About Elizabeth line speeds on the GEML

[bluerun46]

The linespeed on most of the GEML slow lines is 70mph. Is there a reason why trains do not routinely hit 70 on the particularly longer stretches of track? I find trains run at around 50 instead, maybe 65 if the train is running late.

On another note, there currently appears to be a temporary speed restriction between Manor Park and Forest Gate. Anybody know why?

 

[800301]

The linespeed on most of the GEML slow lines is 70mph. Is there a reason why trains do not routinely hit 70 on the particularly longer stretches of track? I find trains run at around 50 instead, maybe 65 if the train is running late.

On another note, there currently appears to be a temporary speed restriction between Manor Park and Forest Gate. Anybody know why?

Because there is no real point to driving flat out, there is enough padding on the service

 

[RailExplorer]

The linespeed on most of the GEML slow lines is 70mph. Is there a reason why trains do not routinely hit 70 on the particularly longer stretches of track? I find trains run at around 50 instead, maybe 65 if the train is running late.

On another note, there currently appears to be a temporary speed restriction between Manor Park and Forest Gate. Anybody know why?

There aren't many sections we can hit 70...
But we can do so between Ilford and Seven Kings, Chadwell Heath and Romford, Harold Wood and Brentwood. All both directions. That's about it really. I would say I routinely hit 70 leaving Chadwell Heath and Harold Wood, and perhaps about 60 leaving Ilford as this section is shorter.

No idea why there is a 20 mph ESR over Forest Gate Junction, but what I can say is that it's highly annoying!

 

[iphone76]

There aren't many sections we can hit 70...
But we can do so between Ilford and Seven Kings, Chadwell Heath and Romford, Harold Wood and Brentwood. All both directions. That's about it really. I would say I routinely hit 70 leaving Chadwell Heath and Harold Wood, and perhaps about 60 leaving Ilford as this section is shorter.

No idea why there is a 20 mph ESR over Forest Gate Junction, but what I can say is that it's highly annoying!

Especially as it briefly went upto 50, before returning back to 20 which almost caught me out!

Reason given is track - rail defect.

 

[Harpo]

No idea why there is a 20 mph ESR over Forest Gate Junction, but what I can say is that it's highly annoying!

Reason given is track - rail defect.

Guesswork - Possibly a defective crossing which can be slow to obtain. I’d also guess that it’s complex to get access/possessions there as it presumably closes the route to/from the LTS so needs the T&H to be clear, and maybe needs the UM closed or fenced off too??

 

[Class 170101]

There aren't many sections we can hit 70...
But we can do so between Ilford and Seven Kings, Chadwell Heath and Romford, Harold Wood and Brentwood. All both directions. That's about it really. I would say I routinely hit 70 leaving Chadwell Heath and Harold Wood, and perhaps about 60 leaving Ilford as this section is shorter.

Good luck hitting 70 between Ilford and Seven Kings start to stop I would say.

No idea why there is a 20 mph ESR over Forest Gate Junction, but what I can say is that it's highly annoying!

Guesswork - Possibly a defective crossing which can be slow to obtain. I’d also guess that it’s complex to get access/possessions there as it presumably closes the route to/from the LTS so needs the T&H to be clear, and maybe needs the UM closed or fenced off too??

Some weeks of all line closures between London and Shenfield coming up in February.

 

[RailExplorer]

Good luck hitting 70 between Ilford and Seven Kings start to stop I would say.

I hit 70 pretty frequently in both directions (about 30% of my trips) on that stretch with a good enough coasting session in-between the acceleration and braking. But I am still more likely to do about 60 as there isn't really any need to do 70. But 70 is the line speed so nothing wrong with taking it to 70.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2025 ==

Especially as it briefly went upto 50, before returning back to 20 which almost caught me out!

Reason given is track - rail defect.

The ESR warnings are set up very badly too, and the reminder board at Manor Park is equally as badly placed. I wish when they change the speed of the ESR, they would also move the ESRs warnings slightly (it supposed to be service braking distance after all and that is clearly different for a 20 and a 50).

 

[Horizon22]

The main issue is the amount of stops and nothing runs semi-fast (outside of disruption) on the GEML. Obviously accelerating and decelerating every 3-4 minutes means you won’t hit the top speed often.

I’d say the best chance is between Chadwell Heath and Romford and Brentwood to Harold Wood as some of the longest stretches.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2025 ==

Good luck hitting 70 between Ilford and Seven Kings start to stop I would say.



Some weeks of all line closures between London and Shenfield coming up in February.

First weekend is the last one of January and then rinse and repeat for 4 weekends.

 

[Harpo]

Some weeks of all line closures between London and Shenfield coming up in February.

Still not a guarantee of access if the repair at Forest Gate conflicts with other jobs, stops the movements to/from site needed by others, or……

And if access is possible, all replacement components need to be on hand.

It’s never straightforward!

 

[Class 170101]

Still not a guarantee of access if the repair at Forest Gate conflicts with other jobs, stops the movements to/from site needed by others, or……

And if access is possible, all replacement components need to be on hand.

It’s never straightforward!

No it never is unfortunately.

 

[side effect]

I remember sitting at Gidea Park in the mid eighties and it seemed the trains used to come through a lost faster. Have they drastically lowered the speed or did they just seem a lot faster back then. I'm talking about the 321s and the big iron to Norwich.

 

[Horizon22]

I remember sitting at Gidea Park in the mid eighties and it seemed the trains used to come through a lost faster. Have they drastically lowered the speed or did they just seem a lot faster back then. I'm talking about the 321s and the big iron to Norwich.

