Digital fraud investigation

[Matysha]

Hello all, I need advice on how best to respond to this. It's my first time here. I received this email 3 days ago. I am a nurse and so scared of a conviction.

 

[SussexMan]

Hello all, I need advice on how best to respond to this. It's my first time here. I received this email 3 days ago. I am a nurse and so scared of a conviction.

Most likely this can be resolved without you ending up with a conviction, but some context would be helpful. At this stage we have no idea whether you were stopped and you didn't hold the correct tickets, or whether someone else was stopped but gave your details and you know nothing about this. What happened and where?

 

[Matysha]

On the 9th of May 2025, I was on my way to catch my connecting train when I encountered a ticket inspector who asked to see my train ticket. I showed him a digital copy of my ticket on my phone. He then requested my discount rail card because I had purchased the ticket at a discounted price. I presented a blurred faceless 16-25 discount rail card, and after looking it over, he informed me that my discount card had expired.

He asked if I had a digital copy of my rail card. When I checked my phone, I realized that my digital Network Rail card had also expired in February. The inspector pointed out this expiration, and I admitted that I was unaware of it.

I then asked the inspector what was going to happen and whether I could purchase a new train ticket at that point. He requested my consent to be video recorded, but I declined and told him that I did not want my video or pictures taken. The inspector then requested that his colleague attend to me.

When I approached the colleague, he asked for my identification, which I showed him, and he noted my details down. I was under the impression that I would receive a fine, but unfortunately, I later received an email from the fraud evasion team. I am attaching the train transaction and the email for reference.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 May 2025 ==

To clarify, the digital rail card on my phone was an expired national rail card, not a 16-25 rail card that I used to purchase my train ticket.

 

[John R]

Could you explain exactly what you mean by a blurred faceless 16-25 railcard? Why was it like that, and was it a hard copy card, an image on your phone, or what?

 

[Matysha]

It was a hard copy card that I wasn't entitled to but showed it because I panicked

 

[AlterEgo]

It was a hard copy card that I wasn't entitled to but showed it because I panicked

So this was not your card? How had the face been blurred?

What does the Network Railcard have to do with this?

How many times have you purchased 16-25 tickets using this railcard?

 

[AndroidBango]

How many times have you used tickets bought with this expired and/or dodgy railcard?

 

[Matysha]

I have used it for more than a year but not daily, i used it once or twice in a month.

 

[John R]

It was a hard copy card that I wasn't entitled to but showed it because I panicked

So yes, you have been committing fraud by showing a doctored card that doesn’t belong to you. It shows a clear intent not to pay the correct fare, and not just as a one off.

The good news is that train companies won’t typically pursue a fraud charge, but the lesser offence of not being in possession of a valid ticket. However, we find that in the majority of cases the situation can be resolved by an out of court settlement, which will cost you more than had you bought the right tickets in the first place, but is better than a conviction.

Having said that, the clear intent to defraud the railway may make it harder to get an out of court settlement offer.

 

[Matysha]

So yes, you have been committing fraud by showing a doctored card that doesn’t belong to you. It shows a clear intent not to pay the correct fare, and not just as a one off.

The good news is that train companies won’t typically pursue a fraud charge, but the lesser offence of not being in possession of a valid ticket. However, we find that in the majority of cases the situation can be resolved by an out of court settlement, which will cost you more than had you bought the right tickets in the first place, but is better than a conviction.

Having said that, the clear intent to defraud the railway may make it harder to get an out of court settlement offer.

Omg, does this mean a criminal conviction??

 

[AlterEgo]

Omg, does this mean a criminal conviction??

Probably not, because luckily for you train companies prefer to settle the case themselves, as long as you are honest with them. They will audit all your purchases and ask for the full Anytime fare for each and every time you defrauded them of money. Altering or doctoring a railcard to try and pass it off as your own is just straight-up fraud and if you do this in pretty much any other setting or industry they call the police.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Omg, does this mean a criminal conviction??

