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Stagecoach Yorkshire and Chesterfield

Stan Drews

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5 Jun 2013
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2,151
To be honest, it's going to need a massive change in mentality before a cap like that is commercially viable outside London and maybe Manchester. (And it's questionable even then) Public transport in general needs subsidy of one form or another to overcome the inherent advantages the car has in the majority of situations.

How we normalise public subsidy for buses in the same way it is normalised for other road users I don't know though.
It isn’t commercially viable inside London (or Manchester) so definitely won’t be anywhere else. Those places currently enjoy huge subsidies not seen in most other places, which as you say, is the real issue. Until that changes, who owns, manages or controls the bus service is largely irrelevant.
 
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psmith2023

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Been told why the x17 haven't electric deckers on they can only go 48 miles a hour anything higher breaks kick in so no good for the motorway sections
 

Llandudno

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Been told why the x17 haven't electric deckers on they can only go 48 miles a hour anything higher breaks kick in so no good for the motorway sections
Could be why a scruffy 14 year old double decker was allocated on one of the X17s this morning, a Sunday when Stonegravels depot has loads of buses spare.

Shame that most of the Gold buses have departed for pastures new….!

I wonder if a further revised X17 will have to be introduced to take into account of the slower speeds of the electric buses on the M1?
 

Teapot42

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12 Jan 2022
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Shame that most of the Gold buses have departed for pastures new….!

I wonder if a further revised X17 will have to be introduced to take into account of the slower speeds of the electric buses on the M1?
My understanding is that it isn't so much the speed, it's the effect on following traffic of a bus appearing to brake suddenly when not even going as fast as a typical HGV.

It does look like more of the MMCs have moved recently - only two still showing and neither tracked today so I wonder if they have left as well.

One of the 59 reg moved to Barnsley and I suspect 15190 may not be back due to an RTA which I'm told caused serious damage. Certainly not any time soon. The odd Yutong makes an appearance during the week so presumably these don't have the limiter set the same.

A post further up the thread suggests work is underway to rectify the issue with the E400EVs, but it's not clear whether this is just a settings change, or if extra testing is required to certify the vehicles for a higher speed.

It's certainly a shame that a once premium service has had such a come-down, but as I was told on another forum, don't complain, at least it's a bus.
 

M60lad

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31 May 2011
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1,587
Considering they were bought new for X17 why have the Gold MMC400s been transferred out? If Bustimes is led to be believed they've/their off to Stagecoach Cumbria and North Lancashire for some reason.
 

Teapot42

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12 Jan 2022
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Considering they were bought new for X17 why have the Gold MMC400s been transferred out?
Presumably the transfer was arranged before the issue became apparent. Maybe we are lucky they've been able to hold on to the 64 plates.
 

psmith2023

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23 Jul 2024
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99
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Mansfield
Not a clue I would have them all to see them bed in at least a month or so as there's always issues with new buses
 

Trainman40083

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Derby
Considering they were bought new for X17 why have the Gold MMC400s been transferred out? If Bustimes is led to be believed they've/their off to Stagecoach Cumbria and North Lancashire for some reason.
When an operator receives many new buses, others come out of the fleet to upgrade other areas. In this case, it appears the nice X17 deckers are the ones selected.
 

Teapot42

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When an operator receives many new buses, others come out of the fleet to upgrade other areas. In this case, it appears the nice X17 deckers are the ones selected.
Looking at the fleet lists, Cumbria have a lot of MMCs of similar vintage, so I'd imagine these will slot in nicely to the fleet.

As an aside, one of the Peak Sightseer open toppers, 16943, is currently with them. As it's gained a local branding maybe it's a permanent transfer. It was an odd one out in the fleet, with the other open toppers being E400s or ALX400s.
 

mk1979

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27 Sep 2023
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Derbyshire
16943 is a permanent transfer to Cumbria to replace one of their elderly open-top Tridents. Whilst it was a popular bus it was an oddball in the fleet and caused us operational challenges being plated as 15ft high.

