Livery under Great British Railways

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It could work, though the single-colour approach would not work in the rest of the country

Why not?

 

[generalnerd]

Much as I am an advocate of reclaiming the flag from right-leaning nationalists, at the moment we haven't managed this yet, and given the current state of politics with Labour trying to out-Reform Reform it shouldn't be surprising that people will associate GBR's use of a Union Jack with similar sentiment. For what it's worth I am a fan of using it as a basis for the livery as long as it's subtle and fits the train design.

It’s not as far gone as the English flag, which scarcely seen outside of World Cup season and some far right groups

I quite like the blue colour they have chosen, I just hope it’s not a big Union Jack down the train and it’s more of a basic ‘on size fits all’ livery

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s not as far gone as the English flag, which scarcely seen outside of World Cup season and some far right groups

Ironically the DB ICE livery is basically the St George's flag.

 

[generalnerd]

Ironically the DB ICE livery is basically the St George's flag.

That is quote funny, like the time the Glasgow buses used a livery similar to the Irish flag, but I digress

 

[Sorcerer]

It’s not as far gone as the English flag, which scarcely seen outside of World Cup season and some far right groups

I quite like the blue colour they have chosen, I just hope it’s not a big Union Jack down the train and it’s more of a basic ‘on size fits all’ livery

Quite so, and it's funny because the St George's flag would form a better basis for a livery than the Union Jack. The horizontal line can run beneath the windows, and the doors on a regional train can be red, giving the impression of two English flags. Basing liveries on flags is really hard though, so maybe GBR should opt for something more simple still based on the red, white and blue scheme.

 

[Mike Machin]

I still think we need a very stylish but simplistic design and one that could be implemented at least in the use of an overall colour palette typography as quickly and easily as possible.

As Scotland and Wales will be retaining their existing branding/liveries, the new livery only really needs to reflect England. I would advise on reserving the name 'Great British Railways' to the overall operating company and just use the name in a small, subtle supporting rôle on the rolling stock.

For the trains themselves, I would more or less adopt the Greater Anglia livery. It's contemporary, sharp and slick and reflects 'England' perfectly. Many other train operating companies also have fairly neutral base colours of various light greys and whites, Great Northern, Greater Anglia, Southern, South Western, Northern, Thameslink, LNER, Avanti and others, so having chosen a mid/darker grey and red as the branding colours, these could very quickly be applied in vinyl over the existing darker blues etc within the existing liveries. For example, on South Western Railway, the existing dark blue areas and doors would simply be overlayed with suitable grey and red vinyl graphics, the South Western Railway text would be re-applied in dark grey, double arrows would replace the SWR logo and job done.

This process could be replicated on all stock with a light base colour relatively quickly and this, coupled with the branding colours being used immediately in posters and publicity and online, with a relatively quick burst of repainting of key elements in stations etc, would quickly build brand awareness and show the public that 'things are changing.' It may not be perfect, but overlaying the existing colours with red/grey based graphics would ensure that the overall designs would work just as well as the existing deigns do now, but would allow for quite a fundamental change in the overall 'look' of the railways to be achieved pretty quickly.

Definitive new liveries based on the red and grey could be designed over the next couple of years to allow for a more 'considered' approach going forward for when existing stock receives a major overhaul or for the introduction of new stock.

Just following on from my ramblings above, a very quick mock-up of how the vinyl overlays would work applied to the existing SWR livery. Similar treatment could easily be applied to great Northern, Thameslink, Northern etc. and a new brand could be rolled-out pretty quickly. Obviously there are a few outliers such as South Eastern and GWR but the majority of other operators could be adapted quite rapidly, with Greater Anglia not needing anything other than new titles.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I still think we need a very stylish but simplistic design and one that could be implemented at least in the use of an overall colour palette typography as quickly and easily as possible.

As Scotland and Wales will be retaining their existing branding/liveries, the new livery only really needs to reflect England. I would advise on reserving the name 'Great British Railways' to the overall operating company and just use the name in a small, subtle supporting rôle on the rolling stock.