If you’re taken to court for a ticketing offence, it’s virtually certain based on what you’ve said that you’ll be found guilty. That means you’d have a criminal conviction.

However as others have said, if you cooperate with the train company and are totally honest with them, you should be able to settle out of court

 

[Titfield]

Omg, does this mean a criminal conviction??

Yes a conviction in a court means that you would receive a criminal record which given your profession would have to be reported to your regulator - the Nursing and Midwifery Council - and your employer.

Are you a member of a trade union who can give you advice?

You can be given advice here but you may prefer to get advice from your trade union however this forum has a good record of providing advice leading to railway ticketing issues being resolved out of court.

From the advice which expert forum member @Hadders gives in cases such as this, adapted for your circumstances.

Travelling without a valid ticket and presenting a tampered railcard is a criminal offence and the Train Operating Company are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. Generally speaking most Train Operating Companies are normally reasonable to deal with and will normally offer an out of court settlement as long as you co-operate with them, and haven't come to their attention before though they may be less likely to do so give the nature of your fare evasion.

I suggest a short, concise reply that mentions:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are offered an out of court settlement expect to have to pay the outstanding fares at the full Anytime rate, with no credit given for the invalid tickets you purchased in addition to an admin fee, typically £150. The train operating company will search your online ticket purchasing history to see if you have done this before and if this indicates you have done this before they will factor in the cost of these journeys into the settlement fee.

Paying a settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't. Only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction so you don't want to pay a fine, you want to pay a settlement!

Please post a redacted copy of the letter from the TOC in this thread, along with your draft reply, and forum members will proof read it for you.

Do not use AI to write the letter as such letters invariably sound insincere. You do not have to give or explain the reasons for your actions as it is understood to be saving money for one reason or another.

 

[Matysha]

Probably not, because luckily for you train companies prefer to settle the case themselves, as long as you are honest with them. They will audit all your purchases and ask for the full Anytime fare for each and every time you defrauded them of money. Altering or doctoring a railcard to try and pass it off as your own is just straight-up fraud and if you do this in pretty much any other setting or industry they call the police.

I I have now learned the hard way that there is no excuse. Should I wait to be summoned? The email requested a response if I have evidence, but since I do not have any and do not want to lie, what should my next step be? I have tried contacting solicitors, but they are asking for an upfront payment of £960.

 

[Titfield]

I I have now learned the hard way that there is no excuse. Should I wait to be summoned? The email requested a response if I have evidence, but since I do not have any and do not want to lie, what should my next step be? I have tried contacting solicitors, but they are asking for an upfront payment of £960.

Do NOT wait to be summonsed. You MUST respond.

Do NOT Lie but follow the advice in the earlier post.

Write a short, concise reply that mentions:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you post a draft on this forum experienced members will review it and suggest improvements.

EDIT

if you search this forum (button top right) you can find many examples of suitable draft responses you can use as a guide.

 

[Matysha]

Yes a conviction in a court means that you would receive a criminal record which given your profession would have to be reported to your regulator - the Nursing and Midwifery Council - and your employer.

Are you a member of a trade union who can give you advice?

You can be given advice here but you may prefer to get advice from your trade union however this forum has a good record of providing advice leading to railway ticketing issues being resolved out of court.

From the advice which expert forum member @Hadders gives in cases such as this, adapted for your circumstances.

Travelling without a valid ticket and presenting a tampered railcard is a criminal offence and the Train Operating Company are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. Generally speaking most Train Operating Companies are normally reasonable to deal with and will normally offer an out of court settlement as long as you co-operate with them, and haven't come to their attention before though they may be less likely to do so give the nature of your fare evasion.

I suggest a short, concise reply that mentions:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are offered an out of court settlement expect to have to pay the outstanding fares at the full Anytime rate, with no credit given for the invalid tickets you purchased in addition to an admin fee, typically £150. The train operating company will search your online ticket purchasing history to see if you have done this before and if this indicates you have done this before they will factor in the cost of these journeys into the settlement fee.