On open toppers 3 out of 4 of the South West Tridents will see service this year plus the classic E400 we acquired from Devon. 18467 will return too although its use may be limited to late May/early June then a regular working for the high season.

The 8 Gold MMC's are all due to move to Cumbria. They've served us well but when you're due 57 brand new vehicles then we've got to be fair and give up some reasonably decent vehicles for cascade. Shame we couldn't get a proportion of the new deckers in a 'Gold'esque' spec but 1) There isn't a Gold equivalent brand* available although the new spec isn't far off (the dark blue interior as featured on 11716) and 2) we had the option to advance the electrification project to deliver it 12-months earlier than originally planned which we took and that meant the buses came in standard 'grey' spec.

* = when I write my memoirs I'll include a chapter on how we *almost* had an updated Gold brand in 2022.
 

JD2168

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11 Jul 2022
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Sheffield
16943 is a permanent transfer to Cumbria to replace one of their elderly open-top Tridents. Whilst it was a popular bus it was an oddball in the fleet and caused us operational challenges being plated as 15ft high.

On open toppers 3 out of 4 of the South West Tridents will see service this year plus the classic E400 we acquired from Devon. 18467 will return too although its use may be limited to late May/early June then a regular working for the high season.

The 8 Gold MMC's are all due to move to Cumbria. They've served us well but when you're due 57 brand new vehicles then we've got to be fair and give up some reasonably decent vehicles for cascade. Shame we couldn't get a proportion of the new deckers in a 'Gold'esque' spec but 1) There isn't a Gold equivalent brand* available although the new spec isn't far off (the dark blue interior as featured on 11716) and 2) we had the option to advance the electrification project to deliver it 12-months earlier than originally planned which we took and that meant the buses came in standard 'grey' spec.

* = when I write my memoirs I'll include a chapter on how we *almost* had an updated Gold brand in 2022.

Is a solution imminent for the issues with the E400 EV’s on the X17 or will the current situation of diesel Scania’s & occasional Yutong’s be continuing for a while longer?
 

syjunkie

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20 Jan 2024
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73
Location
Barnsley, South yorkshire
16943 is a permanent transfer to Cumbria to replace one of their elderly open-top Tridents. Whilst it was a popular bus it was an oddball in the fleet and caused us operational challenges being plated as 15ft high.

On open toppers 3 out of 4 of the South West Tridents will see service this year plus the classic E400 we acquired from Devon. 18467 will return too although its use may be limited to late May/early June then a regular working for the high season.

The 8 Gold MMC's are all due to move to Cumbria. They've served us well but when you're due 57 brand new vehicles then we've got to be fair and give up some reasonably decent vehicles for cascade. Shame we couldn't get a proportion of the new deckers in a 'Gold'esque' spec but 1) There isn't a Gold equivalent brand* available although the new spec isn't far off (the dark blue interior as featured on 11716) and 2) we had the option to advance the electrification project to deliver it 12-months earlier than originally planned which we took and that meant the buses came in standard 'grey' spec.

* = when I write my memoirs I'll include a chapter on how we *almost* had an updated Gold brand in 2022.
Also when will the repainted vehicles be fully vinyled since most have just been painted blue with the fleetnames on and that's it
 

mk1979

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27 Sep 2023
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52
Location
Derbyshire
Is a solution imminent for the issues with the E400 EV’s on the X17 or will the current situation of diesel Scania’s & occasional Yutong’s be continuing for a while longer?
We’re working through some warranty issues with Alexander Dennis at the moment with around two-thirds of the fleet now in service. There are some software updates coming for the buses in the next four weeks. The E400EV’s are basically “first edition” vehicles with unit production still in the low hundreds at this stage so Alexander Dennis are refining the product based on real world experience.

