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Future of the GWR electrification

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Trainman40083

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Even if coming via Banbury, a 93 or 99 may be able to bridge that gap, if it had enough time on the wires south of Oxford.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


It will be interesting to see how much traffic does actually use EWR in the end. It's still a dog-leg for traffic heading from Birmingham or north thereof to Southampton, and there are capacity pinch points between Northampton and MK.

There's also the fact that most of the West Midlands container terminals aren't on wired routes, so in order for electric freight to make any serious inroads you'd also want Birmingham-Nuneaton wiring as well as Bletchley-Oxford-Didcot.
I am sure that the opening of HS2 southern section will reduce the capacity pinch points. I would have thought that even if the route via Bletchley was longer, it may take less time as it would (well should) get held up less. Would think a Class 99 should cope with some gaps. But as for south of Reading..... I wonder if Oxford to Didcot will get done when they finish the remodeling?
 
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zwk500

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I am sure that the opening of HS2 southern section will reduce the capacity pinch points. I would have thought that even if the route via Bletchley was longer, it may take less time as it would (well should) get held up less. Would think a Class 99 should cope with some gaps.
HS2 will certainly help. Of course, there may be a bit of contention for which traffic gets the paths freed up!

I'm not sure a freight would get held up less from Nuneaton to Oxford via Bletchley rather than Banbury, tbh. Freight is already regularly held at Rugby, Northampton, MK etc and Bletchley-Oxford will need to leave space for the future EWR services.
But as for south of Reading..... I wonder if Oxford to Didcot will get done when they finish the remodeling?
I really hope so. being able to put the Didcot-Oxford services on 387s rather than turbos (especially as part of a reconnected service) would really help, as well as having IETs that can take advantage of the wires immediately.
 

Bikeman78

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Looking at today, you've got a 1007 RDG-BSK 1035, Next working 1053 BSK-1119 RDG, next working would be 1133 RDG-BSK (if they're not interworked with a Newbury or similar). So I think it's 3 units in the cycle for the approximately half-hourly service. [1007, 1033, 1107 departures from Reading before the 1133 is formed off the ex-1007.]

There are also other reasons to electrify this area:
1. The 2 most difficult things are basically done - power and signalling.
2. It puts EMUs on stopping services, where their acceleration can be best used.
3. It replaces DMUs on the busy Southcote jn - Reading section, where EMUs will be able to get through slightly quicker.
4. Allows a 4-car EMU to replace a 2/3-car turbo.
5. Allows greater flexibility in fleet allocation with Reading-Newbury and Reading-Basingstoke both fully wired.
6. It increases the utility of potential XC and freight bi-modes, aiding the case for procurement.
Not sure if I should start a new thread for this? History has turned full circle on this line. It was three units when worked by class 205 and 207. When the class 165s arrived, NSE thought they could do it with two units. Fine in summer, not in autumn when the trains would get later and later. Good to see that it's back up to three units.

What is most bizarre is the chaotic nature of the timetable. Was it planned with a dartboard? Two trains per hour but gaps up to 43 minutes. This must play havoc with anyone using the local service to connect at Reading or Basingstoke. When it ran with two units, the times were the same every hour, so why can't that still apply but with longer turnrounds at each end? Ironically the XC trains are far more consistent.
 

cle

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Is it because of Green Park?

Side note but line speed on the line is very low for a fairly simple line that has faster services, why can't this be looked at? Could it enable 3tph stoppers? Or a third tph out of Reading towards Salisbury, as has been done sporadically.
 

brad465

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Is it because of Green Park?

Side note but line speed on the line is very low for a fairly simple line that has faster services, why can't this be looked at? Could it enable 3tph stoppers? Or a third tph out of Reading towards Salisbury, as has been done sporadically.
IIRC the signalling is 3-aspect on that stretch, which I think is odd considering it's a mixed-traffic route with high demand, which is usually sufficient to need 4-aspect. 4-aspect signalling may also allow a higher line speed depending on what other factors are in play.
 

Richard Scott

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Was speaking to someone the other day who works in rail industry that plans for electrifying Filton Bank are being formulated and that majority of Bristol Temple Meads to London trains will go via this route due to resistance of people in Bath to electrification through Sydney Gardens and GWR want to reduce diesel running. Any truth in this?
If better in speculation thread, please move.
 

YorkshireBear

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Was speaking to someone the other day who works in rail industry that plans for electrifying Filton Bank are being formulated and that majority of Bristol Temple Meads to London trains will go via this route due to resistance of people in Bath to electrification through Sydney Gardens and GWR want to reduce diesel running. Any truth in this?
If better in speculation thread, please move.
Problem is, plans being formulated doesn't mean anything anymore. As at any stage it can just be put on hold. Highly frustrating when working within one of those projects.