Paying a settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't. Only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction so you don't want to pay a fine, you want to pay a settlement!

Please post a redacted copy of the letter from the TOC in this thread, along with your draft reply, and forum members will proof read it for you.

Do not use AI to write the letter as such letters invariably sound insincere. You do not have to give or explain the reasons for your actions as it is understood to be saving money for one reason or another.

I am not a member of any trade union, so I would have to draft the letter myself. However, I am feeling scared and emotionally drained right now, making it difficult to think clearly. That’s why I have been searching for help. solicitors that don't over charge.

 

[AlterEgo]

I am not a member of any trade union, so I would have to draft the letter myself. However, I am feeling scared and emotionally drained right now, making it difficult to think clearly. That’s why I have been searching for help. solicitors that don't over charge.

You do not need a solicitor to settle this out of court. The company settles basically every case, but it will likely be expensive if you've bene doing this many times.

 

[Matysha]

You do not need a solicitor to settle this out of court. The company settles basically every case, but it will likely be expensive if you've bene doing this many times.

Thanks, I will draft the letter after looking at Samples. Is there a history of people that have done this without getting a conviction on this forum? This is my fear speaking out loud

 

[Pushpit]

I am not a member of any trade union, so I would have to draft the letter myself. However, I am feeling scared and emotionally drained right now, making it difficult to think clearly. That’s why I have been searching for help. solicitors that don't over charge.

I work in the NHS and part of my role is DBS related. I best not sugar coat this, it is serious, but it may be resolvable. What matters is full attention to the details and total, total honesty - this is a core competence of nursing. I imagine this is a huge shock, and the implications could be very serious. But - and it's a realistic but - it should be possible to negotiate your way out of this without a solicitor at this stage. If WMT shows signs of going towards a prosecution then later on a solicitor may be the best investment, given the long term financial impact this could have on you. However the wording of WMT's letter indicates they want to negotiate an out of court settlement, and that's in their interests as well as yours: WMT will get more money sooner and for less cost that way. It's a standard text, by the way.

Having said that, it's important to think clearly and you would be less than human if your best reply were to come today. If the email has been sent to you in the last day or two, you can hold back a reply for a day or two more in order to get the best possible reply to them. There is a formula in post 15 which generally works. So may be not today, come up witn a first draft minus personal details, and people here can support you in coming up with a good email back to WMT. May be do this later, but if you are feeling totally blocked right now, regardless of the stress, then it may help you to move on a bit by coming up with that first draft. Obviously it's very important WMT gets a good reply soon, but not necessarily immediately.

You also best check your contract. These vary hugely over the NHS and most say very little, but some Trusts and Federations do have tighter contract wording about disclosing incidents like this. GP practices of course vary, if you are a student nurse, TNA or the like then there could be a need to tell your uni at some point, it depends on the precise wording.

 

[Matysha]

I work in the NHS and part of my role is DBS related. I best not sugar coat this, it is serious, but it may be resolvable. What matters is full attention to the details and total, total honesty - this is a core competence of nursing. I imagine this is a huge shock, and the implications could be very serious. But - and it's a realistic but - it should be possible to negotiate your way out of this without a solicitor at this stage. If WMT shows signs of going towards a prosecution then later on a solicitor may be the best investment, given the long term financial impact this could have on you. However the wording of WMT's letter indicates they want to negotiate an out of court settlement, and that's in their interests as well as yours: WMT will get more money sooner and for less cost that way. It's a standard text, by the way.

Having said that, it's important to think clearly and you would be less than human if your best reply were to come today. If the email has been sent to you in the last day or two, you can hold back a reply for a day or two more in order to get the best possible reply to them. There is a formula in post 15 which generally works. So may be not today, come up witn a first draft minus personal details, and people here can support you in coming up with a good email back to WMT. May be do this later, but if you are feeling totally blocked right now, regardless of the stress, then it may help you to move on a bit by coming up with that first draft. Obviously it's very important WMT gets a good reply soon, but not necessarily immediately.

