CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[tfw756rider]

I probably won't know (unless anyone else knows) until I clean it at work in a few weeks time.

When the time comes, if you happen to get a spare few seconds to have a quick look for the bogie plaque year (for example) that would be appreciated very much

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 May 2025 ==

All those dates will most likely be date of manufacture of the relevant parts. So the complete unit will be built that year or later.

Obviously a unit might have a window saying 2025 but only because the original window was replaced. So the likes of 197032 might have been built earlier than 2025.

Then of course we know that a unit could be built out of a mixture of coaches not necessarily the ones one would expect. For example it is suspected that some 720s swapped coaches after delivery and on return to Derby.

All very good points! Eventually, I may make a Freedom of Information request, but for now, I don't mind just collecting the years of the parts

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Realtime Trains | 4G97 0626 Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 4G97 0626 departure from Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 6G97 0936 Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 6G97 0936 departure from Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

197032 tomorrow.

66534 + 197032 today.

 

[sd0733]

197029+197030 are planned to move from Holyhead to Shrewsbury today.
Believe they're then pencilled in for some testing Shrewsbury-Machynlleth-Welshpool-Machynlleth-Shrewsbury in the early hours.

Realtime Trains | 3C00 0953 Holyhead to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C00 0953 departure from Holyhead to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q90 2150 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Machynlleth | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q90 2150 departure from Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Machynlleth on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q91 2332 Machynlleth to Welshpool | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q91 2332 departure from Machynlleth to Welshpool on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q92 0028 Welshpool to Machynlleth | 16/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q92 0028 departure from Welshpool to Machynlleth on 16/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q93 0130 Machynlleth to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs | 16/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q93 0130 departure from Machynlleth to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs on 16/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[FrontSideBus]

Just seen a 197/0 in the middle of some hopper wagons being pulled by a 66 at Crewe.
I never caught the number as I had to jump the 11:10 67 service to Cardiff otherwise I would have went over to the other platform to get a better view.
Was clearly brand new and still has all the plastic seat covers on.

 

[WirralLine]

Just seen a 197/0 in the middle of some hopper wagons being pulled by a 66 at Crewe.
I never caught the number as I had to jump the 11:10 67 service to Cardiff otherwise I would have went over to the other platform to get a better view.
Was clearly brand new and still has all the plastic seat covers on.

Presumably this one -

66534 + 197032 today.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Just seen a 197/0 in the middle of some hopper wagons being pulled by a 66 at Crewe.
I never caught the number as I had to jump the 11:10 67 service to Cardiff otherwise I would have went over to the other platform to get a better view.
Was clearly brand new and still has all the plastic seat covers on.

66534 delivered 197032 today. It's going back to Basford Hall as 4G98

 

[Peter Sarf]

Re 4G97 Crewe Basford to Donnington and 6G97 Donnington to Crewe CS.

Realtime Trains | 4G97 0626 Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 4G97 0626 departure from Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 6G97 0936 Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 6G97 0936 departure from Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

197032 tomorrow.

Would make sense they (4G97 & 6G97) are NOT both 197032. Perhaps the loco is bringing a different 197 from Donnington to Crewe CS. Or its light loco (but trailing load ?).
Surely a visit to Donnington would be for longer than part of a day anyway ?.

66534 delivered 197032 today. It's going back to Basford Hall as 4G98

Realtime Trains | 4G98 1531 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Basford Hall Yard (Fl) | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 4G98 1531 departure from Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Basford Hall Yard (Fl) on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

4G98 Crewe Carriage Sidings to Basford Hall.
Also wonder if this really is the same unit as 6G97 as why would it pause a Crewe Carriage Sidings for part of a day ?.

 

[ls2270]

Re 4G97 Crewe Basford to Donnington and 6G97 Donnington to Crewe CS.

Would make sense they (4G97 & 6G97) are NOT both 197032. Perhaps the loco is bringing a different 197 from Donnington to Crewe CS. Or its light loco (but trailing load ?).
Surely a visit to Donnington would be for longer than part of a day anyway ?.

Realtime Trains | 4G98 1531 Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Basford Hall Yard (Fl) | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 4G98 1531 departure from Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) to Basford Hall Yard (Fl) on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

4G98 Crewe Carriage Sidings to Basford Hall.
Also wonder if this really is the same unit as 6G97 as why would it pause a Crewe Carriage Sidings for part of a day ?.

4G97 and 4G98 were 66534 hauling the barrier wagons.

6G97 was 66534, the barrier wagons and 197032.

