TPE Liverpool-Newcastle skipping ECML stops?

[D1537]

Looking at this, 9E18 tonight appears to have skipped Darlington, Durham and Chester-le-Street.

Whilst that is excellent for TPE in terms of delay-repay for passengers already on the train and going to Newcastle (was 40 late, arrived 28 late), what is going on there?

9E18 RTT

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Looking at this, 9E18 tonight appears to have skipped Darlington, Durham and Chester-le-Street.

Whilst that is excellent for TPE in terms of delay-repay (was 40 late, arrived 28 late), what is going on there?

9E18 RTT

TPE journeycheck says (for that train in particular):

This train has been delayed by a passenger being taken ill on a train

Delays to services at Dewsbury
Following the emergency services dealing with an incident at Dewsbury all lines have now reopened.
Impact
Train services running through this station may be delayed. Disruption is expected until 22:15 07/05.
Customer Advice
What's happened?
Due to the emergency services dealing with an incident earlier today, although trains are now able to run from Leeds towards Dewsbury, delays may continue for a short time.

How does this affect my journey?
Trains between Leeds and Dewsbury may be delayed, revised, or cancelled at short notice.

What should I do?
You should continue to travel as planned, however, your journey may be delayed. We are sorry for the delay to your journey today.
Further Information
We are sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused to your journey today.
If your journey has been delayed, you may be entitled to some compensation.
Please check www.tpexpress.co.uk/help/delay-repay-compensation for further information.
For assistance with your journey, you can also follow us on X @TPEassist or you can message us on WhatsApp at 07812 223 336 .
Last Updated: 07/05/2025 21:37

18:24	Liverpool Lime Street	18:35
18:41	Newton-le-Willows	18:56
19:00	Manchester Victoria	19:19
19:30	Huddersfield	19:54
19:51	Leeds	20:22
20:17	York	20:57
20:45	Darlington	Not Stopping
21:01	Durham	Not Stopping
21:08	Chester-le-Street	Not Stopping
21:18	Newcastle	21:46

 

[D1537]

Still very odd, though. I realise that 9E18 forms a service back to York from Newcastle, but that wouldn't have been much delayed (if at all) if it had kept its stops. Meanwhile anyone on 9E18 (or at York) heading for DAR/DHM/CLS is delayed even further by having to get off at York and wait for 9E19 (which also stops at Northallerton, pushing the delay for them over an hour).

 

[ainsworth74]

This seems to be something that's increasingly common for TPE. I've been affected by this myself when two TPEs in a row were ran fast from York to Newcastle due to disruption. One happened so late that the train had actually boarded at York causing the conductor to have to tell all passengers other than those for Newcastle to get off. So I suspect that this is now a default service recovery move when a train reaches a certain delay threshold.

 

[Peter A]

This is something I've noticed a few times now with the Liverpool to Newcastle service during particularly heavy disruption, with the odd service being terminated at York too. From what I've seen it tends to occur when a service is so delayed that the one an hour behind has almost caught up - presumably passengers are directed to this. Equally, I believe that there is an arrangement in place where you can travel on one of the other DfT owned operators at no extra expense during disruption so passengers could also use an LNER service for Darlington and Durham - though I'm not sure how well publicised that is!

 

[TUC]

I was caught up in earlier delays from this incident. According to the on-train announcements, trains had had to divert due to an ambulance treating an ill passenger from the trackside on a train which had stopped mid-route. This seemed odd as I would have thought that in almost all circumstances trains would mert an ambulance at the next station?

 

[transportphoto]

Equally, I believe that there is an arrangement in place where you can travel on one of the other DfT owned operators at no extra expense during disruption so passengers could also use an LNER service for Darlington and Durham - though I'm not sure how well publicised that is!

Absolutely - strange how you should mention this as it’s also popped up in Disputes and Prosecutions this evening. (Link to thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-new-ticket-some-reassurance-required.285916/)

 

[RUK]

Equally, I believe that there is an arrangement in place where you can travel on one of the other DfT owned operators at no extra expense during disruption so passengers could also use an LNER service for Darlington and Durham - though I'm not sure how well publicised that is!

Will this become universal, and publicised, when Great British Railways comes in?

