Trains with First Class, but no fare available?

[rail-britain]

I have an unusual request from a group
They want to travel First Class between Glasgow Central and Motherwell
I appreciate the ScotRail website has been faulty for the last few hours
I therefore tried Cross Country (one of the available services), East Coast (one of the available services), and Virgin Trains (one of the available services)

So what's the deal?
The trains (they have selected to travel on) operate with First Class and clearly show travel is permitted, between Glasgow Central and Motherwell
I am almost of the opinion it is the same as if a ScotRail service is operated with First Class, but no First Class fare is available (example Glasgow QS - Falkirk Grahamston)

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There is no first class fare between Glasgow and Motherwell.

They used to allow staff to create a first class fare, but I haven't seen anything like that since the NFM became web based and TOCs replaced Aptis.

If they are travelling at the weekend, then there is always weekend first.

 

[Dewedin]

If travel is at weekends and they use Anytime tickets then I believe they can go in First on Virgin.

 

[Failed Unit]

Wasn't it until recently all Motherwell stops we stop to pick up only for IC services?

 

[FGWman]

Yes in the days before Advantix if no first class fare was shown and first class accomodation was offered on the train you could simply add 50% to the standard class fare and that would be the first class price.

It helped to keep the size of the fares manual down as you did not need to include first class fares for thoses routes where only 1 or 2 trains a day offered first class.

However with the current system you are no longer allowed to create fares. Its either there or it isnt. I think it would confuse the orcats because it would not know how to divide up the revenue because no one has told it.

What usually happens in these situations is that people get to know about it. They sit in first class and when the guard comes around will smile nicely and say they tried to buy a first class ticket but one was not available. Guard will then complain to their manager about people sitting in first without a first class ticket and the next fares round a first class fare will be loaded into the system.

 

[Failed Unit]

Lincoln - Newark and Nottingham had no first class fare. I guess as only one train per day offered it probably better than setting it, people buying it and say at 9am and not having the option to use it. Saying that, it may exist now!

 

[rail-britain]

It's not a weekend, it is a Thursday for business use

First Class fares are available from other originating stations to the north of Glasgow, such as Larbert to Motherwell
The timetables clearly show Motherwell as a destination (southbound) and pickup point (northbound), hence why the Standard fares appear on all but Virgin Trains

Looks like I will need to suggest they purchase Larbert to Motherwell then, as this is the only option I can find that meets their requirements
The alternative would be Glasgow to Edinburgh (via Motherwell)

 

[radamfi]

What usually happens in these situations is that people get to know about it. They sit in first class and when the guard comes around will smile nicely and say they tried to buy a first class ticket but one was not available. Guard will then complain to their manager about people sitting in first without a first class ticket and the next fares round a first class fare will be loaded into the system.

So does that mean a free trip?

 

[First class]

An increasingly common route is Liverpool-Liverpool South Parkway. TPE and LM both have First Class seating (and run fairly frequently). No first class fare exists.

I suppose you could say that First Class is NOT available to passengers travelling between those stations, (as it could be for those going further afield).

London Midland would likely Penalty Fare you for sitting in 1st with a Std ticket, but what could TPE really do?

 

[gnolife]

I'd be mightily annoyed if LM tried PFing me between South Parkway and Lime Street, since it aint a PF area

 

[hairyhandedfool]

So does that mean a free trip?

If I was the guard, they'd be buying the cheapest first class fare valid for their journey, no matter how far short they'd be travelling!

 

[First class]

I'd be mightily annoyed if LM tried PFing me between South Parkway and Lime Street, since it aint a PF area

Think you will find it is !!!

Penalty Fares apply when travelling with Merseyrail and London Midland. Been like that for at least a year. RPIs tend to get on at Crewe, go to either Runcorn or Liverpool S Parkway and go back to Crewe.

Full details http://www.londonmidland.com/download/9800.7/revised-penalty-fares-booklet/

 

[FGWman]

It wont be a free trip. You will still have to buy tickets but only standard class ones are available. And I would like to see them PF you. PF for what - a fare that does not exist !!

 

[First class]

It wont be a free trip. You will still have to buy tickets but only standard class ones are available. And I would like to see them PF you. PF for what - a fare that does not exist !!

Travelling in a superior class. You either don't have a ticket, (therefore PF anyway), or have a Standard Class ticket, (therefore PF). (Assumes LPY and LIV are always staffed or TVM present).

 

[rail-britain]

Intriquing response from XC :
We do not operate any services between Glasgow Central and Motherwell
So I've sent them a reply, and details of the services and Standard fares they apply, also screen shot from their website

Moving on, if all six customers have a Standard Open Return for Glasgow Central - Motherwell and travel in First Class, what penalty can be applied?

 

[All Line Rover]

We do not operate any services between Glasgow Central and Motherwell

Fantastic Customer Relations from XC once again! :roll:

 

[rail-britain]

Fantastic Customer Relations from XC once again!

It's quite a typical response from them, I have to make a reply and point out the actual service, options, fares, etc

Earlier this year I was trying to book a seat on the HST to Glasgow Central, again they advised they did not operate such trains
I sent the seat plan and screen shot, advising again they did not have such a train in use and would report the error for fixing
I made the booking from the London Midland instead, after refreshing the screen three times just by luck it gave the right seat number

However, to advise they do not operate services between Glasgow Central and Motherwell sounds rather rehearsed, such that they do not want such customers
Yet, they will happily accept enquiries from Motherwell southbound, and between Glasgow / Motherwell and Edinburgh

 

[barrykas]

Moving on, if all six customers have a Standard Open Return for Glasgow Central - Motherwell and travel in First Class, what penalty can be applied?

The wording in The Manual, for upgrade in one direction, is:EITHER the difference between the fare paid and the sum of the appropriate Standard Single for one direction and the appropriate First Single for the other direction OR the difference up to the appropriate First Return for the journey.

Note the use of the word "appropriate" there (my emphasis). It could be argued (though unsuccessfully, I expect) that the "appropriate" First Single/Return would be one to Lockerbie or Edinburgh, depending on what train you're on...

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Blindtraveler]

aha! Another one getting odd responses from XC - I recently tried to book 15 seats for myself and coleegs to attend a days course just over the road from gLC and was flatly told by there group travel desk that they did not opperate north of HYM with the acception of there services via Fife! Had to go through travel centre at Waverley instead and glad I did as surprise surprise the vomiter was well loaded both ways.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
if they dont want STD customers, what hope is there of them being interested in first?