What does the vertical banner repeater mean on this?

[DistantAR3]

Was looking at photographs of banner repeaters and found this one with a vertical banner repeater on the plate, what does that mean?


Photo shows an LED banner repeater with a plate, vertical repeater icon and the text "MP 640 BR". It is a snip of the full photo: https://www.alamy.com/uk-railway-ba...-time-amberproceed-aspect-image410217886.html

 

[swt_passenger]

The extra symbol is to remind drivers that it is a 3-state banner repeater, IIRC they were introduced when multi coloured banner aspects became common.

 

[Lewisham2221]

View attachment 180954Was looking at photographs of banner repeaters and found this one with a vertical banner repeater on the plate, what does that mean?


Photo shows an LED banner repeater with a plate, vertical repeater icon and the text "MP 640 BR". It is a snip of the full photo: https://www.alamy.com/uk-railway-ba...-time-amberproceed-aspect-image410217886.html

Three-state banner repeater. If the signal is displaying a green aspect, so will the banner repeater.

 

[DistantAR3]

The extra symbol is to remind drivers that it is a 3-state banner repeater, IIRC they were introduced when multi coloured banner aspects became common.

Thank you.

 

[EuxtonNeutral]

View attachment 180954Was looking at photographs of banner repeaters and found this one with a vertical banner repeater on the plate, what does that mean?


Photo shows an LED banner repeater with a plate, vertical repeater icon and the text "MP 640 BR". It is a snip of the full photo: https://www.alamy.com/uk-railway-ba...-time-amberproceed-aspect-image410217886.html

3-State Banner repeater. Can show Off, green (green signal); Off, white (yellow signal); or On (red signal)

The older 2-state banner repeaters can only show Off (green or yellow) or On (red). They are designated ‘BR’ without the symbol.

2-state banners are only useful if you are crawling towards a signal you can’t see but which you expect to be red. 3-state banners can alert you at high speed to a concealed signal ahead showing a restrictive aspect.

 

[Lewisham2221]

2-state banners are only useful if you are crawling towards a signal you can’t see but which you expect to be red. 3-state banners can alert you at high speed to a concealed signal ahead showing a restrictive aspect.

From a drivers perspective, yes. For a guard or dispatcher a 3-state banner repeater provides little additional benefit.

 

[John Webb]

Three-state Banner Repeater (BR) showing the Green indication at the south end of St Albans City Station Down Fast platform:

This was installed on the Midland Main Line on the Down Fast next to the St Albans South box some 12 years ago, following an upgrading of the Down Fast to allow 100+mph running.
Another BR is visible on the Down Slow line, which is limited to circa 90mph, so it remains a 'two-state' one.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Installed on the Midland Main Line on the Down Fast next to the St Albans South box some 12 years ago:View attachment 180968
This followed upgrading of the Down Fast to allow 100+mph running.
The other Banner Repeater on the Down Slow line, limited to circa 90mph, remains a 'two-state' one.

Wigan North Western also has one at the end of platform 4 (the actual signal is around the corner, about 1 Pendolino length away).

 

[Annetts key]

Just to clarify, LED banner signals that can show green are not limited to lines with a line speed of 100mph or more. Where operations have decided that it's worthwhile for performance reasons, they can be provided.

And the reason for a banner in the first place, is due to insufficient sighting distance for the main signal. Hence a banner is provided.

 

[40129]

Just to clarify, LED banner signals that can show green are not limited to lines with a line speed of 100mph or more. Where operations have decided that it's worthwhile for performance reasons, they can be provided.

And the reason for a banner in the first place, is due to insufficient sighting distance for the main signal. Hence a banner is provided.

Precisely. One example is at Sandwell & Dudley where the line speed IIRC is 75 mph

 

[Supercoss]

Worth noting before the green colour Was chosen the 3rd state was planned to be exactly as the vertical icon is shown on the ID plate
Off 45 degrees
on horizontal
off green ahead vertical later changed to 45 degrees with green backdrop

 

[507 001]

Precisely. One example is at Sandwell & Dudley where the line speed IIRC is 75 mph

There’s two at Deansgate where line speed is just 30mph.

 

[John Webb]

Just to clarify, LED banner signals that can show green are not limited to lines with a line speed of 100mph or more. Where operations have decided that it's worthwhile for performance reasons, they can be provided......

Noted - the reason we were given for this banner appearing on our 'doorstep' was the change in line speed, so I assumed that was the principle reason for such changes.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Are all new banner repeaters installed now 3 state (unless there’s a specific reason for it to be 2 state such as on the approach to a complex area)?

 

[Skoodle]

Just to clarify, LED banner signals that can show green are not limited to lines with a line speed of 100mph or more. Where operations have decided that it's worthwhile for performance reasons, they can be provided.

And the reason for a banner in the first place, is due to insufficient sighting distance for the main signal. Hence a banner is provided.

One has been installed outside Peckham Rye Station on the Down South London Line, where immediately after the platform the linespeed drops to 20mph.

 

[Annetts key]

Are all new banner repeaters installed now 3 state (unless there’s a specific reason for it to be 2 state such as on the approach to a complex area)?

I don't know. As I said earlier, keep in mind the reason for banner signals being needed. Traditional banners (which have existed since before colour light signals were common) could only show on and off. In signalling equipment terms, these "3 state" banners are relatively new. Hence the default may be "2 state" unless operations want to pay the extra costs for the more complex "3 state". Although, if the interlocking is computer based, the extra cost is not going to be significant.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I don't know. As I said earlier, keep in mind the reason for banner signals being needed. Traditional banners (which have existed since before colour light signals were common) could only show on and off. In signalling equipment terms, these "3 state" banners are relatively new. Hence the default may be "2 state" unless operations want to pay the extra costs for the more complex "3 state". Although, if the interlocking is computer based, the extra cost is not going to be significant.

Thanks for the reply. I only asked as I can’t think of any 2 state banners in any of the re signalling projects* so thought they just fit them all with 3 state- I suppose you might as well if the cost is similar like you say.

*unless there’s a specific reason to restrict it to 2 state for operational reasons