You also best check your contract. These vary hugely over the NHS and most say very little, but some Trusts and Federations do have tighter contract wording about disclosing incidents like this. GP practices of course vary, if you are a student nurse, TNA or the like then there could be a need to tell your uni at some point, it depends on the precise wording.

Thank you for your advice

 

[WesternLancer]

I am not a member of any trade union, so I would have to draft the letter myself. However, I am feeling scared and emotionally drained right now, making it difficult to think clearly. That’s why I have been searching for help. solicitors that don't over charge.

You have had some good advice about how you should respond to this letter and it's vital that you do so if you want to avoid it escalating to court prosecution (which has a strong chance of being avoided despite the seriousness of what you have done which is deliberate fare evasion as opposed to a minor mistake with tickets)

As mentioned - there are lots of examples on this forum of the sort of reply you need to send - here is one you can look at and perhaps adapt for your circumstances, making sure everything in your reply is the truth and there are no lies that they could find out about later on

see this thread and Post #12 in particular

Travel Fraud Investigation West Midlands Trains

Okay I screwed up! Just over a month ago I boarded a train from Lichfield City to Birmingham new street and I bought a ticket from Aston. It's not unusual for me to sort my ticket out on the train as there are no barriers at Lichfield. Only this time I forgot and panicked so I bought it from...

www.railforums.co.uk

I am not a member of any trade union,

Separately - you should seriously think about joining a union - presumably either the RCN or Unison - they are precisely there to help people who make the sort of error of judgment you have made here and problems that escalate as a result of it and can give free help and advice or in certain circumstances free access to solicitors or legal help too.

 

[Titfield]

Separately - you should seriously think about joining a union - presumably either the RCN or Unison - they are precisely there to help people who make the sort of error of judgment you have made here and problems that escalate as a result of it and can give free help and advice or in certain circumstances free access to solicitors or legal help too.

This is excellent advice given you work in a regulated profession where wrong doing (intentional or otherwise) can have severe consequences.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 May 2025 ==

Thanks, I will draft the letter after looking at Samples. Is there a history of people that have done this without getting a conviction on this forum? This is my fear speaking out loud

Yes there are numerous threads where the Poster has confirmed the matter has been settled out of court.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks, I will draft the letter after looking at Samples. Is there a history of people that have done this without getting a conviction on this forum? This is my fear speaking out loud

There are more examples on this forum of people successfully doing that and avoiding a conviction than there are examples of people who have ended up being prosecuted.

You can almost certainly guarantee avoiding a prosecution if you follow the advice here step by step (but we can ot 100% guarantee that of course)

 

[Matysha]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to your recent correspondence dated 27th May 2025 regarding the travel incident on 9th May 2025.

Firstly, I would like to sincerely apologise for what has happened. I fully acknowledge the seriousness of the matter and regret any inconvenience caused to West Midlands Trains as a result of my actions.

I understand now the importance of always ensuring that I carry the appropriate ticket, and I want to assure you that I have learned a valuable lesson from this incident. I will ensure I buy appropriate ticket for my journey in future to ensure this does not happen again.

I am very keen to resolve this issue as promptly and amicably as possible. Therefore, I would like to offer to pay the outstanding fare along with administrative costs incurred by West Midlands Trains in handling this matter. I hope this demonstrates my willingness to take responsibility and cooperate fully to settle the issue without the need for any court proceedings.

Please let me know the total amount to be paid and the method by which I can make this payment. I would be grateful for the opportunity to resolve this matter swiftly and avoid further action.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,

 

[Pushpit]

It's good, and probably fine as it is - remember to include any reference number. If buying a railcard will help reduce any future travel costs, it may be worth including the details so as to show another reason why it won't happen again. A Network railcard probably won't help much if your travel is in the West Midlands, that's more for London and SE England.