Also when will the repainted vehicles be fully vinyled since most have just been painted blue with the fleetnames on and that's it
When the vinyl supplier has caught up with orders and we have time to pull the vehicles back in to fit. The only missing vinyl in most cases is the roundel.

I would be most interested in learning about this. I'm a huge fan of the Gold brand.
Don’t expect the memoirs to be published before 2045
 

syjunkie

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20 Jan 2024
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73
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Barnsley, South yorkshire
We’re working through some warranty issues with Alexander Dennis at the moment with around two-thirds of the fleet now in service. There are some software updates coming for the buses in the next four weeks. The E400EV’s are basically “first edition” vehicles with unit production still in the low hundreds at this stage so Alexander Dennis are refining the product based on real world experience.


When the vinyl supplier has caught up with orders and we have time to pull the vehicles back in to fit. The only missing vinyl in most cases is the roundel.


Don’t expect the memoirs to be published before 2045

When the vinyl supplier has caught up with orders and we have time to pull the vehicles back in to fit. The only missing vinyl in most cases is the roroundel.
Thanks for the response, just seemed that other places have managed to add the roundel and writing above the windows but yorkshire haven't added any apart from 11716
 

Teapot42

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12 Jan 2022
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1,136
Yes, as will the ALX Tridents, but they may go out in their current livery first before being recalled for repaint.
They've not been mentioned on here, but are the Scania E400s still part of the plans for the Sightseer?

As an aside, it's been mentioned on another forum that DCC are reducing the height limit on the bridge in Hope to 4m - this has already caused First to stop using deckers on the 272. Will this impact the Sightseer at all? (Assuming of course the reports are accurate)
 

Llandudno

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25 Dec 2014
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Matlock
They've not been mentioned on here, but are the Scania E400s still part of the plans for the Sightseer?

As an aside, it's been mentioned on another forum that DCC are reducing the height limit on the bridge in Hope to 4m - this has already caused First to stop using deckers on the 272. Will this impact the Sightseer at all? (Assuming of course the reports are accurate)
Has the height of the bridge sunk recently…..!
 

Teapot42

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Has the height of the bridge sunk recently…..!
Darned good question! Quite how a bridge can go from a 14'3 warning and being regularly used by Wright buses plated at 14'5, to being a mandatory 14' I don't know.
 

Killingworth

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30 May 2018
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Sheffield
Darned good question! Quite how a bridge can go from a 14'3 warning and being regularly used by Wright buses plated at 14'5, to being a mandatory 14' I don't know.
This issue arose fairly recently when single deckers were exclusively used for a time, possibly due to remeasuring of clearances following road relaying. As I understood it the matter had been resolved and double deckers were permitted to run again.

Maybe there's been a bridge strike causing another rethink? Or a metrification anomaly? The 4m quoted in post 529 above is even less than 14 feet, nearer 13!
 

Teapot42

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This issue arose fairly recently when single deckers were exclusively used for a time, possibly due to remeasuring of clearances following road relaying. As I understood it the matter had been resolved and double deckers were permitted to run again.

Maybe there's been a bridge strike causing another rethink? Or a metrification anomaly? The 4m quoted in post 529 above is even less than 14 feet, nearer 13!
There has been discussion on another forum about this. It appears First are (mainly) using shorter Streetlites on the service currently, and this is causing some capacity issues at busy times. It does appear that 272s which run off the 772 college service can still run deckers though which is odd. The reason the longer Streetlites aren't being used is that unfamiliar drivers are having issues with them in Bradwell.

A poster on that forum has said it's being changed from a warning to being mandatory (triangle to circle) - the usual notes that this is second-hand info apply of course, I've got no way of verifying myself. The Geminis normally used on the service did actually slightly exceed the previous warning of 14'3, but as it's only a warning this didn't prevent them being used. It seems to be the change to being a mandatory limit which is causing the issues.

Are all Stagecoach E400 / ALX400 the lower height variants?

