New US traveler with questions

[marklyn]

We are planning to buy 1st class tickets for 4 from Inverness to Edinburgh Aug 15 but we're having a hard time understanding some things.
This is compounded by the fact we have such poor train service here in the US so train travel experience is low. Be gentle please
We were told that can can't get tickets until 90 days out so we want to do so as soon as they're available in hopes of us 4 sitting together (table). We think this would be in about a week from date of this post.
We are confused about the split ticket thing and can't seem to find enough info to make us understand this concept.
Our interpretation is that the ticket is 'split' among different journey points to save money. Not sure how that saves money but is there a way to know if we'd have to switch seats or cars along that journey?
We'd be ok with paying a more premium price to stay together the whole journey if possible so we can discuss trip related plans.
Also, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out a way to determine the type of train we'd be on for that date/time and where to find a diagram of first class cars for seating and luggage storage.
Any help or insights would be really appreciated. I've scoured as many websites related to this and still not clear so thought I'd ask for a more direct answer here.
Thanks!

 

[hexagon789]

We are planning to buy 1st class tickets for 4 from Inverness to Edinburgh Aug 15 but we're having a hard time understanding some things.

If this is on a ScotRail service, it is usually cheaper to simply upgrade on the day (£15 per person), than buy First Class tickets to begin with. You simply sit yourselves in First and pay the Guard (Conductor) when they come to check tickets.

We were told that can can't get tickets until 90 days out so we want to do so as soon as they're available in hopes of us 4 sitting together (table). We think this would be in about a week from date of this post.

It is traditionally up to 12 weeks, but some companies open up reservations earlier. Weekends, engineering work and timetable change periods can all reduce the booking horizon. ScotRail are presently offering up to the 8th of August for reservation/Advance tickets.

We are confused about the split ticket thing and can't seem to find enough info to make us understand this concept.

This is where a ticket from A to B and B to C together is cheaper than one simply from A to C, if that makes sense.

Our interpretation is that the ticket is 'split' among different journey points to save money. Not sure how that saves money but is there a way to know if we'd have to switch seats or cars along that journey?

That is essentially the gist of it. You should be told when booking the tickets if given seat reservations what seats and coach (car) they are for and where they apply between. I'm not sure whether ScotRail's booking system would try and keep you the same seats but this forum has a ticketing site which will allow you to manually select seats.

Also, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out a way to determine the type of train we'd be on for that date/time and where to find a diagram of first class cars for seating and luggage storage.

If its ScotRail, they do list it in their own timetables - services operated by refurbished InterCity 125 sets are given an 'I7C' in the header, they also have a list of such services on their First Class travel page on their website. If it isn't an I7C, the First Class will be in one of the 3-car Class 170 DMUs (railcars), some services are mixed 158 and 170 railcars but only the 170s have First Class seating.


If I've inadvertently used any railway terminology you don't understand please do ask back for clarification, I did try and keep it straightforward but sometimes you miss things.

 

[Gwr12345]

We are planning to buy 1st class tickets for 4 from Inverness to Edinburgh Aug 15 but we're having a hard time understanding some things.

These tickets should be available to buy in the next 1-2 weeks.

We think this would be in about a week from date of this post.

Correct. Scotrail are open up to 8th August, next set of tickets should be released on Friday (23rd)

We are confused about the split ticket thing and can't seem to find enough info to make us understand this concept.
Our interpretation is that the ticket is 'split' among different journey points to save money. Not sure how that saves money but is there a way to know if we'd have to switch seats or cars along that journey?

Due to the way advance tickets in the UK are allocated due to demand, often if demand is lower at certain part, this often leads to it being cheaper to 'split' your ticket. I.e. You want to travel from A-C, so you buy a ticket from A-B then B-C.

The easiest way to do this is from the forum's site which will calculate the cheapest combination automatically, and provide you with all the tickets you need.

is there a way to know if we'd have to switch seats or cars along that journey?

The forum's site has a seat selector so you can make sure you have the same seats throughout.

Also, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out a way to determine the type of train we'd be on for that date/time and where to find a diagram of first class cars for seating and luggage storage.

Heres a list from the scotrail website of all Inter7City trains

04:54
12:48
18:52

And these trains are operated by a class 170

06:38
10:50

THE alternative is the Highland Chieftan operated by LNER, but this is usually busy at departs around 0800
Luggage storage is either above you in the overhead racks, or for larger cases at the ends of the coach.

