Livery under Great British Railways

[vuzzeho]

We might never get to see the full branding then!

Greater Anglia is really good. They’ll probably be getting it in full.

 

[Sorcerer]

Quite possibly. There will be a general election in 2029 at the latest, so unless it's all 'done and dusted' by then, it's quite possible that a new government could reverse the policy and we could working with a different set of policies.

I doubt that any new incoming government will seek to go through the trouble of reversing any policy decisions on GBR when there will be bigger fish to fry. Even the Tories recognised when it wasn't working and have so far put more operators back into public hands than Labour (LNER, Northern, Southeastern and TPE).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I doubt that any new incoming government will seek to go through the trouble of reversing any policy decisions on GBR when there will be bigger fish to fry. Even the Tories recognised when it wasn't working and have so far put more operators back into public hands than Labour (LNER, Northern, Southeastern and TPE).

I'd add to that that Reform is populist, and there is scarcely a better supported policy out there than the renationalisation of the railways (which begs a question as to why it's taken so long to pursue such a policy), unless GBR is very bad and they can look at it like the NHS.

 

[Transilien]

This article suggests there is a completely brand new livery that will eventually be the uniform look, BUT, quite cleverly, they’re not beginning the relivery process on TOCs (obviously bar this first one) until performance improves enough on them.

Train firms will need to 'earn the right' to carry nationalisation rebranding

The Government is set to mark an important milestone in rail renationalisation plans when South Western Railways is brought back into public ownership as a new-look design for trains is revealed

www.mirror.co.uk

​

This sounds like an excuse not to invest in new branding! Honestly I think that new branding would be already an improvement in the quality of service as it represents to passengers a breath of fresh air and can also make GBR more than just a pie in the sky promise of a better railway in the future.

 

[Mikey C]

What bizarre logic? You either have a shiny new world, or you don't, and the livery is a key part of that, as shown by the yellow buses in Greater Manchester.

No way will we get to the next election with NONE of the trains repainted, as that would be an admission that 3 or 4 years of public control had made no difference.

 

[Brubulus]

What bizarre logic? You either have a shiny new world, or you don't, and the livery is a key part of that, as shown by the yellow buses in Greater Manchester.

No way will we get to the next election with NONE of the trains repainted, as that would be an admission that 3 or 4 years of public control had made no difference.

I can understand attempting to deceive the public into associating high performing operators with GBR and low performing operators with "the old privatised system" regardless of the real owner. The number of people who still think LNER is owned by a private company/foreign government is shocking, with "privatisation" being blamed for DfT failings instead of the DfT.

 

[Mikey C]

I can understand attempting to deceive the public into associating high performing operators with GBR and low performing operators with "the old privatised system" regardless of the real owner. The number of people who still think LNER is owned by a private company/foreign government is shocking, with "privatisation" being blamed for DfT failings instead of the DfT.

But repainting say the Greater Anglia Stadlers into GBR livery, because they are a popular and high quality offering, wouldn't fool anyone, as the regular users would know the new trains came before GBR, and would just consider a livery change a waste of money.

And there will be a lag between deciding an operator is a high performing one, and the repaint anyway.

 

[vuzzeho]

But repainting say the Greater Anglia Stadlers into GBR livery, because they are a popular and high quality offering, wouldn't fool anyone, as the regular users would know the new trains came before GBR, and would just consider a livery change a waste of money.

And there will be a lag between deciding an operator is a high performing one, and the repaint anyway.

The Stadlers are nice but GA isn't good just because of them. They're good because they operate things well and seem to run a tight ship. People won't think GBR made it better; most of them will have known it was good. However, by only associating the GBR brand with good operators, they create an association in the minds of users between GBR and high quality service. Of course, that thinking mainly covers those 'in-the-know', like regular casual passengers. For less frequent passengers or new users, if they get on a lovely, timely, well-run GBR train, they will think GBR is lovely, timely, and well-run.

I just wonder what they'll class as a 'high performing operator'. They seem to be pretty happy with LNER lately.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The Stadlers are nice but GA isn't good just because of them. They're good because they operate things well and seem to run a tight ship.

