White Rose station: Objections, alternatives, missed opportunities?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In earlier discussions of this proposed station (going back some years!) I'd described the White Rose Centre in not particularly positive terms, but over the last few years the centre has been substantially improved. With retail not what it was there's a greater focus on restaurants and entertainment. Admittedly it's a very different sector but perhaps greater involvement of the team behind these changes would bear better results, they've proved they can manage a project successfully at least.

Would the clientele visiting for restaurants and entertainment be numerically smaller/the same/greater than when retail was the original raison d'etre for this new railway station?

 

[skyhigh]

Would the clientele visiting for restaurants and entertainment be numerically smaller/the same/greater than when retail was the original raison d'etre for this new railway station?

Retail was not the single original 'raison d'etre' for the new station.

 

[Crossover]

Would the clientele visiting for restaurants and entertainment be numerically smaller/the same/greater than when retail was the original raison d'etre for this new railway station?

Retail was not the single original 'raison d'etre' for the new station.

Moreover, I don’t believe the station is that close to the shopping centre anyway? Certainly not accessible in the way the likes of Meadowhall is, for example

 

[YorksLad12]

Moreover, I don’t believe the station is that close to the shopping centre anyway? Certainly not accessible in the way the likes of Meadowhall is, for example

It's a 5-minute walk from platform 4 at Meadowhall to the nearest entrance (about 3 minutes from P1). From the location of White Rose Station to the nearest door at the centre, I reckon (or Google Maps does, anyway) it's 9 minutes. Along a footpath that mostly doesn't exist.

 

[Roast Veg]

From the location of White Rose Station to the nearest door at the centre, I reckon (or Google Maps does, anyway) it's 9 minutes. Along a footpath that mostly doesn't exist.

The best walking route should be alongside the tracks as far as the zebra crossing into the car park, then past the children's play area. That path was completely overgrown when I tried it some months ago.

Any suggestion that this station is for the white rose shopping centre (as opposed to the white rose office park) is nonsense. The tram stop will serve the shopping centre, with the poor connection to the railway station that entails.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Moreover, I don’t believe the station is that close to the shopping centre anyway? Certainly not accessible in the way the likes of Meadowhall is, for example

Apologies, I keep forgetting that the station is primarily sited to serve the business park... mostly because like probably 95% of the population I've never had cause to visit a random trading estate on the edge of Leeds but have visited the shopping centre on many occasions.
I still think the station should have been better integrated into the mall, either by being built closer or by construction of a covered pedestrian walkway. Even better if the bus station was also relocated* and served by this pedestrian walking route, a bit like the sky bridges at Meadowhall Interchange.

*= The White Rose Centre bus station is a bit marooned now that the former Debenhams unit (now Marks & Spencer) no longer has an exit onto the bus station. Being tucked away at the end of the mall it's also a bit of a hotspot for low-grade antisocial behaviour.

 

[bluenoxid]

Ideally, the station would be closer to the White Rose Centre. Potentially, they should pick up the phone with whoever supplied Leeds Bradford Airport with those extended bus shelters.

Bus journey times and reliability are pretty poor in Leeds. I wouldn’t rule out people using the train to get to the White Rose with cost and the originating departure point/previous connecting vehicle being a driver on choices.

 

[Roast Veg]

Bus journey times and reliability are pretty poor in Leeds. I wouldn’t rule out people using the train to get to the White Rose with cost and the originating departure point/previous connecting vehicle being a driver on choices.

Without a better walking route, I doubt it. Most arrivals by bus will be by under 18s and over 65s, both of whom will probably have started their journey on a bus.

 

[YorksLad12]

The best walking route should be alongside the tracks as far as the zebra crossing into the car park, then past the children's play area. That path was completely overgrown when I tried it some months ago.

That’s the route I was thinking of.

*= The White Rose Centre bus station is a bit marooned now that the former Debenhams unit (now Marks & Spencer) no longer has an exit onto the bus station. Being tucked away at the end of the mall it's also a bit of a hotspot for low-grade antisocial behaviour.