As I'm writing it I realise Hexagon 789 has answered more of your questions, but I hope this provides some more information.

 

[marklyn]

If this is on a ScotRail service, it is usually cheaper to simply upgrade on the day (£15 per person), than buy First Class tickets to begin with. You simply sit yourselves in First and pay the Guard (Conductor) when they come to check tickets.



It is traditionally up to 12 weeks, but some companies open up reservations earlier. Weekends, engineering work and timetable change periods can all reduce the booking horizon. ScotRail are presently offering up to the 8th of August for reservation/Advance tickets.


This is where a ticket from A to B and B to C together is cheaper than one simply from A to C, if that makes sense.


That is essentially the gist of it. You should be told when booking the tickets if given seat reservations what seats and coach (car) they are for and where they apply between. I'm not sure whether ScotRail's booking system would try and keep you the same seats but this forum has a ticketing site which will allow you to manually select seats.


If its ScotRail, they do list it in their own timetables - services operated by refurbished InterCity 125 sets are given an 'I7C' in the header, they also have a list of such services on their First Class travel page on their website. If it isn't an I7C, the First Class will be in one of the 3-car Class 170 DMUs (railcars), some services are mixed 158 and 170 railcars but only the 170s have First Class seating.


If I've inadvertently used any railway terminology you don't understand please do ask back for clarification, I did try and keep it straightforward but sometimes you miss things.

Nice info, I appreciate your detailed response. I'd like to follow up on a couple of things.
I suppose we thought we'd better snag those 1st class tickets as soon as they become available to help ensure we can all sit together. I check for the earliest tickets, first class, and Scotrail now shows only 2 available instead of 4 earlier. Is my thinking off on this?
Which companies might I check to see if tickets are open sooner? I've only been on the Scotrail website.
I saw your response on getting tickets here, and they seem to be more comprehensive in seat preferences. If I choose the table seating option for the 4 of us, is this likely a table with 4 seats (not 2) facing each other?
Thanks again.

 

[Gwr12345]

Which companies might I check to see if tickets are open sooner? I've only been on the Scotrail website.

Nowhere really. Some operators have tickets available earlier on their own sites, but not Scotrail.

 

[marklyn]

These tickets should be available to buy in the next 1-2 weeks.


Correct. Scotrail are open up to 8th August, next set of tickets should be released on Friday (23rd)


Due to the way advance tickets in the UK are allocated due to demand, often if demand is lower at certain part, this often leads to it being cheaper to 'split' your ticket. I.e. You want to travel from A-C, so you buy a ticket from A-B then B-C.

The easiest way to do this is from the forum's site which will calculate the cheapest combination automatically, and provide you with all the tickets you need.

The forum's site has a seat selector so you can make sure you have the same seats throughout.

Heres a list from the scotrail website of all Inter7City trains

And these trains are operated by a class 170

THE alternative is the Highland Chieftan operated by LNER, but this is usually busy at departs around 0800
Luggage storage is either above you in the overhead racks, or for larger cases at the ends of the coach.

As I'm writing it I realise Hexagon 789 has answered more of your questions, but I hope this provides some more information.

Great info again, after I had already asked more questions but these answers help. Thanks so much!

 

[marklyn]

Nowhere really. Some operators have tickets available earlier on their own sites, but not Scotrail.

So, is using this website to buy tickets and specify seating requests ultimately tied to Scotrail then?
I chatted with them online a bit this morning and they (Scotrail) indicated I just buy first class tickets and then call them to get seating setup. I was left confused wondering what if there were not 4 seats (table) together after booking a specific time. I'd have to choose another time/train?

 

[signed]

You can find all Scotrail seating plans here

Train seating plans for reservations - a Freedom of Information request to ScotRail Trains Limited

I would like, if possible, seating plans for each of the following classes of train you operate: Class 156 all variants Class 158 all variants Class 170 all variants HST Which illustrate exactly which seat numbers are allocated to each seat for reservation purposes. Yours faithfully, Wex Cel

www.whatdotheyknow.com

Choose the HST images for the Inter7City services

 

[Iskra]

Nice info, I appreciate your detailed response. I'd like to follow up on a couple of things.
I suppose we thought we'd better snag those 1st class tickets as soon as they become available to help ensure we can all sit together. I check for the earliest tickets, first class, and Scotrail now shows only 2 available instead of 4 earlier. Is my thinking off on this?
Which companies might I check to see if tickets are open sooner? I've only been on the Scotrail website.
I saw your response on getting tickets here, and they seem to be more comprehensive in seat preferences. If I choose the table seating option for the 4 of us, is this likely a table with 4 seats (not 2) facing each other?
Thanks again.