And because they have a pretty much self contained network besides Ely to Stansted/Norwich That must help.

 

[Zomboid]

And because they have a pretty much self contained network besides Ely to Stansted/Norwich That must help.

As they say in sport, you can only beat the opponent in front of you.
I guess it means that GA have a higher maximum potential performance than a complex system that interfaces with just about every other operator there is like Northern or XC. But they still deserve credit for running a good service when they do.

 

[Class15]

And because they have a pretty much self contained network besides Ely to Stansted/Norwich That must help.

They also have to deal with freight, a lot of it, on many different routes, as well as the single line sections around Soham which are problematic and the Ely Junction. SWR is also largely self-contained, and, well…

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

SWR is also largely self-contained, and, well…

Is it heck.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

As they say in sport, you can only beat the opponent in front of you.
I guess it means that GA have a higher maximum potential performance than a complex system that interfaces with just about every other operator there is like Northern or XC. But they still deserve credit for running a good service when they do.

I think it’s poor the amount of Norwich services with ad hoc lack of first class and catering, and also the short forms on West Anglia, but other than that they’re alright yes.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Is it heck.

SWR's route scope (map attached) is, largely, self contained. Granted, some route mileage is shared with Southern, GWR, XC, DB, FL, GBRf.

 

[Class15]

SWR's route scope is, largely, self contained. Granted, SWR shares some route mileage with Southern, GWR, DB, FL, GBRf.

Indeed. If we are going to include freight operations, then GA is hardly self-contained for any of its routes…

 

[Brubulus]

And because they have a pretty much self contained network besides Ely to Stansted/Norwich That must help.

I think it's more the highly padded timetables (compared to other operators. I'd guess a key reason for the high performance is that GA has more timetable padding than any other operator given their routes and trains, even if XC and other intercity operators have slightly more in theory.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

SWR's route scope is, largely, self contained. Granted, SWR shares some route mileage with Southern, GWR, DB, FL, GBRf.

It’s really not outside of the suburban network.

Reading - Basingstoke - Southampton - Bournemouth is all shared with XC.

Yeovil - Westbury - Salisbury - Romsey - Southampton - Portsmouth/Havant is all shared with GWR and/or Southern, via Redbridge, Chandlers Ford, Swanwick AND Hedge End.

Epsom - Dorking is shared and until recently Epsom - Guildford.

Aldershot - Guildford and Reading - Wokingham is shared with GWR North Downs services.

Mind you, we’re really drifting now.

 

[Mikey C]

The Stadlers are nice but GA isn't good just because of them. They're good because they operate things well and seem to run a tight ship. People won't think GBR made it better; most of them will have known it was good. However, by only associating the GBR brand with good operators, they create an association in the minds of users between GBR and high quality service. Of course, that thinking mainly covers those 'in-the-know', like regular casual passengers. For less frequent passengers or new users, if they get on a lovely, timely, well-run GBR train, they will think GBR is lovely, timely, and well-run.

I just wonder what they'll class as a 'high performing operator'. They seem to be pretty happy with LNER lately.

I'm not sure any operator operating IETs with the collapsed ironing board seats would give GBR good publicity!

 

[generalnerd]

The Stadlers are nice but GA isn't good just because of them. They're good because they operate things well and seem to run a tight ship. People won't think GBR made it better; most of them will have known it was good. However, by only associating the GBR brand with good operators, they create an association in the minds of users between GBR and high quality service. Of course, that thinking mainly covers those 'in-the-know', like regular casual passengers. For less frequent passengers or new users, if they get on a lovely, timely, well-run GBR train, they will think GBR is lovely, timely, and well-run.

I just wonder what they'll class as a 'high performing operator'. They seem to be pretty happy with LNER lately.