A bus driver pulled up, let passengers board, then got off to urinate in the corner. In the middle of the day. Next to the seating. Problem for a different thread (or even forum).

Ideally, the station would be closer to the White Rose Centre. Potentially, they should pick up the phone with whoever supplied Leeds Bradford Airport with those extended bus shelters.

The whole thing is a mess. In the 11 years since the CA was formed, most of the old PTE people have left or retired.

Build a £30m rail station that is neither near housing in Cottingley nor next door to the shopping centre, then decide to build a tram to the centre’s front door. Genius.

I’ve yet to see how people who used to use Cottingley will get to the new station, given that there’s a busy A road to cross, plus a hillside to walk down and up.

I hate to sound like Captain Grumpy, but it would not have been a priority in my day.

 

[Crossover]

Apologies, I keep forgetting that the station is primarily sited to serve the business park... mostly because like probably 95% of the population I've never had cause to visit a random trading estate on the edge of Leeds but have visited the shopping centre on many occasions.
I still think the station should have been better integrated into the mall, either by being built closer or by construction of a covered pedestrian walkway. Even better if the bus station was also relocated* and served by this pedestrian walking route, a bit like the sky bridges at Meadowhall Interchange.

*= The White Rose Centre bus station is a bit marooned now that the former Debenhams unit (now Marks & Spencer) no longer has an exit onto the bus station. Being tucked away at the end of the mall it's also a bit of a hotspot for low-grade antisocial behaviour.

Ah, don’t get me started on the bus station! I don't know the whys and wherefores of why M&S don’t have an entrance there but I feel like it should have been contractually obliged to do so in taking over the unit.

Re the railway station, it ideally would be something vaguely Meadowhall like to better serve the shopping centre

 

[quantinghome]

Re the railway station, it ideally would be something vaguely Meadowhall like to better serve the shopping centre

The curve made that very difficult, and less convenient for access from Churwell. Ultimately there is no ideal place to put a station in the area, and the selected location is the best (or least worst) position given the various constraints and sources of passenger demand.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Ah, don’t get me started on the bus station! I don't know the whys and wherefores of why M&S don’t have an entrance there but I feel like it should have been contractually obliged to do so in taking over the unit.

Re the railway station, it ideally would be something vaguely Meadowhall like to better serve the shopping centre

I suspect that the bus station access was closed for security reasons. Presumably there was nothing in the contract preventing this, or it was renegotiated when M&S took the unit on.
From M&S's perspective, having that entrance in place means additional security staff and equipment, and impacts store layout. It would mean increased footfall (as bus users would walk through to access the mall) but any additional revenue generated won't necessarily cover the additional costs including greater losses through theft. The M&S unit has an additional exit to the car park upstairs, and the staff all seem hyper-vigilant* to it being used by would-be shoplifters. The bus station exit would be an absolute nightmare for staff.

Of course, closing the entrance just increases the other problems with the bus station, but that isn't the retailer's responsibility.
Something akin to Meadowhall Interchange would be ideal, but I'm not sure how we could get anywhere near there from where we are now.

*= The other week I visited the mall and parked close to this entrance, using it to access the mall via M&S as I needed to visit Timpsons at that end of the shopping centre. However I neglected to pick up the keys I was having duplicated from my glove compartment, which meant I was seen by the staff entering, then leaving, then re-entering in the space of just a few minutes. The swiftness with which the staff engaged with me suggests that they're used to organised gangs targeting that exit as a "weak spot".

 

[xotGD]

Name the station "White Rose Business Park" and then people will stop thinking it is there primarily to serve the shopping centre.

Just like East Midlands Parkway and the airport.

 

[Spartacus]

I'm still convinced it was at least partly a sop to the various businesses in the area, primarily the WRC, to not oppose the clean air zone which would have originally have included the area. It might at least explain why there's a station being built which only adequately serves the smallest group of potential users.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Name the station "White Rose Business Park" and then people will stop thinking it is there primarily to serve the shopping centre.

Just like East Midlands Parkway and the airport.

Have any recent official discussions been held in relation to the station name that will be carried? The inconvenience to residents that the footbridge will cause that has been mentioned in a recent posting is also something the community should be "up in arms" about.

