Advance tickets on London suburban trains

[JamesDrew]

I’m making a return trip today Wimbledon to Norwich on advance single tickets. On the return leg I caught the specified 14:30 from Norwich. However, the advance ticket specifies the 17:17 from Waterloo to Wimbledon which is an hour after my arrival into Liverpool Street! I got to Waterloo for the 16:36 but am not sure if I’m liable for a fine in the unlikely event of having my ticket checked? (I usually use contactless for Waterloo to Wimbledon and this is the first time I’ve had an advance ticket that has specified a train time for the Waterloo to Wimbledon leg of the journey).

Any advice as to whether I’m wrong not to have waited for 41 minutes? Thanks

 

[ainsworth74]

Because the industry has basically at this point hacked various systems together rather than having a proper retail system capable of coping with modern demands you should travel as booked on your itinerary as the SWR service is "reservable".

There is a desire amongst many TOCs to offer Booked Train Only Advance tickets on their trains, including many operators who historically did not bother with such things, this has meant that seat reservations have been enabled on those trains (even though no reservations exist) to allow for such a train to become able to support Advances.

The, I think, unintended consequence of this is that passengers making long distance journeys who, once upon a time, would have been required to take a specific long distance service but were only given a suggested connecting service are now required to travel exactly as their itinerary suggests because, technically speaking, they have been reserved onto a specific connecting service.

This is obviously nonsense, who cares what train you use between Waterloo and Wimbledon there's one every few minutes(!), but technically enforcable. I believe some TOCs have said that they don't are which of their trains you use in such circumstances but I'm not sure if SWR is one of them so to be sure of a safe journey either use contactless or travel as booked.

Hopefully at some point the industry might see sense and upgrade it's systems so that passengers can be booked onto a specific long distance service but have flexibility on the connecting service again.

 

[Sonic1234]

This is obviously nonsense, who cares what train you use between Waterloo and Wimbledon there's one every few minutes(!), but technically enforcable. I believe some TOCs have said that they don't are which of their trains you use in such circumstances but I'm not sure if SWR is one of them so to be sure of a safe journey either use contactless or travel as booked.

That's GTR who have a policy saying they disregard the booked service when using an "&Connections" advance. GTR are bad for making their suburban services reservable, because they sell longer-distance Advances on these services so they show as reservable. Also stops them having connecting passengers, which they probably make about 50p from, on their busy morning services.

At a station like Wimbledon, you can probably use the forum's booking site to set your connecting service to an unreservable "metro" service, then it won't appear on a paper ticket. Or "via Tulse Hill" to use Thameslink to Wimbledon (Sutton Loop services are unreservable).

My rate of having my ticket checked within the London Zones, excluding gatelines, is about once per 6 years.

 

[tram21]

My rate of having my ticket checked within the London Zones, excluding gatelines, is about once per 6 years.

But you don't want to encounter a revenue block (which is quite common on SWR) and to meet a RPO which is a jobsworth (if its not allowed. You'd probably be best asking SWR on social media/ at the ticket office)

 

[JonathanH]

At a station like Wimbledon, you can probably use the forum's booking site to set your connecting service to an unreservable "metro" service

It doesn't look like such a thing exists on SWR any more. All services now marked as "Reservations Available".

 

[JamesDrew]

But you don't want to encounter a revenue block (which is quite common on SWR) and to meet a RPO which is a jobsworth (if its not allowed. You'd probably be best asking SWR on social media/ at the ticket office)

Thankfully all went smoothly but in future to be on the safe side I’ll use contactless and get an advance ticket just for the longer leg of the journey.

Out of interest, if I had been stopped by a ticket inspector could I have proffered my usual contactless debit card rather than the (apparently invalid) advance ticket? (I can’t see how they could ascertain whether the debit card had been tapped in at Waterloo?)

 

[JonathanH]

Out of interest, if I had been stopped by a ticket inspector could I have proffered my usual contactless debit card rather than the (apparently invalid) advance ticket?

No, you would have a failed revenue inspection if the Contactless card is inspected and isn't touched in. (Clearly the inspection would be passed, but the back office processing will identify that the card isn't touched in.)

 

[DelW]

I've grumbled about this before on these forums. Cross London itineraries specify a ridiculously long time interval - in excess of an hour between arrival at Euston and departure from Waterloo is typical. The result is that, to comply with pointless rules, you're forced to watch several suitable trains depart before the one you're obliged to use. It's even stupider in the afternoon, when this pushes you onto busier trains.

It's so annoying that I've given up using advances across London - I either split tickets in London or I use flexible tickets. Of course, this means the railway gets more revenue from me, so it's unlikely to be changed anytime soon. Especially on SWR, where passengers' convenience and satisfaction has never seemed to be any sort of priority.

 

[Sonic1234]

Thankfully all went smoothly but in future to be on the safe side I’ll use contactless and get an advance ticket just for the longer leg of the journey.

It's always worth checking the price of through tickets compared to using contactless for the suburban leg. There are some very good value through tickets (even some which are cheaper than the fare to/from London Terminals). Of course, a through ticket may give you the problems above.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

Out of interest, if I had been stopped by a ticket inspector could I have proffered my usual contactless debit card rather than the (apparently invalid) advance ticket? (I can’t see how they could ascertain whether the debit card had been tapped in at Waterloo?)

You get charged a max fare of £9.40 - the highest fare within the zonal system. You'd pass the inspection though, unless your card was blocked for another reason, such as having 2 (I think?) inspections before while not tapped in or a payment being refused previously because of insufficient funds.

 

[talldave]

It's always worth checking the price of through tickets compared to using contactless for the suburban leg. There are some very good value through tickets (even some which are cheaper than the fare to/from London Terminals). Of course, a through ticket may give you the problems above.

It's also worth checking the price of through tickets to somewhere you're not going, to minimise the cost of the "to London" leg of the journey before using contactless for the remainder.

 

[317 forever]

I've grumbled about this before on these forums. Cross London itineraries specify a ridiculously long time interval - in excess of an hour between arrival at Euston and departure from Waterloo is typical. The result is that, to comply with pointless rules, you're forced to watch several suitable trains depart before the one you're obliged to use. It's even stupider in the afternoon, when this pushes you onto busier trains.

It's so annoying that I've given up using advances across London - I either split tickets in London or I use flexible tickets. Of course, this means the railway gets more revenue from me, so it's unlikely to be changed anytime soon. Especially on SWR, where passengers' convenience and satisfaction has never seemed to be any sort of priority.

By way of an example, in 2012 I got an Advance from Stockport to Southampton via London. It was not a Virgin/West Coast plus connections ticket as such, but did specify which SWT train I was supposed to get.

I arrived 5 minutes early for the previous train to Southampton but had to let it go, then keep to the one on my ticket.

 

[miklcct]

Hopefully at some point the industry might see sense and upgrade it's systems so that passengers can be booked onto a specific long distance service but have flexibility on the connecting service again.

How do you define which leg is the long distance leg, and which leg is the local leg? I think that the only feasible solution is to fully introduce train categories. Under the current system, I can obtain a Greater Anglia & connections Advance Single with reservation only on the GTR leg, because the Greater Anglia train is unreservable. (With train categories, the GTR leg from Kings Cross to Ely will be an Inter-regional train and the Greater Anglia leg will be a Regional train.)