They probably mean anything that’s intercity or goes to more well off areas. Northern is out of the question, even if it’s not as bad as it once was (locally)

 

[Rick1984]

For those who haven’t seen, this is the new GBR “branding” on 701046. It’ll begin running services on Sunday.
View attachment 180501

From another thread
Link shows SWR train with GBR branding in pace of "Southwestern Railways"


obviously can't tell anything from a logo. But if they use that shade of blue rather than plain white that's a start. I still worry about the Union flag element. I think they will go full on rather than subtle and cllassy

 

[Russel]

From another thread
Link shows SWR train with GBR branding in pace of "Southwestern Railways"


obviously can't tell anything from a logo. But if they use that shade of blue rather than plain white that's a start. I still worry about the Union flag element. I think they will go full on rather than subtle and cllassy

Agreed, the Union Jack does concern me, I just hope it's tasteful and not a 100mph Reform UK billboard...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, the Union Jack does concern me, I just hope it's tasteful and not a 100mph Reform UK billboard...

British Airways livery uses a variant of the flag tastefully in my view. Though I guess it can't be too close to that, even though the tail "flying flag" would probably suit the nose of a train quite well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2025 ==

(from 701 discussion)

Isn’t it purely applied for the photo opportunity?

I'm sure it is, but it's still rather an anticlimax! I'd have expected them to at least fully vinyl one vehicle or the two ends. More effort goes into Pride trains to be honest! (Not that there's anything wrong with that)

 

[Tetragon213]

I think a Union Flag could still be tastefully integrated into a livery. Whether or not the artists responsible can pull it off remains to be seen.

I'm instantly reminded of the wonderful liveries that Concorde has worn over the years, all of which have had bits of the Union Flag in there.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Agreed, the Union Jack does concern me, I just hope it's tasteful and not a 100mph Reform UK billboard...

What concerns me is the increasingly common suggestion that the presence of our national flag has to be linked to Reform. It is possible to have some national pride without being a fan of Farage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2025 ==

More effort goes into Pride trains to be honest! (Not that there's anything wrong with that)

Yes that’s interesting isn’t it! I hadn’t even thought of that. And LNER’s vinyls for silly things like “Eleanor,” etc.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

What concerns me is the increasingly common suggestion that the presence of our national flag has to be linked to Reform. It is possible to have some national pride without being a fan of Farage.

Yes exactly

 

[Sorcerer]

What concerns me is the increasingly common suggestion that the presence of our national flag has to be linked to Reform. It is possible to have some national pride without being a fan of Farage.

Much as I am an advocate of reclaiming the flag from right-leaning nationalists, at the moment we haven't managed this yet, and given the current state of politics with Labour trying to out-Reform Reform it shouldn't be surprising that people will associate GBR's use of a Union Jack with similar sentiment. For what it's worth I am a fan of using it as a basis for the livery as long as it's subtle and fits the train design.

 

[Zomboid]

Personally I'm not a fan of a jumble of primary coloured triangles being the basis for a livery.

No issue with there being some influence in the design, but literal interpretation of the flag is probably not going to end to looking great IMO.

 

[The Laziest]

Personally, I would really like to see a livery based on ScotRail’s saltire, with the Union Jack replacing the Scottish flag. The flag is tastefully integrated in the livery and it could easily be done with the Union Jack as well. Scotland may not appreciate that, however.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder what will happen to c2c if they’re not planning on changing brands just yet? It‘s hardly a neutral name.

 

[Brubulus]

Personally, I would really like to see a livery based on ScotRail’s saltire, with the Union Jack replacing the Scottish flag. The flag is tastefully integrated in the livery and it could easily be done with the Union Jack as well. Scotland may not appreciate that, however.

It could work, though the single-colour approach would not work in the rest of the country, having it flow into something approximating the Network South East and Intercity liveries, but with a dark blue instead of the light blue and Black could work, though it might be slightly too 80s and not modern enough, however the NSE livery still looks really good today.

 

[Tobberz]

So by the end of the year... 7? TOCs will be run by the DfT, but not under GBR. This is out of about ~10 franchised, non-regional operators.

One wonders, at this rate, what the tipping point will be. Surely we can't end up at the end of 2025 with an almost entirely nationalised system without any unifying branding or livery?