Well the mainlines are 90mph. Only the electric lines are 70mph.

 

[RailExplorer]

Well the mainlines are 90mph. Only the electric lines are 70mph.

At Gidea Park station, the Electric Line is 40mph towards Shenfield, and 50mph towards London.

 

[Alfie1014]

Well the mainlines are 90mph. Only the electric lines are 70mph.

I think the ruling speed of 70 mph on the electrics dates back to the class 306s which was their top speed ( even though wikipedia shows 75).

 

[iphone76]

I think the ruling speed of 70 mph on the electrics dates back to the class 306s which was their top speed ( even though wikipedia shows 75).

We were also told it is due to the signal spacing being a lot closer on the electric lines between Bow Junction and Harold Wood. eg. between Seven Kings and Chadwell Heath there are 9 signals on the electric lines (including platform starting signals). On the mains, there are 3.

 

[iphone76]

Quick update on the 20mph Emergency Speed Restriction in the Forest Gate area. It has been extended now from Forest Gate Junction (5 miles 68 chains from Liverpool Street) to Maryland (4 miles 31 chains). Hence a few delays on the Up Electric line this morning as was previously just 8 chains in length.

Hopefully removed / reduced back soon.

 

[sjm77]

big iron to Norwich

I have to ask about this?

 

[side effect]

I have to ask about this?

I worked on the railway back in the 80s and they would call the blue locos big irons.

 

[bluerun46]

The ESR is still in place between Manor Park and Forest Gate after a few months. Any update?

 

[Horizon22]

The ESR is still in place between Manor Park and Forest Gate after a few months. Any update?

Planned rectification should be late May or early June.

 

[dk1]

Planned rectification should be late May or early June.

Cheers. I was only wondering that on Friday as I drove past on the UM.

 

[eastlondonboy4]

Seems liks there's a 20mph restriction between Forest Gate and Stratford now as well, at least on the westbound slow line

 

[Horizon22]

Seems liks there's a 20mph restriction between Forest Gate and Stratford now as well, at least on the westbound slow line

It’s an extension of the previous one. Hopefully removed or speed upped in coming days/week

 

[Sunny2222]

Why can't TFL sort this speed restriction quickly it's madness that it's been going on for nearly over 3 months. Sort it out urgently please TFL and Rail Network. Worst then even 3 world where things happen quicker. Whats the reason unnessary speed restriction passengers are not even being told what the reasons are crazy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2025 ==

Crazy it's taking so long to sort this out. This country is worst than a 3rd world country nothing happens at a pace and no one is bothered. Rediculious!

 

[The exile]

Why can't TFL sort this speed restriction quickly it's madness that it's been going on for nearly over 3 months. Sort it out urgently please TFL and Rail Network. Worst then even 3 world where things happen quicker. Whats the reason unnessary speed restriction passengers are not even being told what the reasons are crazy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2025 ==

Crazy it's taking so long to sort this out. This country is worst than a 3rd world country nothing happens at a pace and no one is bothered. Rediculious!

You can’t just pop down to Wickes /Homebase or wherever and pop a set of points in your trolley….

 

[800301]

Why can't TFL sort this speed restriction quickly it's madness that it's been going on for nearly over 3 months. Sort it out urgently please TFL and Rail Network. Worst then even 3 world where things happen quicker. Whats the reason unnessary speed restriction passengers are not even being told what the reasons are crazy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2025 ==

Crazy it's taking so long to sort this out. This country is worst than a 3rd world country nothing happens at a pace and no one is bothered. Rediculious!

Because TfL don’t run the railway maybe, you think 3 months is bad, there has a been a TSR just outside of Reading for over a year despite them replacing the track and bed a few weeks ago for the second time

 

[Horizon22]

Why can't TFL sort this speed restriction quickly it's madness that it's been going on for nearly over 3 months. Sort it out urgently please TFL and Rail Network. Worst then even 3 world where things happen quicker. Whats the reason unnessary speed restriction passengers are not even being told what the reasons are crazy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2025 ==

Crazy it's taking so long to sort this out. This country is worst than a 3rd world country nothing happens at a pace and no one is bothered. Rediculious!

1. TfL don't run the line, Network Rail do.
2. Most people don't really want to be told all the technical details of why there is a speed restriction. It is not "unecessary" or it wouldn't be there.
3. A bespoke part was needed which takes time to manufacture and deliver and plan it. People are "bothered" but it is planned in.
4. Trains are only losing 1-2 minutes, almost always recovered by Paddington.

 

[43066]

1. TfL don't run the line, Network Rail do.
2. Most people don't really want to be told all the technical details of why there is a speed restriction. It is not "unecessary" or it wouldn't be there.
3. A bespoke part was needed which takes time to manufacture and deliver and plan it. People are "bothered" but it is planned in.
4. Trains are only losing 1-2 minutes, almost always recovered by Paddington.

Fully agreed. I use this section of the route a fair bit and it’s barely perceptible to be honest.

 

[notadriver]

20 mph temporary /emergency speed limits seem to take forever to remove on suburban lines.
But on intercity routes such as the ECML they don’t stay for long !

 

[Horizon22]

20 mph temporary /emergency speed limits seem to take forever to remove on suburban lines.
But on intercity routes such as the ECML they don’t stay for long !

Well the impact is much more noticable on intercity routes as the linespeed is normally higher and access may be easier.