And yes, as 1ft = 307mm it is practically a foot reduction in clearance, made worse by due diligence no longer being permitted.
 

florence

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19 Jan 2024
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Inverness/Sheffield
This issue arose fairly recently when single deckers were exclusively used for a time, possibly due to remeasuring of clearances following road relaying. As I understood it the matter had been resolved and double deckers were permitted to run again.

The use of singles for a time were due to the refurbishment of the bridge meaning that traffic was forced onto the side of the road with the lower clearances
 

mk1979

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Derbyshire
They've not been mentioned on here, but are the Scania E400s still part of the plans for the Sightseer?
Yes, they’re undergoing road tests at the moment to blow away the cobwebs.
As an aside, it's been mentioned on another forum that DCC are reducing the height limit on the bridge in Hope to 4m - this has already caused First to stop using deckers on the 272. Will this impact the Sightseer at all? (Assuming of course the reports are accurate)
I’m pretty sure the height restriction is more than 4m, 14ft quoted elsewhere. All our open tops except 18467 are low height under 14ft so are ok to pass under the bridge. 18467 is prohibited from Blue route hence it will have its own regular working on Red route for the peak timetable.

16943 was an oddball, it was signed as 15ft which is higher than a standard Wright Gemini but we think it was signed at that height because it had a ferry lift. Quite why Lincolnshire Roadcar spec’s a ferry lift fitted bus I’m not sure!
 

Flange Squeal

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Darned good question! Quite how a bridge can go from a 14'3 warning and being regularly used by Wright buses plated at 14'5, to being a mandatory 14' I don't know.
Quite a number of railway bridges in Surrey seem to have had their limits reduced over the last year or so. Could this perhaps be an initiative by either Network Rail and/or some councils to try and reduce bridge strike incidents by limiting even further what vehicles can use certain roads?
 

Teapot42

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I’m pretty sure the height restriction is more than 4m, 14ft quoted elsewhere.
It's currently 4.3m but - at least according to people who seem to know these things on another forum - there has been a change to the way it has been measured and a new mandatory limit of 4m has been / is going to be introduced. It's causing First headaches I believe.

16943 was an oddball, it was signed as 15ft which is higher than a standard Wright Gemini but we think it was signed at that height because it had a ferry lift. Quite why Lincolnshire Roadcar spec’s a ferry lift fitted bus I’m not sure!
I'd never come across a ferry lift before, interesting idea! Would such a thing allow it to cross the hump back bridge at Chatsworth and run to Rowsley?
 

JD2168

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Yes, they’re undergoing road tests at the moment to blow away the cobwebs.

I’m pretty sure the height restriction is more than 4m, 14ft quoted elsewhere. All our open tops except 18467 are low height under 14ft so are ok to pass under the bridge. 18467 is prohibited from Blue route hence it will have its own regular working on Red route for the peak timetable.

16943 was an oddball, it was signed as 15ft which is higher than a standard Wright Gemini but we think it was signed at that height because it had a ferry lift. Quite why Lincolnshire Roadcar spec’s a ferry lift fitted bus I’m not sure!

With 16943 being a B7TL Gemini I wonder if it had the Ferry Lift fitted as most First deckers tend to have it fitted & with Gemini’s of that age being mostly built for First or Lothian outside of London. It would be interesting to see if the 2 ex First Gemini’s at Grimsby for the 17 have it fitted as they are ex First.

I have been on a number of First deckers both B7TL & B9TL which have it fitted & it can be a bumpy ride. The 51 from Lodge Moor has to Charnock via Sheffield Centre is one route I believe that uses the system.
 

florence

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19 Jan 2024
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Inverness/Sheffield
I'd never come across a ferry lift before, interesting idea! Would such a thing allow it to cross the hump back bridge at Chatsworth and run to Rowsley?

In theory yes - when the Bakewell Carnival is on High Peak allocate Citaros to the Transpeak boards affected by the road closures as they are the only vehicles in the fleet fitted with ferry lifts.
 

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