That's my cynical response to that anyway.

A more positive view is that it is a quick win, and would be a slow start to establishing another strang to quietly get on with things.

Suspect better in speculative.
 

Ashley Hill

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What will they replace services from Bath and Chippenham with, a local stopper from Swindon to Bristol? On the other hand of course if Corsham,Salford and St Anne’s Park were ever re-opened there would only be few London services for a stopper to get in the way of.
 

zwk500

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Was speaking to someone the other day who works in rail industry that plans for electrifying Filton Bank are being formulated and that majority of Bristol Temple Meads to London trains will go via this route due to resistance of people in Bath to electrification through Sydney Gardens and GWR want to reduce diesel running. Any truth in this?
If better in speculation thread, please move.
Electrification of Filton Bank had some funding allocated by WECA to feasibility work a while ago, that's public record. I'd be extremely surprised if Bath received any reduction in service given how busy those services are. Bath had an (apparently) agreed design for OLE through the sensitive areas so not sure why there'd be particular resistance on that front. There were plans for Bristol extras to run via Parkway (indeed in the peaks there are currently Paddington-Parkway extras worked by 387s) so maybe there's been some conflation of intentions?
 

Benjwri

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Was speaking to someone the other day who works in rail industry that plans for electrifying Filton Bank are being formulated and that majority of Bristol Temple Meads to London trains will go via this route due to resistance of people in Bath to electrification through Sydney Gardens and GWR want to reduce diesel running. Any truth in this?
If better in speculation thread, please move.
It would be unlikely. As mentioned above there was an agreement for Bath at the time of the original programme. The topic as I understand it hasn’t come up since in any depth at all. The loadings into Bath are too high to cut the service, a shuttle would have to be too short to fit into the Swindon bay platform.

To give an idea of Passenger Loadings, ODM data for 2023/24 from Paddington to Bristol was 717,756, Paddington to Bath was 658,206. Chippenham is 203,176, so if this proposal were real it would be suggesting disadvantaging more than 50% of passengers using the trains. I certainly can imagine there would be some MPs getting quite vocal as well.
 

John R

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There is no way that Bath and Chippenham would not continue to have 2tph to London. I suspect the rumours are coming about because of the WECA funding to investigate wiring Filton Bank. There is a long way to go from funding an investigation and actually delivering a project, and I don't see how WECA could promote a project which as a consequence subtantially reduced connectivity between Bath and London.
 

swt_passenger

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Was speaking to someone the other day who works in rail industry that plans for electrifying Filton Bank are being formulated and that majority of Bristol Temple Meads to London trains will go via this route due to resistance of people in Bath to electrification through Sydney Gardens and GWR want to reduce diesel running. Any truth in this?
If better in speculation thread, please move.
It’s been pointed out a few times that special electrification hardware for the stretch through the centre of Bath has been designed and accepted - at least by those actually in a position to make a decision.
 

Harpo

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trains will go via this route due to resistance of people in Bath to electrification through Sydney Gardens
That has the sound of truth to it. Just look at how many years the wretched ‘temporary’ stick fencing remained in place in Sydney Gardens. Safety dictated that improvement was essential but local sentiments prevented a mutually acceptable design being reached for an extraordinarily long time.
 

Benjwri

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That has the sound of truth to it. Just look at how many years the wretched ‘temporary’ stick fencing remained in place in Sydney Gardens. Safety dictated that improvement was essential but local sentiments prevented a mutually acceptable design being reached for an extraordinarily long time.
That fencing mess was entirely Network Rail’s fault. Their initial design was realised to be too heavy for the wall at a very late stage, and the entire design and approval process had to be started again for a new solution that included strengthening. No different to the many many other listed assets that Network Rail works with across the country.

As has been mentioned, a design was approved before, and there has been no discussion since on any revival of the plans.
 

Quincy

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I’ve seen some talk of the ‘special design’ for bath, but has the design actually been released/ showed off yet? I’m quite intrigued into seeing what it would look like?
 

Annetts key

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Was speaking to someone the other day who works in rail industry that plans for electrifying Filton Bank are being formulated and that majority of Bristol Temple Meads to London trains will go via this route due to resistance of people in Bath to electrification through Sydney Gardens and GWR want to reduce diesel running. Any truth in this?
If better in speculation thread, please move.
Network Rail has some plans for the Portishead line in the event that money is found for OHL on this route, just because there are some plans or work is taking place in planning doesn't mean very much. And it was always intended to have OHL from Filton to BTM. So it's hard to take anything useful from this. Especially as BTM will not be wired until after the work on the station roof has finished.
 

