning shot across your bows about your D-R claim patterns and behaviour, and likely wants any money back they have paid that you are not actually owed.

With that in mind you could write in simple terms, not admitting anything, but saying eg 'if you believe that any of my claims are not legitimate then I would be happy to repay any funds owed, please let me know which claims this involve and how I can make a payment to you' - if you were to draft such a letter I'd suggest getting your wording checked here before you send it to them so experts here can give any advice

But as I say I'm not an expert in this - so I'd welcome the thoughts of other forum members on taking such an approach.

Of course your desire to pay for a solicitor or not might be weighed up against what job you have, what salary you get, and what the consequences for that job / future career and earning potential might be were this to progress to some sort of court action against you instigated by the railway company that had career limiting consequences. £1k or so is a lot of money but it's perhaps not so much when set against a year or more's lost salary.

I hope these thoughts help.

 

[enyoueffsea]

We really need to see the correspondence from them to be able to provide advice on any response.

 

[Tevion539]

Is it safe to assume OP no longer wishes to receive advice at this moment in time given their lack of response despite logging in?