For the trains themselves, I would more or less adopt the Greater Anglia livery. It's contemporary, sharp and slick and reflects 'England' perfectly. Many other train operating companies also have fairly neutral base colours of various light greys and whites, Great Northern, Greater Anglia, Southern, South Western, Northern, Thameslink, LNER, Avanti and others, so having chosen a mid/darker grey and red as the branding colours, these could very quickly be applied in vinyl over the existing darker blues etc within the existing liveries. For example, on South Western Railway, the existing dark blue areas and doors would simply be overlayed with suitable grey and red vinyl graphics, the South Western Railway text would be re-applied in dark grey, double arrows would replace the SWR logo and job done.

This process could be replicated on all stock with a light base colour relatively quickly and this, coupled with the branding colours being used immediately in posters and publicity and online, with a relatively quick burst of repainting of key elements in stations etc, would quickly build brand awareness and show the public that 'things are changing.' It may not be perfect, but overlaying the existing colours with red/grey based graphics would ensure that the overall designs would work just as well as the existing deigns do now, but would allow for quite a fundamental change in the overall 'look' of the railways to be achieved pretty quickly.

Definitive new liveries based on the red and grey could be designed over the next couple of years to allow for a more 'considered' approach going forward for when existing stock receives a major overhaul or for the introduction of new stock.

Just following on from my ramblings above, a very quick mock-up of how the vinyl overlays would work applied to the existing SWR livery. Similar treatment could easily be applied to great Northern, Thameslink, Northern etc. and a new brand could be rolled-out pretty quickly. Obviously there are a few outliers such as South Eastern and GWR but the majority of other operators could be adapted quite rapidly, with Greater Anglia not needing anything other than new titles.

You know, I actually rather like that.

 

[Sorcerer]

I still think we need a very stylish but simplistic design and one that could be implemented at least in the use of an overall colour palette typography as quickly and easily as possible.

As Scotland and Wales will be retaining their existing branding/liveries, the new livery only really needs to reflect England. I would advise on reserving the name 'Great British Railways' to the overall operating company and just use the name in a small, subtle supporting rôle on the rolling stock.

For the trains themselves, I would more or less adopt the Greater Anglia livery. It's contemporary, sharp and slick and reflects 'England' perfectly. Many other train operating companies also have fairly neutral base colours of various light greys and whites, Great Northern, Greater Anglia, Southern, South Western, Northern, Thameslink, LNER, Avanti and others, so having chosen a mid/darker grey and red as the branding colours, these could very quickly be applied in vinyl over the existing darker blues etc within the existing liveries. For example, on South Western Railway, the existing dark blue areas and doors would simply be overlayed with suitable grey and red vinyl graphics, the South Western Railway text would be re-applied in dark grey, double arrows would replace the SWR logo and job done.

This process could be replicated on all stock with a light base colour relatively quickly and this, coupled with the branding colours being used immediately in posters and publicity and online, with a relatively quick burst of repainting of key elements in stations etc, would quickly build brand awareness and show the public that 'things are changing.' It may not be perfect, but overlaying the existing colours with red/grey based graphics would ensure that the overall designs would work just as well as the existing deigns do now, but would allow for quite a fundamental change in the overall 'look' of the railways to be achieved pretty quickly.

Definitive new liveries based on the red and grey could be designed over the next couple of years to allow for a more 'considered' approach going forward for when existing stock receives a major overhaul or for the introduction of new stock.

Just following on from my ramblings above, a very quick mock-up of how the vinyl overlays would work applied to the existing SWR livery. Similar treatment could easily be applied to great Northern, Thameslink, Northern etc. and a new brand could be rolled-out pretty quickly. Obviously there are a few outliers such as South Eastern and GWR but the majority of other operators could be adapted quite rapidly, with Greater Anglia not needing anything other than new titles.

I quite like that to be honest. My only criticism would be the lack of blue based on the current branding scheme, but by itself the livery looks really good!

 

[Mike Machin]

Same principle, overlaying the existing graphics with red/grey branding on Northern. Utilising the same basic base shapes as the present liveries, with the light-coloured background colour the new GBR could be up and running pretty quickly!

 

[Russel]

Same principle, overlaying the existing graphics with red/grey branding on Northern. Utilising the same basic base shapes as the present liveries, with the light-coloured background colour the new GBR could be up and running pretty quickly!