 

[Mister_v4]

Any updates?

Last I heard was
May 2025
West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) leaders are expected to agree extra cash for the scheme at a meeting next week.
WYCA said the sum, yet to be disclosed, could see the new station opened by January 2027.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

WYCA said the sum, yet to be disclosed, could see the new station opened by January 2027.

Is that a useful use of the non-committal word "could".

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Any updates?

Last I heard was
May 2025
West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) leaders are expected to agree extra cash for the scheme at a meeting next week.
WYCA said the sum, yet to be disclosed, could see the new station opened by January 2027.

8 May 2025:

RESOLVED:-
(i) That the Combined Authority gave approval to funding to close out legacy issues to enable the project to move forward towards re-mobilisation, as set out in the exempt Appendix 1 of the submitted report.
(ii) That a further report be submitted to a future meeting of the Combined Authority, setting out a project plan and funding strategy for scheme completion.

The completion of the station, or at least removal of Cottingley, is integral to the Trans Pennine Route upgrade and the suggestion was that White Rose and Cottingley had to be 'dealt with' in order to allow completion of that section of TRU. Urgent like.
Note: there is nothing legally preventing Cottingley closing prior to White Rose (or without it ever) opening. Morally and politically may be a different matter.

From the WYCA report:

3.16 A critical rail dependency that has emerged has been the requirement for Cottingley Station to be closed to tie in with the completion of the TransPennine Route Upgrade (TRU) upgrade on this stretch of line (end of 2026). The consequence of this is that, through Network Rail, a piece of work was commissioned to be undertaken by the TRU upgrade team to support the Combined Authority in understanding the key issues and explore potential options for completing the scheme with associated high-level costs.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has any decision been reached concerning the fate of the footbridge of Cottingley station, that appears to be used as a right of way by local residents?

 

[Grumpy]

Has any decision been reached concerning the fate of the footbridge of Cottingley station, that appears to be used as a right of way by local residents?

There was a footbridge there before the station

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There was a footbridge there before the station

Was it the same footbridge that's now used as the station footbridge?

Either way, the issue is that that footbridge does not offer sufficient clearance for overhead wires and isn't PRM compliant. The delay to White Rose (which would have rendered the problem moot) means that things get awkward when it comes to timescales. If the footbridge has to be replaced rather than just removed (if the closure or reduction of services to Cottingley is delayed) then presumably it would have to be fully accessible unless a derogation could be applied for due to the unusual circumstances at play here.

A Pilning solution could be adopted (simply remove the footbridge and only serve Cottingley in the Huddersfield direction) in the short term, but that'll be a hard sell if it were to happen before White Rose is completed.

Insofar as the footbridge being used as a right-of-way by non-rail-users, I'm not sure this is a designated right-of-way though if it predates the station opening that would suggest it is. If so, then an alternative will need to be provided but this doesn't necessarily require a footbridge- just a footpath leading to the nearby road which passes underneath the railway.

 

[YorksLad12]

Insofar as the footbridge being used as a right-of-way by non-rail-users, I'm not sure this is a designated right-of-way though if it predates the station opening that would suggest it is. If so, then an alternative will need to be provided but this doesn't necessarily require a footbridge- just a footpath leading to the nearby road which passes underneath the railway.

I think I've mentioned earlier that the distance between the two platforms without the bridge is about 1 mile. It's actually more than that; Google thinks a footpath exists next to the bridge over Elland Road which Streetview says isn't there. A new footpath down the hill, alongside the railway line, would be expensive and isolated - a compliant, modern (ugly!) footbridge would be the better option.

 

[Grumpy]

Was it the same footbridge that's now used as the station footbridge?

