Interviewed under caution with expired railcard from last October.

[ik2200]

Hi all,
I was stopped at Birmingham New Street on my way from Plymouth to Leicester. I was asked to present my railcard and I did not realise it had not automatically renewed and it had in fact expired in October 2024. The man who stopped me told me there would be a penalty fee of £180 to which I agreed. As he took my details down, I renewed my railcard immediately and once he was done he called another inspector. He asked me the same questions and asked me to show my expired railcard. When I told him I'd just renewed it, he looked miffed and then proceeded to interview me under caution and told me that my details had been sent off and to expect a letter within 6 weeks.
There was a guy next to me who also got stopped for an expired railcard, but the lady he spoke to printed something out and let him on his way. Why was I not given the opportunity to pay the fee then and there? I've heard that now I must wait for the letter and expect a settlement cost totalling the cost of all tickets I've bought since the railcard expired which in my case is around £3,000. Is this really true? I'm a university student and made a genuine mistake not realising my railcard didn't renew, I can't afford to pay a 3 grand fine. Any help or advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[AlterEgo]

Where exactly on the station were you stopped? Were you given any paperwork? If so, please post it here with your details removed.

We weren’t there, so we aren’t privy to what happened, but if you try to just renew the railcard there and then - and it’s a long way expired - the company will want to take your details by way of a report for prosecution as this gives them the opportunity to examine all your ticket purchases. As you’ve found, that is a lot of fares which have gone unpaid or underpaid, so you can understand why they take this action. If the railcard is expired by just a few days, a penalty fare might be more appropriate.

Did you answer any questions under caution? If so, do you remember what they were and what you said in response?

 

[RPI]

Hi all,
I was stopped at Birmingham New Street on my way from Plymouth to Leicester. I was asked to present my railcard and I did not realise it had not automatically renewed and it had in fact expired in October 2024. The man who stopped me told me there would be a penalty fee of £180 to which I agreed. As he took my details down, I renewed my railcard immediately and once he was done he called another inspector. He asked me the same questions and asked me to show my expired railcard. When I told him I'd just renewed it, he looked miffed and then proceeded to interview me under caution and told me that my details had been sent off and to expect a letter within 6 weeks.
There was a guy next to me who also got stopped for an expired railcard, but the lady he spoke to printed something out and let him on his way. Why was I not given the opportunity to pay the fee then and there? I've heard that now I must wait for the letter and expect a settlement cost totalling the cost of all tickets I've bought since the railcard expired which in my case is around £3,000. Is this really true? I'm a university student and made a genuine mistake not realising my railcard didn't renew, I can't afford to pay a 3 grand fine. Any help or advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

Its not a fine, it's simply repayment of the discounts that you've obtained that you weren't entitled to.

 

[WesternLancer]

We need more info to give good help on this. If this is west mids trains involved I think there may be scope for a payment plan. The op should certainly be asking for a breakdown if sums like 3k get mentioned.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I've heard that now I must wait for the letter and expect a settlement cost totalling the cost of all tickets I've bought since the railcard expired which in my case is around £3,000. Is this really true?

@ik2200. Welcome to the forum. How many inappropriately discounted tickets do you reckon that you've likely bought (and then used) since the old railcard expired late last year? Were these also typically long distance journeys between Plymouth and Leicester? That's potentially going to be quite expensive but you'll have had to have made multiple journeys for the total to get up to anywhere near three grand. Best of luck in sorting this all out.

 

[Titfield]

Please upload the letter when you receive it redacting (obscuring) all personal details and reference numbers.

The train operating company will check your bookings to ascertain the number of journeys booked without a valid railcard. They will be seeking the full one way fare for each journey taken with no allowance for cheaper fares or the fare paid already.

It may be helpful for you to go through your booking account and create a spreadsheet of all your journeys so you can match it to the spreadsheet the TOC will send you.

The sum requested is not a fine but the sum of all the full fares you have taken without a valid railcard plus an admin fee.