I like that, but the white skirt around the can needs to be red too, or dark grey, the white stands out too much.

 

[Mike Machin]

Well yes I agree, but the solutions I have put forward are based solely on overlaying the existing coloured areas on the various units with little or no additional graphics - it’s a sort of quick low-cost fix option to spread a new branding as simply, quickly and economically as possible using the liveries we already have.

This approach, with a new website featuring these colours, posters at stations and a bit of selective judicious red/grey painting at stations, together with the double arrow and Rail Alphabet Two typography could kickstart the visual changes quiet rapidly.

Fine tuning and bespoke new liveries based on the colour theme could follow later.

 

[12C]

Ironically the DB ICE livery is basically the St George's flag.

The DB ICE livery was just a rip off of BR Intercity Swallow, and shows how nice it can still look on a modern train (Hint hint GBR!).

(Photos of a DB ICE and IC Swallow class 91 for comparison)

 

[SoloSR334022]

Will Labour’s shake-up really fix Great Britain’s ailing railways?

As South Western becomes the latest operator to be renationalised, there are questions about whether the changes will lead to lower fares

www.theguardian.com

"At the rarely experienced hour of 6.14am on Sunday, the first train to carry the Great British Railways branding will make its way out of London Waterloo to Shepperton."

A class 701 on 2H07 London Waterloo to Shepperton on Sunday will appear with, a? The? GBR livery.

 

[Recessio]

So by the end of the year... 7? TOCs will be run by the DfT, but not under GBR. This is out of about ~10 franchised, non-regional operators.

One wonders, at this rate, what the tipping point will be. Surely we can't end up at the end of 2025 with an almost entirely nationalised system without any unifying branding or livery?

How long did it take, in comparison, to get a unified livery after BR was formed in 1948? Or to repaint every train when NSE was formed in the 80s?

 

[Mrwerdna1]

The DB ICE livery was just a rip off of BR Intercity Swallow, and shows how nice it can still look on a modern train (Hint hint GBR!).

(Photos of a DB ICE and IC Swallow class 91 for comparison)

Call me a hopeless nostalgic, but I have a massive soft spot for the BR InterCity swallow livery. Would not mind a revamp of that one bit.

 

[Sun Chariot]

How long did it take, in comparison, to get a unified livery after BR was formed in 1948? Or to repaint every train when NSE was formed in the 80s?

I've seen photos of locos carrying Big Four lettering as late as 1952 (it was an ex-LMS tank locomotive, in Scotland).
I've also seen two photos of ex-LNER carriages, still in their varnished teak, as late as 1954-55.
I have seen several photos of locos carrying either a regional prefix over their pre-1948 number; or carrying a 1948 number but still with Big Four lettering on the tender / tank sides.

The one advantage the embryonic British Railways had, was that many mixed traffic locos and virtually all freight locos were already black. Lining and lettering change for them. Express passenger locos gained priority order for repainting.

1948-50, carriage workshops were turning out new carriages to Big Four era designs, albeit Nationalisation lettered and liveried.
1951, Mk1 carriage diagrams began to enter traffic, in blood & custard.

 

[generalnerd]

The DB ICE livery was just a rip off of BR Intercity Swallow, and shows how nice it can still look on a modern train (Hint hint GBR!).

(Photos of a DB ICE and IC Swallow class 91 for comparison)

I’ve never seen them side by side before but you are absolutely right. Maybe the IC livery should return…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2025 ==

Call me a hopeless nostalgic, but I have a massive soft spot for the BR InterCity swallow livery. Would not mind a revamp of that one bit.

I agree, and I wasn’t even born at privatisation.

 

[Mike Machin]

How long did it take, in comparison, to get a unified livery after BR was formed in 1948? Or to repaint every train when NSE was formed in the 80s?

Mid 1950s although some rolling stock on the Southern Region missed-out on the carmine and cream and went from SR green to BR green. Just out of interest, but it’s taken SWR nearly 8 years to get the majority of their stock re-liveried and they’ve still not finished even now!

 

[Mikey C]

Mid 1950s although some rolling stock on the Southern Region missed-out on the carmine and cream and went from SR green to BR green. Just out of interest, but it’s taken SWR nearly 8 years to get the majority of their stock re-liveried and they’ve still not finished even now!

