Potential new West London Orbital route

[greatkingrat]

Many people use the Overground even if it is slower to avoid zone 1 fares, or if they don't like deep tubes.

 

[Meerkat]

An option I havent seen suggested is for the entire Overground service from Clapham Junction to use the existing curve just south of Willesden Junction (without platforms) and reverse at a new single bay platform between the lines at Acton Wells Junction, before heading up the Dudding Hill line to Harlesden (Bakerloo interchange) and Hendon. The entire Overground service from Stratford would call at the nearby new pair of platforms before heading half to Richmond and half to Hounslow. Thus all Overground services would call at 3 nearby platforms (with one set of staff), and all services towards South Acton would use one platform instead of two different ones, and all services towards Gospel Oak would use one platform instead of two different stations a kilometre apart .

This would end using the WLL as a transfer between Willesden lines and Clapham, and those on the Willesden lines and Shepherds Bush Westfield.

 

[MarkyT]

Here's my interpretation of the track and signalling proposals for the Acton area that were included in TfL's presentation to the Permanent Way Institute, linked upthread:

The Mildmay line platforms are illustrated. Existing TfL services are simulated, including Mildmay and the proposed WLO trains, some of which terminate in the new bay proposed. Long, cross-London freight trains snake across the junctions and weave around the passenger services.

It generally works very well, but if I leave the sim running long enough, eventually this happens or something similar. While such a deadlock could occur today theoretically if signallers made a mistake in accepting two long trains whose paths mutually conflict in the closely spaced junction area, the impact on passenger services will be multiplied once frequent new WLO trains are launched.

I have an alternative suggestion that avoids this. The link between Acton Canal Wharf and WCML would be extended as an independenat single line to Acton Wells Junction with standage over 800m so a complete maximum length freight could be held clear of junctions at both ends.

Both Dudding Hill lines would be diverted via either side of the new island platform construction on the west side, including a centre accessed inset terminal bay at the north end. This would avoid a separate side platform to the east entirely. I have illustrated this in a speculative thread here https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-overground-station-at-old-oak-common.284358/.

 

[Class15]

Even Highbury and Islington is much faster to reach by taking SWR to Vauxhall and the Victoria line from there, and as for anywhere further along on the line, the time savings of going via Vauxhall or Waterloo Tube are even bigger. An hour and five minutes to Stratford is not attractive when you can do it in half an hour via Waterloo and the Jubilee.

Really sorry but that’s not how it works. Many, many people use the overground for long distances, such as me regularly between West Brompton and Gospel Oak. Yes it would probably be quicker to go via Embankment and the northern line but the overground is more pleasant, easier and cheaper (avoids zone 1). I speak as a daily user of the ‘Mildmay line’.

 

[Mr. SW]

I've had occasion not use the Underground. I had, a few years ago, reason to travel between West London and the East Midlands. The obvious ways were to take the South West Trains line into Vauxhall and change onto the Victoria Line to get to St Pancras. Or go into Heathrow Airport and take the Piccadilly.

On the way back, time was not so pressing, so I would take the Thameslink to West Hampstead, stroll down the road to the Overground station, go to Richmond and take SWT for the rest of the way. Longer, but far more pleasant than the deep tube.

 

[kevin_roche]

If I have luggage, the Overground is often easier than struggling up and down steps on the tube. I often carry a bag full of camera gear, and I always prefer to be able to look out of the window at something other than a tunnel wall.

 

[Questaware]

Where is the actual FOI request with the document?

At Tfl.gov.uk FOI-2681-2425/GH

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

I don’t see the detailed plans from Mott McDonald in the video?

from tfl.gov.uk FOI-2681-2425/GH

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

At Tfl.gov.uk FOI-2681-2425/GH

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==


from tfl.gov.uk FOI-2681-2425/GH

I got the FOI as a share from tfl.
Unfortunately I cannot find the URL for the share which might have expired anyway.
You could request the share again from tfl.
I will add the reference number to the video.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

Please view:

It would cost only about £500m to do this but it would reduce the common journey times by 50%,
increase the ridership by 100%.

The ridership on the Greenford Branch halved when trains stopped going to Paddington.

This would reverse that effect.

 

[zwk500]

Please view:

It would cost only about £500m to do this

I'm not sure if it's just me, but the audio on that video is incredibly quiet, however you don't need the commentary to see how this is going to cost far, far more than £500m to build.