 

[Bob Price]

Interesting to see the Chester Crewe 1K33 was two three car units today. Then headed out on 1D53. First time I have seen six coaches on that service. Seems a bit of overkill for a 15 minute run.

 

[MP393]

Interesting to see the Chester Crewe 1K33 was two three car units today. Then headed out on 1D53. First time I have seen six coaches on that service. Seems a bit of overkill for a 15 minute run.

It was a positioning move to get a unit over to Crewe to cover the Crewe - Shrewsbury shuttles as 150231 had failed, however as the Crewe - Shrewsburys have now been cancelled for the morning due to an axle counter failure, it wasn’t needed after all.

 

[Peter Sarf]

4G97 and 4G98 were 66534 hauling the barrier wagons.

6G97 was 66534, the barrier wagons and 197032.

Thanks LS for the information, all makes sense now.

 

[tfw756rider]

Does anyone in here know what it actually is on the 197s / "19x" units in general that makes that whining sound (or "lathe sound" as it has been called) that frequently comes on and off? Someone has asked me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone in here know what it actually is on the 197s / "19x" units in general that makes that whining sound (or "lathe sound" as it has been called) that frequently comes on and off? Someone has asked me.

The aircon if I recall.

 

[tfw756rider]

The aircon if I recall.

Thanks. It does seem oddly loud for that, considering it's quieter on older trains that have it (including 170s which also have an audible whine but constant and quieter).

 

[Jez]

Ive noticed the noise it makes as well at random intervals and also assumed it was the air con kicking in when it gets to a certain temperature maybe?

I was on a 197 on Friday very briefly and the air con on a hot day seemed fine. Although it was a very short journey so difficult to judge fully.

In the new timetable there still seems to be the same amount of diagrams but they seem to be covering them well at the moment with very few substitutions recently. 50 diagrams out of 60+ units should be okay even with a few out of use long term such as 197101.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Does anyone in here know what it actually is on the 197s / "19x" units in general that makes that whining sound (or "lathe sound" as it has been called) that frequently comes on and off? Someone has asked me.

I was wondering if that whine could be the compressor for the braking system etc ?.

I remember the old compressors on EPBs etc that were very different. I once had to persuade someone it was not the "engine" !.
Not sure what they sound like now.

 

[Richard Scott]

I was wondering if that whine could be the compressor for the braking system etc ?.

I remember the old compressors on EPBs etc that were very different. I once had to persuade someone it was not the "engine" !.
Not sure what they sound like now.

Likely compressors are engine driven rather than by an electric motor.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Likely compressors are engine driven rather than by an electric motor.

Would be a simple way of doing it except perhaps on the related 331s ?.

 

[vicbury]

Thanks. It does seem oddly loud for that, considering it's quieter on older trains that have it (including 170s which also have an audible whine but constant and quieter).

I'd be very surprised if it's the aircon as the sound comes from under the floor and does not seem to bear any relation to the temperature of the train e.g. the noise is still made in the winter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2025 ==

I was on a 197 on Friday very briefly and the air con on a hot day seemed fine. Although it was a very short journey so difficult to judge fully.

I've not encountered any issues on my weekly trips on 197s during the warm weather this year, although the air flow seems to vary a fair bit. GWR's turbos on the other hand..

 

[Jez]

I noticed today the 1454 Swansea-Manchester was 2 cars with the 3 cars added at Cardiff not Swansea. On RTT it still says coaches are meant to be added at Swansea. Hopefully this was just a one off today. 2 cars could lead to overcrowding between Swansea-Cardiff.

 

[sd0733]

I noticed today the 1454 Swansea-Manchester was 2 cars with the 3 cars added at Cardiff not Swansea. On RTT it still says coaches are meant to be added at Swansea. Hopefully this was just a one off today. 2 cars could lead to overcrowding between Swansea-Cardiff.

It's booked to attach at Swansea. Quite a lot of chopping and changing of diagrams throughout the day today.

 

[Jez]

It's booked to attach at Swansea. Quite a lot of chopping and changing of diagrams throughout the day today.

Thanks. Im using that particular service soon from Neath to Manchester. Travelling with my Mum and ideally she would need a seat.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I was wondering if that whine could be the compressor for the braking system etc ?.

I remember the old compressors on EPBs etc that were very different. I once had to persuade someone it was not the "engine" !.
Not sure what they sound like now.

Likely compressors are engine driven rather than by an electric motor.

