Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Forgive me if there is already a post regarding this.
Just seen a tweet below from Richard Clinnick (Modern Railways magazine), saying Transport minister has signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Swiss Federal councillor to progress a new direct rail link between London and Switzerland.
Link to tweet below:-
An MoU has been signed today between @Heidi_Labour and Federal Councillor, Albert Rösti, to progress a new direct rail link to Switzerland. No dates mentioned. @transportgovuk quotes @Eurostar in its press release.
Yeah, according to Jon Worth it'd be single-deck trains, mandatory reservation, and either non-stop or just Lille in France. With or without SNCF. I bet on without, SNCF is basically treating every cooperation awfully except DB.
I would love to see this service, but I am afraid it will remain a politicians' aspiration - unless they throw money at an operator to run it, and even then it might not happen. I remember the expenditure on the sleeper rolling stock built for the Channel Tunnel...
They could decide to open up a UK border control office at the Swiss stations. They did that at Amsterdam and Rotterdam when Eurostar started serving them. It would add more cost so who knows if they would.
They could decide to open up a UK border control office at the Swiss stations. They did that at Amsterdam and Rotterdam when Eurostar started serving them. It would add more cost so who knows if they would.
If it’s Basel, that has border control on the French platforms doesn’t it?
Although I’ve never seen it used, just police on the French platform when I arrived in a train from Strasbourg
They could decide to open up a UK border control office at the Swiss stations. They did that at Amsterdam and Rotterdam when Eurostar started serving them. It would add more cost so who knows if they would.
That would make the whole train a 'sterile' train from Switzerland. Is there a single Swiss station that would fill even half of a 400m train to London? From Basel it's a 4-hour run to Lille - that's an awful long way to rely on point-to-point passengers.
Is there space for security and immigration facilities at any Swiss station? Train platforming is all optimised for takt, and Swiss stations are designed to an ethos of being open community spaces.
Yeah, according to Jon Worth it'd be single-deck trains, mandatory reservation, and either non-stop or just Lille in France. With or without SNCF. I bet on without, SNCF is basically treating every cooperation awfully except DB.
The fact that the government press release quotes Eurostar does suggest that they will be involved. It would be odd for both Eurostar and SNCF to be involved directly, but you can hardly call an operation including Eurostar "without SNCF" either.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
That would make the whole train a 'sterile' train from Switzerland. Is there a single Swiss station that would fill even half of a 400m train to London? From Basel it's a 4-hour run to Lille - that's an awful long way to rely on point-to-point passengers.
Is there space for security and immigration facilities at any Swiss station? Train platforming is all optimised for takt, and Swiss stations are designed to an ethos of being open community spaces.
Both Geneva and Basel have the option of closing off the France-bound platforms relatively easily.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
There was a lot of speculation about Switzerland-London services in this thread, where Switzerland was identified as the most likely new* cross-channel destination, due to there being both a relatively sizeable travel market to/from the UK, that is dominated by travellers willing to pay relatively high prices.
*So not including anything that used to be served by eurostar.
What rolling stock do we think might we see on a potential London-Switzerland route? I have no doubt SBB will be wanting to run their own services and support Swiss industry, but Stadler currently doesn't offer a 300km/h platform as far as I know. At best the SMILE/Giruno can be built with 250km/h capabilities, but I'm not sure that could be viable over such a long distance.
What rolling stock do we think might we see on a potential London-Switzerland route? I have no doubt SBB will be wanting to run their own services and support Swiss industry, but Stadler currently doesn't offer a 300km/h platform as far as I know. At best the SMILE/Giruno can be built with 250km/h capabilities, but I'm not sure that could be viable over such a long distance.
are all current E*s full employed? and could they be fitted with whatever extra signalling stuff would be needed?
I can't imagine anybody making a business case for new stock and training enough crews for a once- or twice-a-day bespoke service like this.
Maybe the economics could be improved by making them part of the normal timetable south of Lille and just putting up with the inconvenience of the Lille Shuffle northbound - which might only affect a small proportion of the passengers anyway!
If current TGV Lyria trains can run along the Paris-Switzerland routes without extra signalling beyond TVM430 (and I don't know if they do have more than that) then I think most Eurostar trains could easily cover that journey. It would mostly be staffing and economic factors that determine it's viability. All things considered though I don't expect Eurostar to be the ones to operate the service, especially when we're trying to encourage competition through the Channel Tunnel.
