SWR driver changeover points on long services

[MarkHaz]

Can anyone tell me if there are any SWR services where the driver is changed part-way through?
I'm guessing this would only happen on long services like Waterloo to Exeter and Waterloo to Weymouth (and perhaps back in the day, Waterloo to Bristol Temple Meads).
Where do these changeovers happen, and do drivers ever to the full run in one go?

I think I heard that they change at either Southampton or Bournemouth on the Weymouth services.
I'm guessing that they maybe change at Salisbury for the Exeter runs?

Thanks in advance!

 

[godfreycomplex]

Usually Bournemouth for Weymouth and Salisbury and/or Yeovil for Exeter.

Weymouth is often done in one hit with no changes, however Exeter never is

 

[TheManBehind]

Quite a few, when I was working there at least! Farnham, Woking, Basingstoke, Guildford were all locations for changeovers on various services, as well as Staines or Aldershot.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Weymouth is often done in one hit with no changes, however Exeter never is

In BR days both Waterloo and Exeter had turns where drivers and guards worked all the way through.

 

[godfreycomplex]

In BR days both Waterloo and Exeter had turns where drivers and guards worked all the way through.

There was great rancour when the Mule (well, the top half of it) came off Exeter crews’ cards in the early 90s, IIRC

 

[Gloster]

In BR days both Waterloo and Exeter had turns where drivers and guards worked all the way through.

I think that that only came with the takeover of the service by Class 50s in May 1980 as the timetable with Class 33 was just too tight: a change took place at Salisbury. It may have been even later when flexible rostering came in.

I have noticed that a number of Portsmouth Direct services change at both Guildford and Fratton.

 

[MarkHaz]

Usually Bournemouth for Weymouth and Salisbury and/or Yeovil for Exeter.

Weymouth is often done in one hit with no changes, however Exeter never is

What determines whether Weymouth is done in "one hit" or not? Is it that fast services are done in one go, and semi-fast/stopping services get a crew change?
I presume that the crew change happens when the train divides at Bournemouth and that the London crew goes back to London and the Bournemouth crew takes the front half of the train to Weymouth and the rear half into the sidings or down to Poole?

 

[Ashley Hill]

There was great rancour when the Mule (well, the top half of it) came off Exeter crews’ cards in the early 90s, IIRC

It was seen as premier work as they were mileage turns. SWT never wanted any staff based at Exeter and the work went to Salisbury. The drivers were accommodated in other links but the Senior Conductors (as they were by then) were made redundant, some transferred to Salisbury some went to InterCity.
Also at this time I believe Waterloo crews stopped working through to Exeter.

 

[LUYMun]

Personal observations note that WofE services change over at Basingstoke or Salisbury.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Personal observations note that WofE services change over at Basingstoke or Salisbury.

Exeter guards also had work where change-overs took place at those station.

 

[Stampy]

Salisbury, as when I caught a Exeter-Waterloo service back in early March - our train was delayed at Salisbury awaiting a "new" crew....

 

[godfreycomplex]

What determines whether Weymouth is done in "one hit" or not? Is it that fast services are done in one go, and semi-fast/stopping services get a crew change?
I presume that the crew change happens when the train divides at Bournemouth and that the London crew goes back to London and the Bournemouth crew takes the front half of the train to Weymouth and the rear half into the sidings or down to Poole?

It depends really, drivers have a maximum driving time and a maximum time before a break.

At least one late job for Bournemouth crew, for example, is Bournemouth - Weymouth - Waterloo (break) Waterloo - Poole - depot.

Sometimes it’s more productive to do it that way, sometimes it’s more productive to do something else.

Last I was familiar with Weymouth diagrams it was an exact 50/50 split, either London and back or “something else”. Mostly that “something else” consisted of shuttling up and down to Bournemouth, to relieve/be relieved by Bournemouth, Waterloo, Fratton & Northam crews when they got there

 

[craigybagel]

It'll be near impossible to work out any patterns. Some services will have the same driver all the way through, some will change over once, some multiple times.

It's rare you'll find a route that 1 round trip adds up to the exact hours needed for a full day, so you'll have smaller trips added in as well.
To use one of the examples here; a Weymouth driver can work up to Waterloo, has a PNB, then work back to Weymouth again and finish, in around 7 hours. Nice for the driver - but for a company building a roster around an average 8:45 day length you can't have too many days like that before you run into issues. So you'll need some days where they do multiple shorter trips instead - or trips where in one direction they work a stopping service part of the way, then pick up the fast further along the line, or vice versa.

Then you need to take into account that SWR is such a vast complex company with multiple depots. Bournemouth and Weymouth sign west of Poole, but east of there you add Fratton, Northam and Waterloo into the mix. After Southampton you have Basingstoke, and even more still as you get closer to London. All will require some degree of work over the route to ensure their drivers keep competent, and that may involve driving Weymouth services and handing over to someone else down the line.

Traincrew diagramming is rarely as simple or as obvious as you would expect.