The slide showing the slue of the fast lines at Ealing Broadway requires moving the southern boundary of the GWML further south, including the overbridges which are tight up to the limits. The Kink in the Down Slow is also not suitable at all for the existing line speeds, although that may be less of a problem when OOC happens.

The slide showing the layout at West Ealing clearly shows the bay track being extended through a road bridge, so we're talking several properties being demolished (including the station) and the road bridge being reconstructed.

The slide showing the layout at Acton Wells Jn includes a signalling plan (drawn to scale) that clearly shows there simply isn't room for the alternative proposed set of platforms between the turnout ends.

And that's before we look at scheduling or performance.

The only likely option for any connectivity between WLO and the GWML would be to build out a platform on the westbound Goods Line and convert it into a reversible passenger platform.

 

[Mr. SW]

A dedicated walking route between the proposed Old Oak Lane/Victoria Road and North Acton Stations will suffice for nearly all journeys. Anywhere else you'd take the bus or trundle across to the Liz Line. A few hundred pounds for some directional signs instead of a gazillion quid on infrastructure work.

 

[miklcct]

And even if it was possible, I don't think people on the Clapham branch would be very happy about swapping direct trains to Camden/Highbury/Stratford for direct trains to Harlesden and Hendon.

I will be extremely upset if this is done, unless there is a same-platform interchange at Willesden Junction high-level and the frequencies improved to every 7-8 minutes on all routes. I heavily rely on the existence of this orbital route to travel between NW London and the whole SW. This link is extremely important, especially to access places like Hampstead Heath or Gospel Oak where the tube doesn't serve.

From Clapham Junction, this link is useful to at least Caledonian Road & Barnsbury; from Kensington (Olympia), this link is useful all the way to Stratford. Therefore it can't be broken in any meaningful ways.

 

[Metrider]

Any excitement for the West London Orbital?

From a bit of Googling, it looks like this might actually go ahead at some point. If it coincides with the completion of the Old Oak Common station, it would provide some excellent new connectivity in the north west of London - allowing interchange between Metropolitan/Jubilee, Bakerloo, Central, Elizabeth line and Mildmay, and even the Thameslink! All without going into central London.

It also feels like it would be relatively good value for money by reusing existing freight lines (although I must admit, when the figures get into hundreds of millions I'm not sure how to quantify "good value"!).

 

[ijmad]

There's been a lot of chatter in the press today about it potentially getting approved next month.

London is set for a new £700 million Overground line

Say hello to the West London Orbital

www.timeout.com

TfL wants the West London Orbital (WLO) to receive backing from the government in its autumn budget. If it gets approved, the line will become the seventh branch of the London Overground network.

Just as the name suggests, the WLO would bring new rail connections to north and west London, travelling from Hounslow to Hendon and West Hampstead via Old Oak Common..

London’s Transport Network Could Soon Be Getting A New £700 Million Overground Line

If Transport for London's proposed plans get the green light, west London could be getting a shiny new Overground Line soon.

secretldn.com

The new line on the block would connect Hounslow with Hendon and West Hampstead via the likes of Brentford, Acton, Harlesdon, Neasden, Cricklewood, and Brent Cross – meaning that Londoners wishing to make the journey would no longer have to do so via a slightly inconvenient detour through the centre of the city...

No idea how accurate this reporting is, but seems promising.

Personally, I haven't lived in West London for a long time now , soI'm not sure anecdotally how much this line would be used. I'm sure TfL have done their demand studies. One thing it does is make the case for building the Old Oak Common Victoria Road connection, which seems like a genuinely useful connection between various parts of South West London, North London and the Elizabeth Line.

One thing I do wonder about is the level crossings on Bollo Lane and how much the additional services are going to upset the locals, going from roughly 10 closings per hour to 20 or more seems like it could create difficulties, will the barriers be open long enough to make Bollo Lane even passable?

 

[Rail101]

There's been a lot of chatter in the press today about it potentially getting approved next month.

London is set for a new £700 million Overground line

Say hello to the West London Orbital

www.timeout.com

London’s Transport Network Could Soon Be Getting A New £700 Million Overground Line

If Transport for London's proposed plans get the green light, west London could be getting a shiny new Overground Line soon.

secretldn.com

No idea how accurate this reporting is, but seems promising.

Personally, I haven't lived in West London for a long time now so I'm not sure anecdotally how much this line would be used. I'm sure TfL have done their demand studies. One thing it does is make the case for building the Old Oak Common Victoria Road connection, which seems like a genuinely useful connection between various parts of South West London, North London and the Elizabeth Line.