They have an electric compressor.
1 on a 2 car and 2 on a 3 car.
The carriage with the large toilet doesn’t have a compressor. So if you can hear it in that carriage it’s unlikely to be that.

The saloon aircon unit is on the roof in the middle of each carriage.
The can aircon unit is above each cab.

I’m not sure what else would make the noise really.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197029+197030 are planned to move from Holyhead to Shrewsbury today.
Believe they're then pencilled in for some testing Shrewsbury-Machynlleth-Welshpool-Machynlleth-Shrewsbury in the early hours.

Realtime Trains | 3C00 0953 Holyhead to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C00 0953 departure from Holyhead to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q90 2150 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Machynlleth | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q90 2150 departure from Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Machynlleth on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q91 2332 Machynlleth to Welshpool | 15/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q91 2332 departure from Machynlleth to Welshpool on 15/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q92 0028 Welshpool to Machynlleth | 16/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q92 0028 departure from Welshpool to Machynlleth on 16/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q93 0130 Machynlleth to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs | 16/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q93 0130 departure from Machynlleth to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs on 16/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Here they are not my video.

A friend has asked me to share this video of the 197s.

 

[tfw756rider]

I've been made aware of 197 test run schedules for the Cambrian Main and Coast Lines' terminus stations!

Respectively, those are of course Aberystwyth (where the 197 is due to be in the early hours of the 3/6/25) and Pwllheli (where the 197 is due to be in the early hours of the 4/6/25):

Realtime Trains | 3C00 2230 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Aberystwyth | 02/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C00 2230 departure from Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Aberystwyth on 02/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3C01 0325 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 03/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C01 0325 departure from Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 03/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3C02 0050 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli | 04/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C02 0050 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli on 04/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3C03 0230 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 04/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C03 0230 departure from Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 04/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[158822]

Does this mean Cambrian drivers and guards will be starting training on the 197s?

 

[Cambrian359]

Does this mean Cambrian drivers and guards will be starting training on the 197s?

Given the Cambrian units are currently being used to prop up the rest of the network it’s hard to imagine them being able to make the switch anytime soon on the Cambrian line and therefore probably not worth the effort to start training just for it to lapse particularly as the 158s have been leased for another 2 years according to various topics and posts on here. I could be wrong though!

 

[Caaardiff]

Given the Cambrian units are currently being used to prop up the rest of the network it’s hard to imagine them being able to make the switch anytime soon on the Cambrian line and therefore probably not worth the effort to start training just for it to lapse particularly as the 158s have been leased for another 2 years according to various topics and posts on here. I could be wrong though!

There's only 2-3 being used in service to cover long term stopped non-etcs units. There's no extra numbers in service above what was already planned.

 

[Peter Sarf]

There's only 2-3 being used in service to cover long term stopped non-etcs units. There's no extra numbers in service above what was already planned.

I thought about this over the last few days and last night came to the conclusion why only 2-3 ERTMS 197/0s in use ?.
(I know they are reserved for the Cambrian Coast services)

I can see half a dozen or so have been used and last week your 2-3 was corroborated by me as 197024, 197029 & 197035 in use on Thursday, Friday & Saturday (22-24/05/2025). Considering how many 197s are covering for 231s that are still on the TAM lines the question is how many 197s are doing jobs not planned for them ?.

So that leaves how many non-ERTMS 197s are out of action ?.

Also how many ERTMS 197/0s are expected to stray in the future on a day to day basis onto non-Cambrian duties elsewhere in Wales ?.

(all motivated by - can us spotters not please see more ERTMS 197s in Cardiff please )

EDIT
Also where are the parked up locations of all these (18 odd) unused ERTMS 197s ?.
I know Holyhead seems to be one place (a long way from the centre of the universe in Cardiff, yeah I know Chester is their centro of orbit/depot !).
Do we have a list on here ?.

EDIT
Tweaked my confusing negative above from "not" to "please".

 

[Jez]

The 197s have 50 diagrams currently I think. So regardless of whether they are covering routes currently meant for 231s eventually they are still booked workings on these routes currently (included in the 50 diagrams).

I believe Maesteg to Ebbw.Vale.requires 4 diagrams plus Cardiff to Cheltenham 3 diagrams so 7 in total. Unsure if any of these are covered by Sprinters currently.as official booked workings or whether when a Sprinter turns up its simply cover for a 197.

I believe eventually this will lead to 3 or 4 extra 197s to cover long distance routes whilst the other 3 of the 7 will be included on the Cambrian Birmingham routes.