 

[Kite159]

The main driver/guard changeover on West of England line services is at Salisbury, however they can also change at Yeovil Junction & occasionally at Basingstoke [mainly on Sundays]. The longest drive is likely Waterloo to Yeovil Junction on the 17:53 to Pen Mill [driver changes at Yeovil Junction for the trip down the hill]. Sometimes the driver changes at Waterloo [i.e. they work Salisbury - Waterloo then do a Desiro to Southampton & back to London before heading back to Salisbury]

 

[MarkHaz]

It'll be near impossible to work out any patterns. Some services will have the same driver all the way through, some will change over once, some multiple times.

It's rare you'll find a route that 1 round trip adds up to the exact hours needed for a full day, so you'll have smaller trips added in as well.
To use one of the examples here; a Weymouth driver can work up to Waterloo, has a PNB, then work back to Weymouth again and finish, in around 7 hours. Nice for the driver - but for a company building a roster around an average 8:45 day length you can't have too many days like that before you run into issues. So you'll need some days where they do multiple shorter trips instead - or trips where in one direction they work a stopping service part of the way, then pick up the fast further along the line, or vice versa.

Then you need to take into account that SWR is such a vast complex company with multiple depots. Bournemouth and Weymouth sign west of Poole, but east of there you add Fratton, Northam and Waterloo into the mix. After Southampton you have Basingstoke, and even more still as you get closer to London. All will require some degree of work over the route to ensure their drivers keep competent, and that may involve driving Weymouth services and handing over to someone else down the line.

Traincrew diagramming is rarely as simple or as obvious as you would expect.

Thanks for the insight there. I didn't realise it was that fluid.
I assume sometimes drivers take train into/out of depots (maybe at the start/end of their shift), and at other times they get off at a station (like Bournemouth), have a PNB and then pick up another train from the same station?

With this in mind, what are the common points along the Waterloo-Weymouth and Waterloo-Exeter routes where drivers could potentially swap over aside from Waterloo, Bournemouth, Weymouth and Salisbury?
I'm guessing Woking, Basingstoke and Southampton Central. What about Clapham Jct or Poole?

 

[hermit]

Not strictly relevant to the OPs query, but Island Line crews regularly change over at Ryde St Johns.

 

[greaterwest]

Crews will change over at Woking on most mainline services booked via Chertsey when engineering work shuts the mainline.

 

[Bigfoot]

Crews will change over at Woking on most mainline services booked via Chertsey when engineering work shuts the mainline.

Or Basingstoke, and occasionally Guildford.

 

[185102]

Suspect there will be a Network Rail imposed ban on crew changes at Clapham Jct. Due to how busy it is.

 

[Matt Taylor]

A Southsea to Waterloo service has the potential for driver/guard changes at Fratton, Guildford and Woking. Essentially a crew change can take place anywhere that has mess room facilities, Waterloo, Woking, Guildford, Farnham, Basingstoke, Eastleigh, Southampton, Bournemouth, Poole, Weymouth, Salisbury, Yeovil, Staines, Strawberry Hill are the normal ones.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Suspect there will be a Network Rail imposed ban on crew changes at Clapham Jct. Due to how busy it is.

There is indeed (see also Wimbledon through most of the day)

 

[Route115?]

I picked up a Woking drivers roster that had been left on the platform a few years ago and it seemed to involve shuttling between Woking and Waterloo most of the day relieving other drivers. I thought that the aim was to avoid turns like that but, it will often be necessary to relieve crews booking on and off duty en route. Two thoughts - part of the TPE meltown last year was due to too many en route reliefs, and even with a full establishment of staff (which wasn't the case for TPE) en route reliefs are problematic when a service falls to bits owing to disruptions, but secondly, I understand that during the peak SWR tries to get as many trains as possible to arrive and depart with the same crew. Ideally crew reliefs need to be done where there are sidings to stable trains where the relieving crew is held up on delayed services.

When I worked for Chiltern most (not all) crew changes were done at the terminals - Princes Risborough was a major exception - and the service did seem to recover very quickly after disruption.

 

[Bigfoot]

I picked up a Woking drivers roster that had been left on the platform a few years ago and it seemed to involve shuttling between Woking and Waterloo most of the day relieving other drivers.

More than likely that was on a weekend of diversions due to engineering work. They alongside Basingstoke, and some of Waterloo, Wimbledon and I think Strawberry Hill crews are the only ones who sign via Chertsey/Staines to take the long distance services up to Waterloo. It's quite normal to have 3 return trips and some other bits when the line through Wimbledon is closed relieving longer distance services at Woking/Basingstoke/Guildford. Sometimes it is even Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo the long way which probably feels like an eternity.

 

[GordonT]

Ideally crew reliefs need to be done where there are sidings to stable trains where the relieving crew is held up on delayed services.

And presumably during the peak there will be as few as possible crew breaks being taken at a time when the maximum number of units are operational?

 

[MarkHaz]

Thanks everyone for the answers. Very helpful