The paragraph "I am keep to resolve...." : again probably OK but I wonder if you would consider something a bit more contrite. Adapting another recent letter, how about something like:

I respectfully request the opportunity to resolve this matter without court proceedings. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs associated with this case. I hope that you might consider this as an error in judgement from someone who now fully understands the implications of their actions.

 

[Matysha]

It's good, and probably fine as it is - remember to include any reference number. If buying a railcard will help reduce any future travel costs, it may be worth including the details so as to show another reason why it won't happen again. A Network railcard probably won't help much if your travel is in the West Midlands, that's more for London and SE England.

The paragraph "I am keep to resolve...." : again probably OK but I wonder if you would consider something a bit more contrite. Adapting another recent letter, how about something like:

I respectfully request the opportunity to resolve this matter without court proceedings. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs associated with this case. I hope that you might consider this as an error in judgement from someone who now fully understands the implications of their actions.

Thank you so much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jun 2025 ==

Dear Sir/Madam,
I received your email dated 27th May 2025. I have read and understood it’s contents. My response is as follows:
• I admit to the incident that happened on 09th May 2025, when I was stopped by a revenue inspector.

• I did have a valid ticket; however, I was not in possession of a rail card, which entitled me to the discounted rate.

• I was indeed interviewed under caution, which was most uncomfortable, since I have never been in a situation like that before.

• I had no intention to defraud West Midland Trains by purchasing a discounted ticket
without a railway card. I regret this action of mine; I am remorseful and assure your company this unfortunate event would never happen again.

• I am a registered Psychiatric nurse, a key worker and an outstanding member of my community. I am a single mother, trying to make ends meet, facing various financial and cost of living challenges. I am humbled and truly sorry for my indiscretion.

• I am pleading, this case is settled out of court, and I ask you tender justice with mercy. I assure you that I will not be boarding any train in future, without paying the correct fare or having a railcard that entitles me to get the discounted rate.

Thanking you in advance for your consideration in looking into my case and hoping for a positive outcome. I look forward to your response.
Kind regards

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jun 2025 ==

Thank you so much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jun 2025 ==

Dear Sir/Madam,
I received your email dated 27th May 2025. I have read and understood it’s contents. My response is as follows:
• I admit to the incident that happened on 09th May 2025, when I was stopped by a revenue inspector.

• I did have a valid ticket; however, I was not in possession of a rail card, which entitled me to the discounted rate.

• I was indeed interviewed under caution, which was most uncomfortable, since I have never been in a situation like that before.

• I had no intention to defraud West Midland Trains by purchasing a discounted ticket
without a railway card. I regret this action of mine; I am remorseful and assure your company this unfortunate event would never happen again.

• I am a registered Psychiatric nurse, a key worker and an outstanding member of my community. I am a single mother, trying to make ends meet, facing various financial and cost of living challenges. I am humbled and truly sorry for my indiscretion.

• I am pleading, this case is settled out of court, and I ask you tender justice with mercy. I assure you that I will not be boarding any train in future, without paying the correct fare or having a railcard that entitles me to get the discounted rate.

Thanking you in advance for your consideration in looking into my case and hoping for a positive outcome. I look forward to your response.
Kind regards

Hello, please just wondering which of these email I should post as I have been getting different sorts of advise.

 

[Pushpit]

Hello, please just wondering which of these email I should post as I have been getting different sorts of advise.

There isn't a perfect way to handle it, and different people will give different advice. Luckily I don't think the rail companies get too granular about a precise word choice, it's more the overall message. Personally I'm comfortable with you sticking to your first version in post 24, which I think is a good letter, perhaps with the change in post 25 too. Post 26 I think isn't as good, but it may actually get the same response anyway. Ultimately though it's about what you feel is best too, since it is more authentic if it is really your best endeavour then that may come across to the person in WMT who will process it.