One thing I do wonder about is the level crossings on Bollo Lane and how much the additional services are going to upset the locals, going from roughly 10 closings per hour to 20 or more seems like it could create difficulties, will the barriers be open long enough to make Bollo Lane even passable?

Reading those articles it seems to be speculation on what might potentially happen. They're just saying here are the plans, TFL want the government to agree to fund them in the budget in November. They don't have any information on how likely or otherwise that is.

 

[Alxxxs]

Do you think it really makes sense to include a part of the Hounslow Loop Line into this route? It may still be faster for Isleworth and Brentford residents to get to OOC/Willesden Junction and onwards to West Hampstead via a bus to Gunnersbury. Hounslow rail station is significantly inferior to the Picadilly Line for most local residents as far as I understand it. I can’t imagine many people living in the Borough of Hounslow needing to go to Harlesden/Neasden/Cricklewood or Brent Cross.

 

[Farnborough]

Do you think it really makes sense to include a part of the Hounslow Loop Line into this route?

For me, terminating at Hounslow makes no sense... extending to Feltham (or even Staines) and Twickenham (or maybe Richmond) would make more sense to me.

 

[JonathanH]

For me, terminating at Hounslow makes no sense... extending to Feltham (or even Staines) and Twickenham (or maybe Richmond) would make more sense to me.

One of those instances where approval is obtained to do what is likely to be funded, and then consider extensions I suspect. Hounslow can be set up for terminating services. Feltham, Staines and Richmond all more difficult. Twickenham possible but ties up a platform.

 

[Mr. SW]

Hounslow has the space for reversal lines and even a little storage. Whilst it would make sense to extend to Feltham, that would be over two junctions and would mean a thorough rebuild of Feltham Station to provide extra reversing facilities. An extra relief running line may also be required between Feltham Station and Junction. Taking services round to Twickenham via Whitton are completely out of the question and would certainly require extensive infrastructure works.
As a one-time regular user of Feltham Station, I have considered this may times, staring out the window at the Sparrow Farm Estate.

 

[JonathanH]

Taking services round to Twickenham via Whitton are completely out of the question and would certainly require extensive infrastructure works.

Completely out of the question? Whilst it involves a lot of flat crossings, the line through Twickenham isn't that busy that an extension couldn't be considered. At least the turn back facilities already exist.

Hounslow, as you say, is a lot easier.

 

[Mr. SW]

It's probably quicker to take the 267 from Kew Bridge to Twickenham than go all the way round via Hounslow.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Do you think it really makes sense to include a part of the Hounslow Loop Line into this route? It may still be faster for Isleworth and Brentford residents to get to OOC/Willesden Junction and onwards to West Hampstead via a bus to Gunnersbury. Hounslow rail station is significantly inferior to the Picadilly Line for most local residents as far as I understand it. I can’t imagine many people living in the Borough of Hounslow needing to go to Harlesden/Neasden/Cricklewood or Brent Cross.

These considerations are why a new station linking to Old Oak Common are essential. That link will be by far the biggest reason people use this mooted new service.

 

[Metrider]

These considerations are why a new station linking to Old Oak Common are essential. That link will be by far the biggest reason people use this mooted new service.

And yet, information on that station seems quite hard to come by. I believe the station is proposed to be on Victoria Road, which would be a bit of a trek to OOC, even if they built a direct footbridge.

Old Oak Common Lane station (also new) looks like it will be closer, but that's not going to be on the WLO. For people like me coming in from North West London on the Metropolitan, it would probably be easier to either change to the Jubilee and come down on the Mildmay from West Hampstead, or even just stay on the Met until Finchley Road and change to the Mildmay there (with the bit of walking that comes with).

I've seen plans for the interchange at Neasden, and while that's out-of-station it at least looks like they're intending to build a nice colonnade to walk under in case it's raining. But yes, connectivity at OOC would be the main reason I would want to use this new line, so if it's not a good connection it wouldn't be so useful.

 

[Alxxxs]

These considerations are why a new station linking to Old Oak Common are essential. That link will be by far the biggest reason people use this mooted new service.

Yes but what I am saying is that the Mildmay Line which is also supposed to have a station at OOC is already well accessible from Brentford, Isleworth and even Hounslow to some extent.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2025 ==

How outdated is this? Shows the OOC station on the Mildmay Line but not on WLO.

 

[ijmad]

Yes but what I am saying is that the Mildmay Line which is also supposed to have a station at OOC is already well accessible from Brentford, Isleworth and even Hounslow to some extent.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2025 ==

How outdated is this? Shows the OOC station on the Mildmay Line but not on WLO.