Western Sunset

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As others have mentioned:
1. No way would Bath lose its 2-tph direct to Padd. Too big a market.
2. Designs for OHLE through Bath/Sydney Gdns were approved/signed-off. Just the curtailing of the project by Grayling / lack of £££ led to its no-go.

Has the impasse over Chippenham footbridge now been resolved?
 

The exile

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Especially as BTM will not be wired until after the work on the station roof has finished.
Isn’t that now a matter of weeks/months rather than years so hardly a block to any electrification that’s still at “planning”.
 
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I’ve seen some talk of the ‘special design’ for bath, but has the design actually been released/ showed off yet? I’m quite intrigued into seeing what it would look like?
image.png

This graphic has floated around a few times on this here website. I don't know from what stage of the design it originates but I suppose it's the general idea of it
 

zwk500

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Network Rail has some plans for the Portishead line in the event that money is found for OHL on this route
Does it? Interesting, I'd have thought there'd be far higher priorities for any OHL money before wiring Portishead came into it.
Has the impasse over Chippenham footbridge now been resolved?
Chippenham has 2 footbridges, from the look of it - an Access for All one that's designed with electrification standards in mind, the original station one that from a quick google image search looks to have greater clearance under it htan many electrified bridges, although obviously there's more than just distance involved in these things.
Isn’t that now a matter of weeks/months rather than years so hardly a block to any electrification that’s still at “planning”.
Suspect months rather than weeks but yes it would be well clear of any works (although may impact surveys). The rewire of the station is separate to the roof works and may be a bigger hurdle.
 

John R

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The rewire of the station is separate to the roof works and may be a bigger hurdle.
Speaking of which, as a minor aside, I notice that the platform lighting is being replaced, and indeed most of the platforms are now using the new lighting. I think it looks rather good, and better than the old fashioned fittings that would until a few years ago have held fluorescent tubes.
 

Quincy

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image.png

This graphic has floated around a few times on this here website. I don't know from what stage of the design it originates but I suppose it's the general idea of it
Ah okay, it looks better then I was expecting, not too much worse then any street lights plopped about Bath
 

Quincy

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The rewire of the station is separate to the roof works and may be a bigger hurdle.
Does anyone know if the plan is to wire all the platforms at BTM or just a few? With the possibility of wiring it all at a later date?
 

John R

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Does anyone know if the plan is to wire all the platforms at BTM or just a few? With the possibility of wiring it all at a later date?
I'm not sure a plan is that well developed, or that what was planned previously (when both Bath and Filton Bank routes were expected to be electrified) could still be regarded as a plan.
 

brad465

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If Filton Bank gets wired anytime soon there's not a lot that will benefit currently. The Bristol TM-London fasts aren't returning; the only moves that will use it are Cardiff-Exeter services and ECS moves to/from Stoke Gifford. If however BEMUs take over all the Bristol metro services, then it becomes very valuable.
 

TheLastMinute

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AIUI the whole station is being rewired as a lot of the existing is original and not in great condition.

OHLE electrification on the other hand hasn't been planned, or even got funding yet.
 

John R

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If Filton Bank gets wired anytime soon there's not a lot that will benefit currently. The Bristol TM-London fasts aren't returning; the only moves that will use it are Cardiff-Exeter services and ECS moves to/from Stoke Gifford. If however BEMUs take over all the Bristol metro services, then it becomes very valuable.
Or if the additional two tph that TfW is looking to run into Bristol are approved, they would also benefit.
 

Quincy

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If Filton Bank gets wired anytime soon there's not a lot that will benefit currently. The Bristol TM-London fasts aren't returning; the only moves that will use it are Cardiff-Exeter services and ECS moves to/from Stoke Gifford. If however BEMUs take over all the Bristol metro services, then it becomes very valuable.
It also allows additional trains to be used, possibly as you said, BEMUs for Bristol metro services but the possibility of EMUs being used on Bristol - Cardiff services, either as additional capacity or a mix up on the routes freeing up the 80x onto different routes. I don’t really know what’s happening with 387s, both GWR’s and other TOC’s but that could be a fit, especially on Match days at Cardiff.
 

Hellzapoppin

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The whole of the station is being rewired but a lot of work remains to be done once the scaffolding associated with the roof works comes down. In addition all the redundant signalling, telecoms, CIS, PA cabling and equipment left and never recovered throughout the station is/has been/to be removed.
 
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