I can't say- last time I used it the land to the West was all being used to grow Rhubarb.
I suspect it is, as the West Yorks PTE tried to get maximum benefit from their budget so didn't spend money unnecessarily. Many of their new stations were sited near to existing road bridges or footbridges.
As the station opened in the late 80's wouldn't a new footbridge have had to be built to take possible electrification into account?
Looking at the Leeds Council footway map, the bridge seems to form part of a definitive byway

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I can't say- last time I used it the land to the West was all being used to grow Rhubarb.
I suspect it is, as the West Yorks PTE tried to get maximum benefit from their budget so didn't spend money unnecessarily. Many of their new stations were sited near to existing road bridges or footbridges.
As the station opened in the late 80's wouldn't a new footbridge have had to be built to take possible electrification into account?
Looking at the Leeds Council footway map, the bridge seems to form part of a definitive byway

Would there have been any anticipation of the route being wired back in 1988 when the station opened? Were the clearances back then a little tighter than they are today?

Remember that in 1988 the ECML wires had only been finished to Leeds that year, and work starting on Airedale and Wharfedale was still half a decade away. Provincial and WYPTE between them had just funded a load of new diesel units, with more (the 158s) on the way.

 

[Mister_v4]

Bit of a nothing BBC post, but being left in the darkness has been questioned.

Lessons to be learned over stalled White Rose Station - mayor

The White Rose Station in Leeds has been in limbo since contractors walked off the site in 2024.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mister_v4]

A bit of a nothing post... again, but Tracy Brabin was ask on Radio Leeds for an update.

"I am desperate to sort this out. I know the longer it stays closed the more it is going to cost us.
"It was an agreement before my time as mayor and, quite frankly, we'd never do this again in the way we are doing it."
Work stopped on the White Rose station in Leeds in 2024. It is a project jointly funded by the West Yorkshire Combined Authority and private company Munroe K.
The mayor hopes contractors will be back in 2026 - but she says she cannot promise.

West Yorkshire mayor says too many families are 'working poor'

Tracy Brabin talks to Radio Leeds about the Budget, COP30 and taxing tourists.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Djgr]

A nothing bit of a nothing post... again, but Tracy Brabin was ask on Radio Leeds for an update.

West Yorkshire mayor says too many families are 'working poor'

Tracy Brabin talks to Radio Leeds about the Budget, COP30 and taxing tourists.

www.bbc.co.uk

Lessons to be learned over stalled White Rose Station - mayor

The White Rose Station in Leeds has been in limbo since contractors walked off the site in 2024.

www.bbc.co.uk

"When the White Rose Station project was given the go-ahead in summer 2021, it was supposed to set an example of how infrastructure could be built quicker.

It was one of Network Rail's "Project SPEED" schemes - which stands for "swift, pragmatic, efficient, enhancement and delivery".

...which only goes to show that coming up with clever mnemonic acronyms does not guarantee optimal project management!

 

[xotGD]

Lessons to be learned over stalled White Rose Station - mayor

The White Rose Station in Leeds has been in limbo since contractors walked off the site in 2024.

www.bbc.co.uk

"When the White Rose Station project was given the go-ahead in summer 2021, it was supposed to set an example of how infrastructure could be built quicker.

It was one of Network Rail's "Project SPEED" schemes - which stands for "swift, pragmatic, efficient, enhancement and delivery".

...which only goes to show that coming up with clever mnemonic acronyms does not guarantee optimal project management!

Slow, protracted, endless, expensive, doomed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Think less shopping centre and more business park, which is pretty much adjacent to the station

What is the likely total passenger footfall that might be expected from the business park? How well is the business park served by car parking and of the car users, would many be happy to give up a direct from home to office car journey and change to a methodology of using a mode of travel which begins with having to travel by some method from their home address to a railway station in order to travel by rail and having the same problem on the evening return journey.

 

[xotGD]

What is the likely total passenger footfall that might be expected from the business park? How well is the business park served by car parking and of the car users, would many be happy to give up a direct from home to office car journey and change to a methodology of using a mode of travel which begins with having to travel by some method from their home address to a railway station in order to travel by rail and having the same problem on the evening return journey.

I used to work at the business park pre-Covid and commute by train to Cottingley then walk. Maybe 2 or 3 others did the same on a good day. Of course, the bus station is much closer as a public transport option. At least one company there used to provide a dedicated bus from the city centre.

White Rose station will be more attractive than Cottingley for commuters, but I don't see huge use, especially with a sparse service.