 

[30907]

Thank you so much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jun 2025 ==

Dear Sir/Madam,
I received your email dated 27th May 2025. I have read and understood it’s contents. My response is as follows:
• I admit to the incident that happened on 09th May 2025, when I was stopped by a revenue inspector.

• I did have a valid ticket; however, I was not in possession of a rail card, which entitled me to the discounted rate.

• I was indeed interviewed under caution, which was most uncomfortable, since I have never been in a situation like that before.

• I had no intention to defraud West Midland Trains by purchasing a discounted ticket without a railway card. I regret this action of mine; I am remorseful and assure your company this unfortunate event would never happen again.

• I am a registered Psychiatric nurse, a key worker and an outstanding member of my community. I am a single mother, trying to make ends meet, facing various financial and cost of living challenges. I am humbled and truly sorry for my indiscretion.

• I am pleading, this case is settled out of court, and I ask you tender justice with mercy. I assure you that I will not be boarding any train in future, without paying the correct fare or having a railcard that entitles me to get the discounted rate.

Thanking you in advance for your consideration in looking into my case and hoping for a positive outcome. I look forward to your response.
Kind regards

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jun 2025 ==


Hello, please just wondering which of these email I should post as I have been getting different sorts of advise.

I would strongly advise against sending this. The highlighted sentence is contradicted by the facts - you intended to save money at WMT's (and therefore the taxpayer's) expense.

The previous paragraph adds nothing - delete it - and the following one is unlikely to help.

#24 as amended in #25 is perfectly good.

 

[Matysha]

I would strongly advise against sending this. The highlighted sentence is contradicted by the facts - you intended to save money at WMT's (and therefore the taxpayer's) expense.

The previous paragraph adds nothing - delete it - and the following one is unlikely to help.

#24 as amended in #25 is perfectly good.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

I thought so too, thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

There isn't a perfect way to handle it, and different people will give different advice. Luckily I don't think the rail companies get too granular about a precise word choice, it's more the overall message. Personally I'm comfortable with you sticking to your first version in post 24, which I think is a good letter, perhaps with the change in post 25 too. Post 26 I think isn't as good, but it may actually get the same response anyway. Ultimately though it's about what you feel is best too, since it is more authentic if it is really your best endeavour then that may come across to the person in WMT who will process it.

Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

Hello All, has any body ever experienced getting two different emails regarding digital fraud when I have not replied. Please I got these emails.
Ref: DFMG69272432 3rd Apil 2025

As you have failed to provide the evidence requested on the 27th of May 2025.
We have further investigated this matter and found 52 incidents where you have purchased fraudulent tickets at a value of £607.43 which together with our costs of £175.00 totals £782.43 and should you fail to provide the evidence requested or the sum of £782.43 by the 10th of May 2025 we will have no alternative but to consider passing this matter to our Prosecutions Team for legal action which will increase the amount payable.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,
Investigator ID DFI22343
Fraud and Investigations Manager

We will reply without any undue delay no later than 20 working days, please do not attend our head office in Birmingham as the West Midlands Trains Digital Fraud team are not based in this location.

West Midlands Trains Ltd, 2nd Floor, 134 Edmund Street, Birmingham, B3 2ES



West Midlands Trains Limited Company No. 09860466
Registered in England Registered Office: St Andrews House, Second Floor, 18-20 St Andrew Street, London EC4A 3AG
If you are not the intended recipient then you have received this email in error and any use, disclosure, forwarding, printing, copying and distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error please contact the sender.
Save a tree... Please don't print this email unless you really need to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

As you have failed to provide the evidence requested on the 27th of May 2025.
We have further investigated this matter and found 52 incidents where you have purchased fraudulent tickets at a value of £607.43 which together with our costs of £175.00 totals £782.43 and should you fail to provide the evidence requested or the sum of £782.43 by the 10th of June 2025 we will have no alternative but to consider passing this matter to our Prosecutions Team for legal action which will increase the amount payable.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,
Investigator ID DFI22343
Fraud and Investigations Manager

We will reply without any undue delay no later than 20 working days, please do not attend our head office in Birmingham as the West Midlands Trains Digital Fraud team are not based in this location.