 

[swt_passenger]

Equally, I believe that there is an arrangement in place where you can travel on one of the other DfT owned operators at no extra expense during disruption so passengers could also use an LNER service for Darlington and Durham - though I'm not sure how well publicised that is!

Well they don’t seem to publicise it to their own staff, going by last night‘s thread in disputes.

 

[Narrowgauge725]

Already book marked the page on LNER’s site ready for the stand off

 

[800001]

Y

I was caught up in earlier delays from this incident. According to the on-train announcements, trains had had to divert due to an ambulance treating an ill passenger from the trackside on a train which had stopped mid-route. This seemed odd as I would have thought that in almost all circumstances trains would mert an ambulance at the next station?

That does seem a very odd announcement, and not a situation I have ever heard of for a customer requiring medical attention.

I think it is mostly a case of the announcer getting slightly muddled up with what is actually happening (unless someone can confirm the ambulance service treat the person from trackside).

They 99.9% of the time will meet at a station most suitable for the ambulance service, and agreed with via the control team who will be liasing with the ambulance service.
If it was ‘the next station’ the ambulance could travel some time to get there, so at times the train could travel a good 15-20 minutes or some times longer to a suitable station.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Y


That does seem a very odd announcement, and not a situation I have ever heard of for a customer requiring medical attention.

I don’t know anything about this particular situation but it does occasionally happen

 

[Horizon22]

I don’t know anything about this particular situation but it does occasionally happen

Normally at a station though, which is much easier for emergency services access.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Normally at a station though, which is much easier for emergency services access.

Indeed. Usually it happens because the train can’t access a platform for one reason or another

 

[Tetchytyke]

This seems to be something that's increasingly common for TPE.

The section of the ECML between York and Newcastle is now so busy that it ends up being the best outcome overall. It doesn’t make it any less frustrating, but you can see why they need to avoid the stops, especially at Northallerton, Chester le Street, and at Durham in the up direction, otherwise everything just stacks up behind it.

 

[ainsworth74]

The section of the ECML between York and Newcastle is now so busy that it ends up being the best outcome overall. It doesn’t make it any less frustrating, but you can see why they need to avoid the stops, especially at Northallerton, Chester le Street, and at Durham in the up direction, otherwise everything just stacks up behind it.

Oh yes I certainly get it but it's a bit frustrating when its two on the trot and the second is announced as already displaced passengers are taking their seats on the second in a row to run fast!

 

[Kite159]

The section of the ECML between York and Newcastle is now so busy that it ends up being the best outcome overall. It doesn’t make it any less frustrating, but you can see why they need to avoid the stops, especially at Northallerton, Chester le Street, and at Durham in the up direction, otherwise everything just stacks up behind it.

So 5tph counts as being very busy?

Although you could remove one of those trains if TPE went back to calling at Northallerton with the Newcastle train.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So 5tph counts as being very busy?

Yes, especially with the way everything is timetabled in a flight. It’s also usually more than 5tph.

The real pinch point is Northallerton.

 

[Earle Grey]

Still very odd, though. I realise that 9E18 forms a service back to York from Newcastle, but that wouldn't have been much delayed (if at all) if it had kept its stops. Meanwhile anyone on 9E18 (or at York) heading for DAR/DHM/CLS is delayed even further by having to get off at York and wait for 9E19 (which also stops at Northallerton, pushing the delay for them over an hour).

The agreed service recovery plan between TPE and NR is trains between 31 and 45 minutes late to run non stop YRK NCL and over 45 to terminate at YRK to form next workings. It was on the bubble approaching York...

9M22, 9E18s' next working was right time departure from NCL, so the mitigation worked; regardless of the destination. Of course a discussion may, and often does happen, between TOC and NR Control as to other options dependant on time of day/other events, but this is the overlying principle to ensure delays are nipped in the bud as soon as possible.

Yes, especially with the way everything is timetabled in a flight. It’s also usually more than 5tph.

The real pinch point is Northallerton.

It is not so much the paths per hour, but as you said the way in which they are flighted, 4 of them in the 20min spell of each hour between York and Newcastle.

 

[H F Stephens]

It is not so much the paths per hour, but as you said the way in which they are flighted, 4 of them in the 20min spell of each hour between York and Newcastle.