As @hexagon789 said, don’t buy first class tickets to begin with.

Buy standard class. Then take up any free seats you like in the First Class coach, and pay the £15 on board upgrade cost. This is likely to be much more cost effective.

 

[marklyn]

As @hexagon789 said, don’t buy first class tickets to begin with.

Buy standard class. Then take up any free seats you like in the First Class coach, and pay the £15 on board upgrade cost. This is likely to be much more cost effective.

So I'm clear. When the standard seats become available, buy them online. Then go back online and choose seats in the first class coach and when we are actually on the train we pay the conductor the upgrade fee? Sorry, this sounds confusing, but am I correct in this?

 

[hexagon789]

I suppose we thought we'd better snag those 1st class tickets as soon as they become available to help ensure we can all sit together.

I feel I should state that tickets and seat reservations are seperate things.

You can reserve seats independently of travel tickets.

The tickets you most likely see booking online are called Advance Single, these are fixed tickets only valid on specifically booked trains (some exceptions, but unnecessarily complicated in this context).

Advance Singles can sell out but flexible tickets do not and you do not need a seat reservation to travel on any train in the UK (sleeper trains excepted).

I check for the earliest tickets, first class, and Scotrail now shows only 2 available instead of 4 earlier. Is my thinking off on this?

That simply means there were 4 tickets at the price point at that time and now there are two, not the actual number of seats available per se.

So I'm clear. When the standard seats become available, buy them online. Then go back online and choose seats in the first class coach and when we are actually on the train we pay the conductor the upgrade fee? Sorry, this sounds confusing, but am I correct in this?

Yes, but, for the First Class coach - either just take ANY available seats on the day or if you do want to reserve seats in First Class just make standalone reservations - GWR's website will allow this for instance.

 

[marklyn]

I feel I should state that tickets and seat reservations are seperate things.

You can reserve seats independently of travel tickets.

The tickets you most likely see booking online are called Advance Single, these are fixed tickets only valid on specifically booked trains (some exceptions, but unnecessarily complicated in this context).

Advance Singles can sell out but flexible tickets do not and you do not need a seat reservation to travel on any train in the UK (sleeper trains excepted).


That simply means there were 4 tickets at the price point at that time and now there are two, not the actual number of seats available per se.


Yes, but, for the First Class coach - either just take ANY available seats on the day or if you do want to reserve seats in First Class just make standalone reservations - GWR's website will allow this for instance.

Ok thanks for clarifying that. This has all been very helpful but I welcome any other tips for this journey.

 

[Iskra]

So I'm clear. When the standard seats become available, buy them online. Then go back online and choose seats in the first class coach and when we are actually on the train we pay the conductor the upgrade fee? Sorry, this sounds confusing, but am I correct in this?

No you just buy tickets for standard class. You don’t need to do anything online after that. All you do is board the train with your standard class tickets, but sit where you like in the First Class carriage in any seat that isn’t reserved. When the ticket check happens you just ask to upgrade and this is perfectly acceptable, and most likely cheaper.

 

[simonw]

So I'm clear. When the standard seats become available, buy them online. Then go back online and choose seats in the first class coach and when we are actually on the train we pay the conductor the upgrade fee? Sorry, this sounds confusing, but am I correct in this?

It is one of the oddities of the UK that yes you can get reservations on seats you don't have tickets for.

If you feel uncomfortable doing this, you can just buy first class tickets.

 

[marklyn]

No you just buy tickets for standard class. You don’t need to do anything online after that. All you do is board the train with your standard class tickets, but sit where you like in the First Class carriage in any seat that isn’t reserved. When the ticket check, happens you just ask to upgrade and this is perfectly acceptable.

But don't I take a chance that there my not be 4 seats together in first class if I use this approach?

 

[simonw]

But don't I take a chance that there my not be 4 seats together in first class if I use this approach?