Only now (after GBR has been announced) are the 2004/5 Class 376s being re-liveried from their original Connex livery to Southeastern Blue. Govia took over Southeastern in 2006.

 

[Mike Machin]

Only now (after GBR has been announced) are the 2004/5 Class 376s being re-liveried from their original Connex livery to Southeastern Blue. Govia took over Southeastern in 2006.

I didn’t know that, but it doesn’t surprise me. If GBR gets Royal Ascent In parliament and goes ahead as planned in 2027, it’s highly likely to be sometime in the early 2040s before the re-branding nears completion, assuming that changes in policy don’t intervene before then.

 

[Zomboid]

Southeastern didn't introduce their blue colours initially though, did they? Aside from the high speed services their colours where white & yellow until they started refurbishing the 375s (2015?), and their networkers and 376s have always been white/ yellow.

So I don't think 2006 is really the start date of their "rebranding". Which is not to say that they've been rushing it along since the actual start date...

 

[generalnerd]

Only now (after GBR has been announced) are the 2004/5 Class 376s being re-liveried from their original Connex livery to Southeastern Blue. Govia took over Southeastern in 2006.

From the stickers we’ve seen, the southeastern livery might essentially be what we get. So really, we’ll see them get re-liveried into the GBR livery.

 

[Silent]

Call me a hopeless nostalgic, but I have a massive soft spot for the BR InterCity swallow livery. Would not mind a revamp of that one bit.

I feel like my main issue with it is that it fits old trains of the era it was used but with the curviness of some newer stock I think it wouldn’t look as good on them.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

From the stickers we’ve seen, the southeastern livery might essentially be what we get. So really, we’ll see them get re-liveried into the GBR livery.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the current Southeastern livery used but with the door colour changed to red or white.

 

[Silent]

From the stickers we’ve seen, the southeastern livery might essentially be what we get. So really, we’ll see them get re-liveried into the GBR livery.

I hope it’s more aesthetically interesting.

 

[vuzzeho]

A Union flag-based livery can work, if done tastefully and subtly. In fact, you can get multiple liveries from it. Let's hope they have. I'm still firm on the fact that InterCity needs to make a return as a brand though.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

A Union flag-based livery can work, if done tastefully and subtly. In fact, you can get multiple liveries from it. Let's hope they have. I'm still firm on the fact that InterCity needs to make a return as a brand though.

Yep, I may be a Scot and, not unsurprisingly, not a great fan of Maggie's "era", but Landor was a spectacular livery, it has to be said. And so was the Intercity Swallow livery. Both great to draw inspiration from I think. The use of royal blue in the GBR logo and mentions in the news articles lead me to believe the new livery will feature both that colour and the union flag. Whether that'll look any good, however, is hard to say at this stage.

 

[eldomtom2]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the current Southeastern livery used but with the door colour changed to red or white.

If I had to make one livery for the entire fleet (which I would prefer not to, I think TfL is a good example of how you can have multiple liveries that are clearly part of the same brand), I'd take the Southeastern livery, change the doors to red, and add a white stripe along the train where the current logo is, broken up with the double arrow logo at both ends.

 

[Zomboid]

I feel like my main issue with it is that it fits old trains of the era it was used but with the curviness of some newer stock I think it wouldn’t look as good on them.

If Intercity had survived as a brand over the last 30 years (about 3x as long as the Red/ grey colours lasted) it would have evolved as train designs evolved. There's no reason to assume that even the colour palette would have been kept over that time - blue & grey was only "current" for about 20 years.

There might need a seam worth mining in terms of inspiring the next iteration, but it would be a missed opportunity to go back to the 90s.

 

[Silent]

If I had to make one livery for the entire fleet (which I would prefer not to, I think TfL is a good example of how you can have multiple liveries that are clearly part of the same brand), I'd take the Southeastern livery, change the doors to red, and add a white stripe along the train where the current logo is, broken up with the double arrow logo at both ends.

I think the blue and red need separation which white has done when both colours are used in the livery. As blue and red alone don’t go together especially if it’s darker blue with a strong red tone. I think it only does together if it’s a small quantity of blue to red or the opposite. Thinking of old stagecoach liveries and Pepsi cans.