In itself a function of the railway serving ‘the railway’, rather than customer demand and taxpayer subsidy effectiveness.

qv Tim Shoveller’s recent thoughts on network utilisation.

 

[Class 170101]

It is not so much the paths per hour, but as you said the way in which they are flighted, 4 of them in the 20min spell of each hour between York and Newcastle.

In itself a function of the railway serving ‘the railway’, rather than customer demand and taxpayer subsidy effectiveness.

qv Tim Shoveller’s recent thoughts on network utilisation.

But is that so Tim Shoveller can run his Freight trains at speeds of 75mph or less in the remainder of the hour? Its similar on the WCML north of Preston I believe.

 

[TUC]

In itself a function of the railway serving ‘the railway’, rather than customer demand and taxpayer subsidy effectiveness.

Well said. This is true for so many issues.

 

[43066]

In itself a function of the railway serving ‘the railway’, rather than customer demand and taxpayer subsidy effectiveness.

qv Tim Shoveller’s recent thoughts on network utilisation.

Well said. This is true for so many issues.

This is a meaningless statement, though. It’s nothing to do with “the railway serving the railway” (what does that actually mean anyway?) it’s an attempt to recover service in a way that best benefits the majority, given the resources available.

It isn’t necessarily perfect, but it will have been a conscious decision taken by those with the relevant expertise.

 

[Uncle Buck]

The section of the ECML between York and Newcastle is now so busy that it ends up being the best outcome overall. It doesn’t make it any less frustrating, but you can see why they need to avoid the stops, especially at Northallerton, Chester le Street, and at Durham in the up direction, otherwise everything just stacks up behind it.

Without wanting to go off at too much of a tangent, if NPR/HS3 or whatever is ever built, it should run to at least Northallerton- goodness knows how that would affect York though!

 

[SteveP29]

Looking at this, 9E18 tonight appears to have skipped Darlington, Durham and Chester-le-Street.

Whilst that is excellent for TPE in terms of delay-repay for passengers already on the train and going to Newcastle (was 40 late, arrived 28 late), what is going on there?

9E18 RTT

This happened to me about 5 years ago.
Was getting the train down to Chester le Street from Edinburgh.

Had to change at Newcastle.
I had my headphones in and wasn't listening to the announcements on platform (the platform monitors for platforms 9, 10, 11 & 12 are at the buffer end of the platform)

The train I was catching was late getting into Newcastle, it arrived, the passengers got off, we all got on, the train set off, at South Pelaw it didn't start to slow down and I thought 'wow this driver's going to screech it to a halt here'
We flew through CLS, my Mother was meeting me at CLS, had to call her to divert and go to Durham.
The women sat next to me heard my phonecall, one of them said 'you know this is going to York non stop?'
I said I hadn't heard because of the headphones. I had to call her back and tell her not to bother at all and I'd keep her updated.
We flew through Durham, Darlington and Northallerton and into York.
They'd missed the stops to get back onto the timetable.
Thankfully the conductor had let the fare go because I hadn't heard the announcement, but I did have to buy a ticket back to Chester le Street (Which I successfully got back as a delay repay)

So I missed meeting my mates at my local in CLS for the minibus into Newcastle for the match, getting off the train at CLS was a massive trial as the train was rammed and more were trying to get on, with only me and about 3 others trying to get off.

I only just made kick off for the match

 

[H F Stephens]

But is that so Tim Shoveller can run his Freight trains at speeds of 75mph or less in the remainder of the hour? It’s similar on the WCML north of Preston I believe.

All network operations have to cope with balancing, reconciling and resolving multiple interactions.

Irrespective of his current position, I’d posit that Tim Shoveller has a better understanding of the various competing players than most.

And, to take the example of the East Cast Mainline between York and Berwick-upon-Tweed, current and potential users are contemporaneously and negatively impacted by the apparently superior considerations of short-distance travellers in the West and East Midlands and northern Home Counties, and long distance travellers who never touch their economies betwixt London and Edinburgh.

All because of an obsession with long distance frequency that does not reflect the reality of passenger demand or flow.

In context, Freightliner and the citizens of the North East, at least, may both benefit from a different approach.