Correct, it's not an approach I'd recommend.

 

[Iskra]

But don't I take a chance that there my not be 4 seats together in first class if I use this approach?

Yes, but I’d be surprised if it was full and as you are starting from the trains origin point, you stand an excellent chance, particularly if you arrive in good time.

As pointed out above, you can still make a first class reservation with a standard class ticket via the GWR website which will solve the issue if it is a major concern.

 

[marklyn]

Yes, but I’d be surprised if it was full and as you are starting from the trains origin point, you stand an excellent chance, particularly if you arrive in good time.

As pointed out above, you can still make a first class reservation with a standard class ticket via the GWR website which will solve the issue if it is a major concern.

OK that sounds like a reasonable approach. I secure standard class ticket, and make a first class reservation without having a first class ticket, then upgrade when I'm on the train.
It seems wonky to my way of thinking that you can reserve FC seats without having to buy them, but if you guys say this works and saves $/£, then I can try.
I guess I'll check out what standard tickets cost then add the 15£ and see what a first class ticket costs outright. If it's significant savings, then that's probably the way to go.
Thanks

 

[hexagon789]

OK that sounds like a reasonable approach. I secure standard class ticket, and make a first class reservation without having a first class ticket, then upgrade when I'm on the train.
It seems wonky to my way of thinking that you can reserve FC seats without having to buy them, but if you guys say this works and saves $/£, then I can try.
I guess I'll check out what standard tickets cost then add the 15£ and see what a first class ticket costs outright. If it's significant savings, then that's probably the way to go.
Thanks

It may be worth trying to make the standalone First Class seat reservations firstly as soon as booking opens, then when you have the seats "held", then go and buy your Standard Class tickets and you can do the upgrade for £15 method mentioned above.

 

[marklyn]

It may be worth trying to make the standalone First Class seat reservations firstly as soon as booking opens, then when you have the seats "held", then go and buy your Standard Class tickets and you can do the upgrade for £15 method mentioned above.

ok, i'll try that. I thought I had to wait until day of travel to do the upgrade. sound like that is not the case.

 

[signed]

ok, i'll try that. I thought I had to wait until day of travel to do the upgrade. sound like that is not the case.

No, the upgrade is on the day with the guard/conductor

What they are referring to is that you can, like with GWR wesbite, reserve a seat without any ticket (or the wrong ticket), then once the guard comes round, you pay the upgrade fee

 

[hexagon789]

ok, i'll try that. I thought I had to wait until day of travel to do the upgrade. sound like that is not the case.

Sorry if confusing you again.

The actual reservations for the seats themselves you would do as soon as reservations open. You would also book the Standard Class travel tickets at this time.

The upgrade fee itself, to allow you to use the First Class carriage while holding Standard Class travel tickets you would pay on the actual day.

I do hope I've clarified that better?

 

[marklyn]

No, the upgrade is on the day with the guard/conductor

What they are referring to is that you can, like with GWR wesbite, reserve a seat without any ticket (or the wrong ticket), then once the guard comes round, you pay the upgrade fee

oh duh. Sorry, told you I was unexperienced Now I understand. Thanks

 

[WesternLancer]

No you just buy tickets for standard class. You don’t need to do anything online after that. All you do is board the train with your standard class tickets, but sit where you like in the First Class carriage in any seat that isn’t reserved. When the ticket check happens you just ask to upgrade and this is perfectly acceptable, and most likely cheaper.

Surely the problem with this approach is that although it might save money it won’t secure the gaurantee that the group of four can sit together at a table. First class on the day as they can’t reserve ahead.

 

[hexagon789]

Surely the problem with this approach is that although it might save money it won’t secure the gaurantee that the group of four can sit together at a table. First class on the day as they can’t reserve ahead.

They can though, see the GWR method outlined above.

 

[WesternLancer]

Ok thanks for clarifying that. This has all been very helpful but I welcome any other tips for this journey.

Can I ask you if you can give an idea of your priorities for the journey by which I mean things like

- is getting the cheapest price more important than sitting together
- best seats with best views?
- ticket you can use on a different train on the day if you get to the station late and miss a pre-booked train
- sitting together as opposed to nearby
- most comfortable type of train
- food on board
Etc

For example. If you had to rank those options in order how might you do it? That would help us get you the best travel for your needs.