From what I gather, it would be two additional platforms on the but still part of Old Oak Common Lane station.

 

[Neilandrewhall]

"TfL, four west London boroughs and OPDC will invest up to £6.65m to advance plans for the West London Orbital rail line linking Hendon and Hounslow. The proposed Overground route would add four stations, improve connections and could support 25,000 homes and 11,500 jobs"

Major funding deal puts London Overground ‘missing link’ on track for next phase

PN-161 TfL, four west London boroughs and the Old Oak & Park Royal Development Corporation have agreed to commit up to £6.65m to progress the next phase of innovative rail scheme Proposals link Hendon and Hounslow with a fully accessible London Overground line that would provide ten new...

tfl-newsroom.prgloo.com

 

[Snow1964]

I'm not sure if it's just me, but the audio on that video is incredibly quiet, however you don't need the commentary to see how this is going to cost far, far more than £500m to build.

The slide showing the slue of the fast lines at Ealing Broadway requires moving the southern boundary of the GWML further south, including the overbridges which are tight up to the limits. The Kink in the Down Slow is also not suitable at all for the existing line speeds, although that may be less of a problem when OOC happens.

The slide showing the layout at West Ealing clearly shows the bay track being extended through a road bridge, so we're talking several properties being demolished (including the station) and the road bridge being reconstructed.

The slide showing the layout at Acton Wells Jn includes a signalling plan (drawn to scale) that clearly shows there simply isn't room for the alternative proposed set of platforms between the turnout ends.

And that's before we look at scheduling or performance.

The only likely option for any connectivity between WLO and the GWML would be to build out a platform on the westbound Goods Line and convert it into a reversible passenger platform.

It is probably easier to bore a single track tunnel under the restricted width track formation and move one of the fast lines into it. The fast lines don't need access to any intermediate stations which makes it much cheaper

 

[Bald Rick]

"TfL, four west London boroughs and OPDC will invest up to £6.65m to advance plans for the West London Orbital rail line linking Hendon and Hounslow. The proposed Overground route would add four stations, improve connections and could support 25,000 homes and 11,500 jobs"

Major funding deal puts London Overground ‘missing link’ on track for next phase

PN-161 TfL, four west London boroughs and the Old Oak & Park Royal Development Corporation have agreed to commit up to £6.65m to progress the next phase of innovative rail scheme Proposals link Hendon and Hounslow with a fully accessible London Overground line that would provide ten new...

tfl-newsroom.prgloo.com

This is detailed feasibility.

 

[Snow1964]

How much of the Midland railway super outer circle stations still exist, (part of platforms, or buildings etc, even if closed up), if anything.

There were stations at Harlesden, Dudding Hill (long closed)

Lionel Road looks to be very close (maybe on site of) former Kew station on North and South Western junction railway. Old photographs (decades ago) suggest the third rail used to exist on this curve. Would Lionel Road station be a voltage changeover (to 25kv) point. Or will it be deemed not possible because it would mean extending third rail (even it is just reinstating it after decades)

 

[cle]

They should advance the NLL station at OOC regardless (this would be at a parallel island?) - it’s the most important piece of this. Arguably the only one.

Interesting to have dropped West Hampstead - I suppose it is duplicative in a way to the NLL, but it is also far more useful. And Neasden has the Jubilee to there so it’s not difficult I guess.

Brent Cross West hasn’t been a hit yet - hopefully the housing and population will advance. Otherwise I’d think this is better heading north, but trains would be slow vs TL - and how to cross the MML. I’d expect it remains in the safeguarded bay.

 

[Bumpkin]

How much of the Midland railway super outer circle stations still exist, (part of platforms, or buildings etc, even if closed up), if anything.

There were stations at Harlesden, Dudding Hill (long closed)

Lionel Road looks to be very close (maybe on site of) former Kew station on North and South Western junction railway. Old photographs (decades ago) suggest the third rail used to exist on this curve. Would Lionel Road station be a voltage changeover (to 25kv) point. Or will it be deemed not possible because it would mean extending third rail (even it is just reinstating it after decades)

My bold

I would assume that they would reinstate the third rail as NLL services already change supply at Acton Central and then head south to South Acton on third rail.

If they were to install OLE trains would have to change supply twice within a few minutes which just seems unrealistic

 

[greatkingrat]

Although no decision has been made, battery trains are a possibility which would mean that curve at Kew could remain unelectrified.