Now comes the tricky part. The TOC can not prove you took the journeys booked other than the one on which you were stopped. You could decide not to pay the settlement offered in which case they would take you to court for the one occasion you were caught. You would be found guilty, fined and receive a criminal conviction but the court fines officer would if asked offer you an out payment plan based on your income and outgoings. The court may and I stress may decide that the compensation sought by the TOC (the full fares) was not reasonable given (a) there are cheaper fares (b) the actual loss to the TOC was the cost of the railcard you had not bought.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 May 2025 ==

Of course if the incorrect tickets were scanned then it would prove they were used.

Having a criminal conviction has consequences and should be avoided if possible but it is not the end of the world. If you are seeking a career in a regulated industry eg law medicine teaching it would have more severe consequences.

 

[ik2200]

Where exactly on the station were you stopped? Were you given any paperwork? If so, please post it here with your details removed.

We weren’t there, so we aren’t privy to what happened, but if you try to just renew the railcard there and then - and it’s a long way expired - the company will want to take your details by way of a report for prosecution as this gives them the opportunity to examine all your ticket purchases. As you’ve found, that is a lot of fares which have gone unpaid or underpaid, so you can understand why they take this action. If the railcard is expired by just a few days, a penalty fare might be more appropriate.

Did you answer any questions under caution? If so, do you remember what they were and what you said in response?

At the barriers as I got off the stop for my changeover. I have no paperwork as of yet. I did answer questions, my details, why I did not have a valid ticket to which I responded I forgot to renew my railcard. They asked if I knowingly travelled with an ticket I am not entitled to and I said "no, obviously" or something along those lines.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 May 2025 ==

@ik2200. Welcome to the forum. How many inappropriately discounted tickets do you reckon that you've likely bought (and then used) since the old railcard expired late last year? Were these also typically long distance journeys between Plymouth and Leicester? That's potentially going to be quite expensive but you'll have had to have made multiple journeys for the total to get up to anywhere near three grand. Best of luck in sorting this all out.

I double checked and it may not be as hefty a fine as I initially thought. I was told by the man at the barrier that the standard fine is 10x the price of the full ticket for each journey.
SInce it expired, I've made one trip from Plymouth to Swansea (£25.30), a return trip from Swansea to Oxford (£56.30), a return trip from Swansea to Plymouth (£65.30) and finally this return trip from Plymouth to Leicester (£135.35). I will note that the return portion of the Swansea to Plymouth ticket has not been travelled yet as I'm due to take that train tomorrow, will that ticket be included as part of the fee?
Thanks in advance.

 

[AlterEgo]

I double checked and it may not be as hefty a fine as I initially thought. I was told by the man at the barrier that the standard fine is 10x the price of the full ticket for each journey.

Nonsense. They will ask for Anytime fares but it’s not “ten times the fare”. He’s made that up.

SInce it expired, I've made one trip from Plymouth to Swansea (£25.30)

Anytime Day Single £111.30

, a return trip from Swansea to Oxford (£56.30)

Anytime Return £299.00 (ouch)

, a return trip from Swansea to Plymouth (£65.30)

Likely two lots of £111.30 Anytime Day Singles

and finally this return trip from Plymouth to Leicester (£135.35).

As you travelled one way, £191.70 Anytime Single.

I will note that the return portion of the Swansea to Plymouth ticket has not been travelled yet as I'm due to take that train tomorrow, will that ticket be included as part of the fee?

It shouldn’t, but if it is, you can ask for it to be removed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@ik2200. Just to check, were any of these journeys made using railcard discounted first class advance tickets, by any chance?

 

[ik2200]

@ik2200. Just to check, were any of these journeys made using railcard discounted first class advance tickets, by any chance?

Hi, actually in fact yes. My return journey from Swansea to Plymouth (the return part of which is tomorrow) was first class as it was cheaper than the standard for some reason. Swansea to port talbot parkway was an anytime day single and port talbot to plymouth was an advance single.