West Midlands Trains Ltd, 2nd Floor, 134 Edmund Street, Birmingham, B3 2ES



West Midlands Trains Limited Company No. 09860466
Registered in England Registered Office: St Andrews House, Second Floor, 18-20 St Andrew Street, London EC4A 3AG
If you are not the intended recipient then you have received this email in error and any use, disclosure, forwarding, printing, copying and distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error please contact the sender.
Save a tree... Please don't print this email unless you really need to.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

I thought so too, thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==


Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

Hello All, has any body ever experienced getting two different emails regarding digital fraud when I have not replied. Please I got these emails.
Ref: DFMG69272432 3rd Apil 2025

As you have failed to provide the evidence requested on the 27th of May 2025.
We have further investigated this matter and found 52 incidents where you have purchased fraudulent tickets at a value of £607.43 which together with our costs of £175.00 totals £782.43 and should you fail to provide the evidence requested or the sum of £782.43 by the 10th of May 2025 we will have no alternative but to consider passing this matter to our Prosecutions Team for legal action which will increase the amount payable.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,
Investigator ID DFI22343
Fraud and Investigations Manager

We will reply without any undue delay no later than 20 working days, please do not attend our head office in Birmingham as the West Midlands Trains Digital Fraud team are not based in this location.

West Midlands Trains Ltd, 2nd Floor, 134 Edmund Street, Birmingham, B3 2ES



West Midlands Trains Limited Company No. 09860466
Registered in England Registered Office: St Andrews House, Second Floor, 18-20 St Andrew Street, London EC4A 3AG
If you are not the intended recipient then you have received this email in error and any use, disclosure, forwarding, printing, copying and distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error please contact the sender.
Save a tree... Please don't print this email unless you really need to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

As you have failed to provide the evidence requested on the 27th of May 2025.
We have further investigated this matter and found 52 incidents where you have purchased fraudulent tickets at a value of £607.43 which together with our costs of £175.00 totals £782.43 and should you fail to provide the evidence requested or the sum of £782.43 by the 10th of June 2025 we will have no alternative but to consider passing this matter to our Prosecutions Team for legal action which will increase the amount payable.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,
Investigator ID DFI22343
Fraud and Investigations Manager

We will reply without any undue delay no later than 20 working days, please do not attend our head office in Birmingham as the West Midlands Trains Digital Fraud team are not based in this location.

West Midlands Trains Ltd, 2nd Floor, 134 Edmund Street, Birmingham, B3 2ES



West Midlands Trains Limited Company No. 09860466
Registered in England Registered Office: St Andrews House, Second Floor, 18-20 St Andrew Street, London EC4A 3AG
If you are not the intended recipient then you have received this email in error and any use, disclosure, forwarding, printing, copying and distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error please contact the sender.
Save a tree... Please don't print this email unless you really need to.

Going all the way back to your original post, you were very keen to avoid a conviction. If that's still the most important thing to you, then on the basis of the emails that they have sent you, if you pay them £782.43 that should settle the matter and you will not be prosecuted.

A couple of points to add to that though:
- The two emails you received are almost identical - but the first one asks you to pay by 10 May which is obviously impossible: the second one says 10 June. I think they realised their mistake after sending the first email and sent the second one to try and put that right.
- you'll see from other threads that WMT are being quite aggressive in chasing thigs at the moment - and that's relevant to your case here in that it seems to me that they will have no evidence to actually prove that there are

52 incidents where you have purchased fraudulent tickets at a value of £607.43

You would be within your rights to say to them 'prove it' - but if you did that then the railway could decide to prosecute for the time that they did catch you. So you're not in the strongest of positions.