For example if I was in US doing a train trip as a one off I’d pay more for comfort views and service than I would do if it was just a uk journey I might do once a week or month.

Inverness to Edinburgh is a great scenic journey through the highlands (and there are other great routes from Inverness too) so being able to enjoy the journey comfortably with good views would be a priority for me for example.

Personally I’d strongly suggest opting for a train on the route operated by an HST inter7city train.

These are old trains but totally renovated not so long ago and are more comfortable with smoother ride, large windows etc. quite a historic uk train design in fact and imho far better than other train types on the route.

Also is this the only uk rail trip you plan? Because you also have the option of a Brit Rail pass which is v good value. I think there is a Scotland only version of this pass that is cheaper than all uk. A Brit Rail pass is only available to people not resident in uk.

 

[WesternLancer]

They can though, see the GWR method outlined above.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[WesternLancer]

We are planning to buy 1st class tickets for 4 from Inverness to Edinburgh Aug 15 but we're having a hard time understanding some things.
This is compounded by the fact we have such poor train service here in the US so train travel experience is low. Be gentle please
We were told that can can't get tickets until 90 days out so we want to do so as soon as they're available in hopes of us 4 sitting together (table). We think this would be in about a week from date of this post.
We are confused about the split ticket thing and can't seem to find enough info to make us understand this concept.
Our interpretation is that the ticket is 'split' among different journey points to save money. Not sure how that saves money but is there a way to know if we'd have to switch seats or cars along that journey?
We'd be ok with paying a more premium price to stay together the whole journey if possible so we can discuss trip related plans.
Also, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out a way to determine the type of train we'd be on for that date/time and where to find a diagram of first class cars for seating and luggage storage.
Any help or insights would be really appreciated. I've scoured as many websites related to this and still not clear so thought I'd ask for a more direct answer here.
Thanks!

We can probably also recommend websites with train interior images to help you get an idea of what to expect.

For a good overview with both detail and clear presentation the pages of the ‘the man in seat61’ website would be a great site to peruse. Uk pages. You could even look at his US pages to get an idea of how he approaches things as you can match that with your own knowledge.

The Man in Seat 61 | The train travel guide

The mobile home page of the Man in Seat 61, the guide to train travel in the UK, Europe & worldwide.

www.seat61.com

But people here do have the expertise you’ll need even down to the finer points like what sort of snacks you might get on board and where exactly to find the phone charging points

 

[marklyn]

Can I ask you if you can give an idea of your priorities for the journey by which I mean things like

- is getting the cheapest price more important than sitting together
- best seats with best views?
- ticket you can use on a different train on the day if you get to the station late and miss a pre-booked train
- sitting together as opposed to nearby
- most comfortable type of train
- food on board
Etc

For example. If you had to rank those options in order how might you do it? That would help us get you the best travel for your needs.

For example if I was in US doing a train trip as a one off I’d pay more for comfort views and service than I would do if it was just a uk journey I might do once a week or month.

Inverness to Edinburgh is a great scenic journey through the highlands (and there are other great routes from Inverness too) so being able to enjoy the journey comfortably with good views would be a priority for me for example.

Personally I’d strongly suggest opting for a train on the route operated by an HST inter7city train.

These are old trains but totally renovated not so long ago and are more comfortable with smoother ride, large windows etc. quite a historic uk train design in fact and imho far better than other train types on the route.

Also is this the only uk rail trip you plan? Because you also have the option of a Brit Rail pass which is v good value. I think there is a Scotland only version of this pass that is cheaper than all uk. A Brit Rail pass is only available to people not resident in uk.

Sitting together (or across from each other) is a priority above everything else.
Good views are always welcome but sitting together is important for trip planning.
The departure time (10:50a) is important, could go one train later but 10:50a is best for us.
Food on board is not a necessity.
Price is not as important, but if we can save a pound and still sit together, that'd be great too.
Hope this clarifies

 

[hexagon789]

Sitting together (or across from each other) is a priority above everything else.
Good views are always welcome but sitting together is important for trip planning.
The departure time (10:50a) is important, could go one train later but 10:50a is best for us.
Food on board is not a necessity.
Price is not as important, but if we can save a pound and still sit together, that'd be great too.
Hope this clarifies

You might genuinely find it easier to get seats all together in Standard Class, particularly if using the 1050 departure.