Great Central/Southern Railway merger?

[Sad Sprinter]

I’ve been dreaming about the Great Central again. What would theoretically have happened if it was merged with the Southern instead of the Great Northern/Eastern? We’ve spoken before about merging it with the GWR, which I believe would have made the most sense.

 

[Gloster]

If you mean in 1923, then it would have been a very odd choice as there was no connection and synergy between them. It would have been interesting to drive a wedge between the LMS and LNER, but it would just mean you had three competing companies for a number of major cities and would have lost some of the consolidation gained from the grouping.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

If you mean in 1923, then it would have been a very odd choice as there was no connection and synergy between them. It would have been interesting to drive a wedge between the LMS and LNER, but it would just mean you had three competing companies for a number of major cities and would have lost some of the consolidation gained from the grouping.

Would there not be a usefulness in creating a North/South freight spine under one company?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Sir Edward Watkin's vision of Manchester to Paris via a Channel Tunnel?

Whoever took on the GC would be lumbered with the debt accrued from the London Extension as the LNER was.

 

[Magdalia]

I’ve been dreaming about the Great Central again. What would theoretically have happened if it was merged with the Southern instead of the Great Northern/Eastern? We’ve spoken before about merging it with the GWR, which I believe would have made the most sense.

There is some merit in the proposal to put the Great Central in with the Great Western, there were some synergies, but I can see none for putting the Great Central in with the constituents of the Southern.

We have to start with the basics: what is the rail route that joins the two parts of this new company together?

Then, what is the traffic, actual and potential, that is going to be conveyed between those two parts, bearing in mind that, in 1922, freight was significantly more important than passengers?

Would there not be a usefulness in creating a North/South freight spine under one company?

What freight traffic would that be? And was it already provided for by other companies?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

There is some merit in the proposal to put the Great Central in with the Great Western,

Yes' I've thought that too.

We have to start with the basics: what is the rail route that joins the two parts of this new company together?

Well there was the branch from the West London Line to the New North Mainline that ran through Acton. Plus the Dudden Hill line, although that technically was Midland territory.

 

[Magdalia]

Well there was the branch from the West London Line to the New North Mainline that ran through Acton

I thought that was Great Western?

Plus the Dudden Hill line, although that technically was Midland territory.

Do you mean Dudding Hill? I think that only links with the Southern via the North and South Western Junction, which would have been part of the LMS.

 

[Gloster]

There was no route from the GC to the SR without using either LMS or GWR metals. Either Neasden South Junction to the Midland at Neasden Junction, then to the North & South Western Junction (London & North Western, Midland and North London) at Acton Wells Junction, then to the SR at South Acton Junction, Kew Curve East Junction or Kew Old Junction. Or GW to Viaduct Junction, West London (GW and LNWR) to West London Extension Junction to join the West London Extension (GW, LNWR, LSWR and LBSCR) which connects to the three main SR companies at Clapham Junction.

 

[AdrianHudson]

I’ve been dreaming about the Great Central again. What would theoretically have happened if it was merged with the Southern instead of the Great Northern/Eastern? We’ve spoken before about merging it with the GWR, which I believe would have made the most sense.

A GCR jointly owned by the GNR & GWR could have been very interesting.

 

[Helvellyn]

What if the GC had ended up in the LMS and the Midland in the LNER?