If current TGV Lyria trains can run along the Paris-Switzerland routes without extra signalling beyond TVM430 (and I don't know if they do have more than that) then I think most Eurostar trains could easily cover that journey. It would mostly be staffing and economic factors that determine it's viability. All things considered though I don't expect Eurostar to be the ones to operate the service, especially when we're trying to encourage competition through the Channel Tunnel.
... so, if E* trains aren't likely to be available (if they don't get the option to run) then how difficult would it be to get Lyria trains approved or adapted for running to St Pancras?
... so, if E* trains aren't likely to be available (if they don't get the option to run) then how difficult would it be to get Lyria trains approved or adapted for running to St Pancras?
Truthfully I don't know, and to be honest I don't expect any TGV trains to be used for London-Switzerland services if it is run by SBB. They have already expressed interest in doing so, and I think it would be interesting to think about whether they will have to opt for foreign stock or if Stadler could deliver a 300km/h capable unit. Maybe if TGV Lyria somehow expands to London we'll see it, but otherwise I can't see it being the case.
SBB is a state-owned company and must therefore tender according to the applicable international rules and is therefore not free to choose the manufacturer of the rolling stock.
Basel will lose the 25kV part and switch completely to 15kV. ETCS Baseline 3 is required for authorisation on the Swiss network.
The fact Eurostar is commenting on this in DfT's press release to me says they're involved.
Eurostar want a new fleet, and have plans to expand. SNCF and SBB already have a relationship. And I'm sure I read somewhere SNCF did consider Lyria being part of the Eurostar merger.
I'd be surprised if this didn't end up being a Eurostar operation.
The fact Eurostar is commenting on this in DfT's press release to me says they're involved.
Eurostar want a new fleet, and have plans to expand. SNCF and SBB already have a relationship. And I'm sure I read somewhere SNCF did consider Lyria being part of the Eurostar merger.
I'd be surprised if this didn't end up being a Eurostar operation.
Given the inevitable investment that this will require, presumably the government will opt for Eurostar to drive down the investment costs via their incumbent’s advantage. Any other operator would need a much bigger investment to get going to/from London, except maybe Lyria who would be best placed to fulfil the requirements the fastest of any current or potential High Speed operator other than Eurostar
SNCF is currenly nuclear to their partners and I don't think SBB really wants anything to do with it before it, and likely just want to GTFO before it just erupts as it did in Italy in 2012 and in Spain in 2022 (Trenitalia took 9 years before restoring a day service, Renfe is doing Renfe and we don't know how long it will take). And the announcement of their own service is the prime example.
Count any new international Swiss service without SNCF.
SNCF is currenly nuclear to their partners and I don't think SBB really wants anything to do with it before it, and likely just want to GTFO before it just erupts as it did in Italy in 2012 and in Spain in 2022 (Trenitalia took 9 years before restoring a day service, Renfe is doing Renfe and we don't know how long it will take). And the announcement of their own service is the prime example.
Count any new international Swiss service without SNCF.
The Swiss are serious about #CrossChannelRail services to London. Many hurdles ahead, but by the end of the decade it could work. Really. https://mstdn.social/@watson_news/114476818767529662
gruene.social
- new trains to be ordered next year, 300km/h, 17t axle load, likely single deck (so Hitachi or Siemens probably)
- likely mandatory reservation outside Switzerland
- how it works with SNCF is not clear, but not stopping in France is being considered, as are models cooperating with SNCF and/or Eurostar
That would make the whole train a 'sterile' train from Switzerland. Is there a single Swiss station that would fill even half of a 400m train to London? From Basel it's a 4-hour run to Lille - that's an awful long way to rely on point-to-point passengers.
Or Strasbourg, which might have some mileage traffic-wise. It should be possible to do Basel-London with stops at Strasbourg and Lille in 5h which would be slightly faster than via Dijon.
An interesting thought: if services are operated from the "country" end rather than London, the following service pattern is possible with a 5hr journey:
A 0600 - STP 1000/1200 - A 1800 - Z
Z - A 1100 - STP 1500/1700 - A 2300
This gives A an out-and-back business service and A and Z a leisure timing, ideal for those who live outside Zone 1
If A is Frankfurt, Z can be Munich (or even Berlin). Basel and Milan, Lyon and Nice...
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
